• The evolution og NZ political parties since the 2008 election.

    From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Friday, February 12, 2016 21:50:05
    Along with some other regular posters to this ng I am astounded and disappointed by the disintegration of the Labour party since 2008.
    Lest anyone be in doubt I consider that the National party leadership
    in the general elections and polls since the general election of 2008 represents the best-option choice rather than the superior-option
    choice.

    The fact is that over this period the Greens have fluctuated at
    between 10-15% of party support with no electorate MPs while Winston
    First have fluctuated close to the 5% threshold of party support and
    ACT have maintained one electorate MP. So the difference is that
    electorate and party support for Labour has declined and for National
    it has increased.

    Equally in this period many National MPs have retired but with Labour
    this is not the case. How many remnants of the Bolger era remain? How
    many of remnants of the Lange era remain?


    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Tony @3:770/3 to Crash on Friday, February 12, 2016 15:58:49
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    Along with some other regular posters to this ng I am astounded and >disappointed by the disintegration of the Labour party since 2008.
    Lest anyone be in doubt I consider that the National party leadership
    in the general elections and polls since the general election of 2008 >represents the best-option choice rather than the superior-option
    choice.

    The fact is that over this period the Greens have fluctuated at
    between 10-15% of party support with no electorate MPs while Winston
    First have fluctuated close to the 5% threshold of party support and
    ACT have maintained one electorate MP. So the difference is that
    electorate and party support for Labour has declined and for National
    it has increased.

    Equally in this period many National MPs have retired but with Labour
    this is not the case. How many remnants of the Bolger era remain? How
    many of remnants of the Lange era remain?


    --
    Crash McBash
    I think it is an absolute tragedy that the Labour party is in such disarray. In hindsight it is no surprise when you consider the influence of what I consider to be an external organisation, the unions. Unions have their place and I used to supposrt all staff who wanted to join one. However I believe political parties should exist independently of external influences.
    Without a credible opposition we are missing balance in the House. I was concerned when, during the last election, it looked like National might have been able to govern alone. Some of the strong Labour supporters cannot understand people like me who do not have strong political beliefs, affiliations have little or no influence on how I vote. I do not believe the National government is as good as we should have, the sad fact is that there is currently no viable alternative. If there was a snap election now and Labour somehow won (I don't believe they would) the country would be in serious trouble. I don't know how but we need an option - perhaps you should start a party Crash!
    Tony

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  • From Crash@3:770/3 to dot nz on Saturday, February 13, 2016 15:47:21
    On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:58:49 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    Along with some other regular posters to this ng I am astounded and >>disappointed by the disintegration of the Labour party since 2008.
    Lest anyone be in doubt I consider that the National party leadership
    in the general elections and polls since the general election of 2008 >>represents the best-option choice rather than the superior-option
    choice.

    The fact is that over this period the Greens have fluctuated at
    between 10-15% of party support with no electorate MPs while Winston
    First have fluctuated close to the 5% threshold of party support and
    ACT have maintained one electorate MP. So the difference is that >>electorate and party support for Labour has declined and for National
    it has increased.

    Equally in this period many National MPs have retired but with Labour
    this is not the case. How many remnants of the Bolger era remain? How
    many of remnants of the Lange era remain?


    --
    Crash McBash
    I think it is an absolute tragedy that the Labour party is in such disarray. In
    hindsight it is no surprise when you consider the influence of what I consider >to be an external organisation, the unions. Unions have their place and I used >to supposrt all staff who wanted to join one. However I believe political >parties should exist independently of external influences.
    Without a credible opposition we are missing balance in the House. I was >concerned when, during the last election, it looked like National might have >been able to govern alone. Some of the strong Labour supporters cannot >understand people like me who do not have strong political beliefs, >affiliations have little or no influence on how I vote. I do not believe the >National government is as good as we should have, the sad fact is that there is
    currently no viable alternative. If there was a snap election now and Labour >somehow won (I don't believe they would) the country would be in serious >trouble. I don't know how but we need an option - perhaps you should start a >party Crash!
    Tony

    Tony I agree with your assessments of National and Labour. Winston
    First and the Greens remain fringe parties and National has benefited
    at Labour's expense.

    As to starting another party - look where it got Winston, Jim
    Anderton, Colin Craig, Hone Harawira and Tariana Turia to ;-)


    --
    Crash McBash

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