This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature
of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system
is tantamount to a temporary dictatorship, but
with the dictator, now Ardern, having to suck up
to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
If any bill had to be passed in two houses, both
elected, and elected under different systems,
then there would be far less of the nonsense
and utter rubbish enacted as law.
...
Otherwise, I mostly agree with you.
On 12/2/2017 9:35 PM, Judges1318 wrote:
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.That would mean financing two lots of bludgers.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
If any bill had to be passed in two houses, both elected, and elected
under different systems, then there would be far less of the nonsense
and utter rubbish enacted as law.
...
Otherwise, I mostly agree with you.
On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 08:03:25 +1300, george152 wrote:
On 12/2/2017 9:35 PM, Judges1318 wrote:
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.That would mean financing two lots of bludgers.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
If any bill had to be passed in two houses, both elected, and elected
under different systems, then there would be far less of the nonsense
and utter rubbish enacted as law.
...
Otherwise, I mostly agree with you.
Two lots, but smaller total number.
Say, two elected senators per province, 28 senators.
The lower house can have about 60 electoral seats, but without list seats.
In total, there could be fewer than 100 MPs.
On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 05:09:39 +0000, Gordon wrote:
On 2017-12-01, Tony <lizandtony> wrote:...
She has stuffed this one up right royally.
She was better off being honest.
I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being released....
We have to remember that NZ has not really had any "even" powered
coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party sucking up to
the major party to get an item or two of legislation into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature
of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system
is tantamount to a temporary dictatorship, but
with the dictator, now Ardern, having to suck up
to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
If any bill had to be passed in two houses, both
elected, and elected under different systems,
then there would be far less of the nonsense
and utter rubbish enacted as law.
Otherwise, I mostly agree with you.
...I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being...
released. We have to remember that NZ has not really had any "even"
powered coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party
sucking up to the major party to get an item or two of legislation
into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
As do I; but the unicameral system together with the three-year term and
its tiresomely perpetual electioneering will always stymie any hope of long-term, well-thought-through strategic planning, as is so painfully
in evidence today.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:06:55 -0800, jmschristophers wrote:
...
...I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being...
released. We have to remember that NZ has not really had any "even"
powered coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party
sucking up to the major party to get an item or two of legislation
into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
As do I; but the unicameral system together with the three-year term and its tiresomely perpetual electioneering will always stymie any hope of long-term, well-thought-through strategic planning, as is so painfully
in evidence today.
In theory:
I hold the view that the country is my property, and that the MPs and the government are there to keep it for me and in my interest. This means
that the MPs are my employees. And I want to be able to review the performance of my employees often. Because, if I let them do what they want, they will do nothing for me, strip my property of value, and line their pockets heftily. This is why 3 year term is a good thing!
The strategic planning you want will not happen because the MPs do not
have to worry for long time about elections. It will happen because they know I can dismiss them quite quickly if they do not do it.
In practice:
We are collectively too stupid to elect anyone, because all we care is
fun in form of tiresomely perpetual electioneering. Yet, even this tiresomely perpetual electioneering is at least keeping the MPs aware of
me, and the need for them to pay attention to me, and, even if slightly,
it is preventing them from lining their pockets heftily by selling out
the country.
Thus, 3 year term is not a problem. MMP is not such a big problem. Unicameral parliament is the problem.
On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:57:09 UTC+13, Judges1318 wrote:their machinations.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:06:55 -0800, jmschristophers wrote:
...
...I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being...
released. We have to remember that NZ has not really had any "even"
powered coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party
sucking up to the major party to get an item or two of legislation
into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
As do I; but the unicameral system together with the three-year term and >> > its tiresomely perpetual electioneering will always stymie any hope of
long-term, well-thought-through strategic planning, as is so painfully
in evidence today.
In theory:
I hold the view that the country is my property, and that the MPs and the
government are there to keep it for me and in my interest. This means
that the MPs are my employees. And I want to be able to review the
performance of my employees often. Because, if I let them do what they
want, they will do nothing for me, strip my property of value, and line
their pockets heftily. This is why 3 year term is a good thing!
The strategic planning you want will not happen because the MPs do not
have to worry for long time about elections. It will happen because they
know I can dismiss them quite quickly if they do not do it.
In practice:
We are collectively too stupid to elect anyone, because all we care is
fun in form of tiresomely perpetual electioneering. Yet, even this
tiresomely perpetual electioneering is at least keeping the MPs aware of
me, and the need for them to pay attention to me, and, even if slightly,
it is preventing them from lining their pockets heftily by selling out
the country.
Thus, 3 year term is not a problem. MMP is not such a big problem.
Unicameral parliament is the problem.
It seems entirely likely to me that if we had a bicameral system, then the average voter would vote the same in the upper and lower house elections, and therefore the upper house would tend to be of the same stripe as the lower and just rubber stamp
Yet if the upper and lower houses are from opposing parties, then no worthwhile change would ever happen.
The reforms of the 1984 Labour government saved New Zealand's bacon. I doubt they would ever have happened in a bicameral (or MMP) environment.
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 19:43:29 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>average voter would vote the same in the upper and lower house elections, and therefore the upper house would tend to be of the same stripe as the lower and just rubber stamp
wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:57:09 UTC+13, Judges1318 wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:06:55 -0800, jmschristophers wrote:
...
...I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being...
released. We have to remember that NZ has not really had any "even" >> >> > powered coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party
sucking up to the major party to get an item or two of legislation
into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
As do I; but the unicameral system together with the three-year term and >> > its tiresomely perpetual electioneering will always stymie any hope of >> > long-term, well-thought-through strategic planning, as is so painfully >> > in evidence today.
In theory:
I hold the view that the country is my property, and that the MPs and the >> government are there to keep it for me and in my interest. This means
that the MPs are my employees. And I want to be able to review the
performance of my employees often. Because, if I let them do what they >> want, they will do nothing for me, strip my property of value, and line >> their pockets heftily. This is why 3 year term is a good thing!
The strategic planning you want will not happen because the MPs do not
have to worry for long time about elections. It will happen because they >> know I can dismiss them quite quickly if they do not do it.
In practice:
We are collectively too stupid to elect anyone, because all we care is
fun in form of tiresomely perpetual electioneering. Yet, even this
tiresomely perpetual electioneering is at least keeping the MPs aware of >> me, and the need for them to pay attention to me, and, even if slightly, >> it is preventing them from lining their pockets heftily by selling out
the country.
Thus, 3 year term is not a problem. MMP is not such a big problem.
Unicameral parliament is the problem.
It seems entirely likely to me that if we had a bicameral system, then the
worthwhile change would ever happen.Yet if the upper and lower houses are from opposing parties, then no
they would ever have happened in a bicameral (or MMP) environment.The reforms of the 1984 Labour government saved New Zealand's bacon. I doubt
The usual pattern is to have different timings for elections for each
body, and sometimes different bases for election - the Australian
system has a number of different examples. The net effect is that the
system is more complex and expensive, with little value added for
voters, who see frustration of objectives regardless of which parties
may be in government. At its best MMP can deliver more open discussion
of objectives and informed compromise, better reflecting voter
intentions but also allowing for longer term planning - and at lower
cost.
On 12/2/2017 10:24 AM, bowesjohn02@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 9:03:48 AM UTC+13,Bit of a whisper going about about that
nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/99428573/for-a-government-vowing-to-be-more-transparent-it-really-is-stuck-in-the-mud
I think it is very sad that there are no wise heads giving the PM
some help.
She has stuffed this one up right royally.
She was better off being honest.
I am sure Rich will try to find a way to argue that this is the fault of >>> National - but he will fail!
Tony
Considering the paucity of posts from Rich makes me wonder if he
hasn't given up on Winston's government already.
Pooh
Seems there's liebor and the greens government with Winston first the controlling government...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:57:09 UTC+13, Judges1318 wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:06:55 -0800, jmschristophers wrote:
...
...I see this as MMP in action, rather than a document not being...
released. We have to remember that NZ has not really had any
"even"
powered coaltion Government since MMP. It has been a minor party
sucking up to the major party to get an item or two of legislation
into the house (and passed).
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having to
suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
As do I; but the unicameral system together with the three-year term
and its tiresomely perpetual electioneering will always stymie any
hope of long-term, well-thought-through strategic planning, as is so
painfully in evidence today.
In theory:
I hold the view that the country is my property, and that the MPs and
the government are there to keep it for me and in my interest. This
means that the MPs are my employees. And I want to be able to review
the performance of my employees often. Because, if I let them do what
they want, they will do nothing for me, strip my property of value, and
line their pockets heftily. This is why 3 year term is a good thing!
The strategic planning you want will not happen because the MPs do not
have to worry for long time about elections. It will happen because
they know I can dismiss them quite quickly if they do not do it.
In practice:
We are collectively too stupid to elect anyone, because all we care is
fun in form of tiresomely perpetual electioneering. Yet, even this
tiresomely perpetual electioneering is at least keeping the MPs aware
of me, and the need for them to pay attention to me, and, even if
slightly, it is preventing them from lining their pockets heftily by
selling out the country.
Thus, 3 year term is not a problem. MMP is not such a big problem.
Unicameral parliament is the problem.
It seems entirely likely to me that if we had a bicameral system, then
the average voter would vote the same in the upper and lower house
elections, and therefore the upper house would tend to be of the same
stripe as the lower and just rubber stamp their machinations.
Yet if the upper and lower houses are from opposing parties, then no worthwhile change would ever happen.
The reforms of the 1984 Labour government saved New Zealand's bacon. I
doubt they would ever have happened in a bicameral (or MMP) environment.
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 19:43:29 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
...
This problem is not being caused by the MMP.
This is so because of the unicameral nature of NZ parliament.
Having only one house in the Westminster system is tantamount to a
temporary dictatorship, but with the dictator, now Ardern, having
to suck up to radical interests in order to prolong the term.
The usual pattern is to have different timings for elections for each
body, and sometimes different bases for election - the Australian system
has a number of different examples. The net effect is that the system is
more complex and expensive, with little value added for voters, who see frustration of objectives regardless of which parties may be in
government. At its best MMP can deliver more open discussion of
objectives and informed compromise, better reflecting voter intentions
but also allowing for longer term planning - and at lower cost.
They would happen, but perhaps Roger and his mates would not fill their
bags with money in the process. The "reforms" were very painful for some, yet very lucrative for the others. And this has been done by Labour,
self declared "left", "workers", "social justice" etc. party.
| Sysop: | sneaky |
|---|---|
| Location: | Ashburton,NZ |
| Users: | 31 |
| Nodes: | 8 (0 / 8) |
| Uptime: | 230:25:22 |
| Calls: | 2,088 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 11,140 |
| Messages: | 948,554 |