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  • Changing from the Wrong Direction

    From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, October 22, 2017 08:59:14
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA. The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas
    ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower
    overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing
    share of our total wealth. Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From jmschristophers@gmail.com@3:770/3 to All on Saturday, October 21, 2017 16:01:17
    On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 8:59:16 AM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA. The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower
    overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing
    share of our total wealth. Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.


    It'll be a long, slow economic and societal turn-round, that's even if there's any at all. So much of New Zealand's economic stagnation has been caused by, and is now embedded in, the nigh-on-irreversible way the economy has been run; this caused by an
    institutional stagnation of thought and deed (I call it intellectual lassitude) on the part of those who had already made it into the top deciles - or had been safely on their way to getting there - years before the neo-liberal
    mantra and its long-
    acknowledged socially destructive effects had made themselves felt; this being through the downright unprincipled opportunism and greed that it spawned among those close to the action and in a position to exploit and gain astronomically from it.

    This same morally and ethically corrosive incubus still corrupts and drives today's National Party whose dubious appeal is to the coarse, self-preserving venality of their own kind among the electorate. Such behaviour is simply a reflection of that
    party's MP's own unprincipled avarice and arrogance, arrogance, spite and denigration of which, while always expected of them, they have dispensed infinitely more than is decent, arrogance, spite and denigration being the souring characteristics of the
    ill-bred who look down on and gratuitously patronise those less unprincipled and arrogant than they.

    The direct and inevitable result has been a continuing widening of the wealth gap, but this has been happening in an economy where genuine real-terms per-capita productivity has effectively been bumping along at zero for the past
    20 years or so.

    So it goes without saying that, when the few are growing ever richer off their privileged positions and the covert knowledge these bring, but are **knowingly** doing this in lockstep with zero growth in per-capita real-wealth, then the many can only be
    getting relatively worse off. And that's precisely what we're seeing now with the such as emergency motel accommodation, food banks under increasing stress and rocketing household debt-to-income ratios.

    But even worse, to compensate for (in truth, cynically **conceal**) this wealth
    disparity by borrowing from self-serving overseas bankers (thanks mainly to Labour's 2008 bequest of low government-debt[1]) to bump up benefits to the low- and average-waged,
    is the thinking of visionless intellectual bankrupts. They have nothing on their minds other than to cling onto power and to continue dining high off the rancid hog of their for-life privileges and entitlements by pandering to the same self-serving
    greed and avarice of those who put them there.

    Ardern & Co may well formulate an economic plan from the policies they're now developing. And they may at least partly succeed. But it will not be without the need to combat an entrenched and well-armed born-to-rule élite who will monster them day and
    night while yet sanctimoniously claiming near-supernatural skills and powers in
    all matters of governance; when, in fact, these half-educated dissemblers have only succeeded in bringing every New Zealander closer to the day of economic reckoning, the
    poorest being the hardest hit of all while, as history shows, they themselves get off 100% scot free.

    Indeed, at a time when the increasing desperation and sense of abject disempowerment is being reflected in the switch that predominantly favours menial minimum-waged work along with New Zealand's highest ever suicide rates, every New Zealander knows in
    his heart of hearts that the jig is well and truly up.

    [1] That 'credit buffer' has now been spent. But not wisely to underwrite an increase in real-terms per-capita economic growth, but foolishly and selfishly to fund the continuation of National's deadbeat economic philosophy of statis and stultification
    which, as Sir Bob Jones so rightly states, benefits none but the unproductive speculator and the spiv, National's self-serving core constituency.

    So, when the new iteration of thieves and con-men bring us the next Global Financial Cockup - and they surely will - all bets will be off, whatever the political hue of the then government.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Sunday, October 22, 2017 20:20:08
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower
    overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing
    share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Crash@3:770/3 to dot nz on Monday, October 23, 2017 16:11:32
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes
    Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual
    feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Monday, October 23, 2017 16:22:53
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?

    National are close to the republicans in the sense that they exchange
    staffers at election time, and share methods of election organisation
    and strategy. For example the methods using Facebook for the Trump
    campaign were apparently used in the last NZ electionby National in
    spinning the lie about the $11bn "hole". Labour have sent observers
    to work with the Democrats.
    I agree that on policy both are to the right of their NZ equivalents -
    here Labour are centre-left, National have moved to tbe solidly right.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.

    In New Zealand they are mopre definitive than for a long time -
    illustrated by the priority for National of further cuts to income
    taxes, the priority for Labour being support for those in poverty.

    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!
    Keep this url for future reference then: https://thestandard.org.nz/the-mess-that-the-new-government-inherits/




    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Monday, October 23, 2017 16:27:41
    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:11:32 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >>Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >>parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes
    Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual
    feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.

    Except of course for the last term, where most significant bills
    required National to persuade at least two of their three "support
    parties", ACT, UF and Maori, to vote for their legislation.

    No-friends National have burnt off two of those; will ACT disappear at
    the end of this term?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From jmschristophers@gmail.com@3:770/3 to nor...@googlegroups.com on Sunday, October 22, 2017 21:39:24
    On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 2:20:14 PM UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and National who are both centrist and very close to each other.


    No matter how elections turn out, western democracies nominally regarded as wealthy are, in effect, run by a single party.

    This is The Property-Owning Party and by its very name shall you recognise it for what you know it is.

    This party incorporates left and right wings, fake tribes each with its unquestioned obedience to the leader, the sole purpose of the entire arrangement being to nurture conflict and foster humbug in their varying proportions according to the nation's
    business currently in hand.

    But, with all this hokum and fly-boy charlatanism come salaries and obscene for-life perks and privileges heaped on 121 or so conceited parasites that, were such largesse so cynically self-arrogated elsewhere, would rightly be considered the grossest of
    corruption inviting serious jail-time.

    The same system also handsomely funds hourly lattes and greasy doughnuts to stoke the gross morbid obesity among the female members of the civil service, the latter outfit's total staffing nowadays accounting for, I'm told, something
    like 40% of New
    Zealand's tiresomely self-styled "hardworking" workforce. Not surprisingly, the cost alone of providing specially designed and constructed office chairs to
    bear the leviathan tonnage of these waddling monstrosities is subject to the Official Secrets Act.

    And you pay through the nose for it. All of it. Every single cent.

    But what's so wrong with that, you might well ask?

    Nothing whatever.

    After all, isn't this exactly "what it means to be a Kiwi?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to National was making a return to ALL on Sunday, October 22, 2017 21:15:46
    On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 4:22:50 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US

    parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?

    National are close to the republicans in the sense that they exchange staffers at election time, and share methods of election organisation
    and strategy. For example the methods using Facebook for the Trump
    campaign were apparently used in the last NZ electionby National in
    spinning the lie about the $11bn "hole". Labour have sent observers
    to work with the Democrats.

    National has been using Facebook far more effectively than Labour for years Rich. In fact Labours use of Facebook during the election showed they didn't have a clue as to advertising their brand!

    I agree that on policy both are to the right of their NZ equivalents -
    here Labour are centre-left, National have moved to tbe solidly right.
    Bullshit! Labour has always been left of National and have if anything with the
    leadership of Jacinda moved even further left than they were under Clark!

    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.

    In New Zealand they are mopre definitive than for a long time -
    illustrated by the priority for National of further cuts to income
    taxes, the priority for Labour being support for those in poverty.


    National was making a return to ALL New Zealanders rather than Labours bullshit
    'support'for those supposedly in poverty. Hell Labour doesn't even have a definition of poverty Rich. I asked them THREE times for one and was met with the same sort of
    bullshit you dish out when people back you into a corner over something as simple as this!

    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!
    Keep this url for future reference then: https://thestandard.org.nz/the-mess-that-the-new-government-inherits/

    No thanks. It's bad enough reading your lies and drivel without seeing it repeated by Labours spin doctors!


    Tony

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Monday, October 23, 2017 20:24:46
    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:27:41 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:11:32 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >>>Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >>>parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/ >>>>
    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels, >>>>poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for >>>>the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes >>Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual
    feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.

    Except of course for the last term, where most significant bills
    required National to persuade at least two of their three "support
    parties", ACT, UF and Maori, to vote for their legislation.

    No-friends National have burnt off two of those; will ACT disappear at
    the end of this term?

    As I said in another post National burned off no-one. Peter Dunne
    retired and Labour took Ohariu. The Maori party lost their electorate
    seats to Labour. So who was it that burned off National's support
    parties again?


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Monday, October 23, 2017 22:32:08
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >>Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >>parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?

    National are close to the republicans in the sense that they exchange >staffers at election time, and share methods of election organisation
    and strategy. For example the methods using Facebook for the Trump
    campaign were apparently used in the last NZ electionby National in
    spinning the lie about the $11bn "hole". Labour have sent observers
    to work with the Democrats.
    It is smart for a slightly left wing NZ party to seek advice from a decidedly right wing US party; in an attempt too seek balance no doubt - a bit strange though would you not think?
    I agree that on policy both are to the right of their NZ equivalents -
    here Labour are centre-left, National have moved to tbe solidly right. Nonsense, once more you provide opinion (stupid though it is) with no evidence! >>>The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.

    In New Zealand they are mopre definitive than for a long time -
    illustrated by the priority for National of further cuts to income
    taxes, the priority for Labour being support for those in poverty.
    Nonsense

    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!
    Keep this url for future reference then: >https://thestandard.org.nz/the-mess-that-the-new-government-inherits/
    No thanks, I prefer unbiased sources.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to nor...@googlegroups.com on Monday, October 23, 2017 21:14:16
    On Tuesday, 24 October 2017 16:42:31 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:27:41 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:11:32 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to
    the
    Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major >>>>US
    parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>>>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/ >>>>>
    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels, >>>>>poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for >>>>>the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes >>>Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual >>>feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.

    Except of course for the last term, where most significant bills
    required National to persuade at least two of their three "support >>parties", ACT, UF and Maori, to vote for their legislation.

    No-friends National have burnt off two of those; will ACT disappear at >>the end of this term?

    As I said in another post National burned off no-one. Peter Dunne
    retired and Labour took Ohariu. The Maori party lost their electorate >seats to Labour. So who was it that burned off National's support
    parties again?


    --
    Crash McBash
    I continue to be incredulous that Rich can post such obviousl drivel. There should be a law against it, come to think of it, maybe that will come!!!! Tony

    I disagree - it should not be illegal for him to make a complete dick of himself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to Crash on Monday, October 23, 2017 22:42:26
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:27:41 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:11:32 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >>>>Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major >>>>US
    parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>>>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/ >>>>>
    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels, >>>>>poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for >>>>>the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes >>>Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual >>>feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.

    Except of course for the last term, where most significant bills
    required National to persuade at least two of their three "support >>parties", ACT, UF and Maori, to vote for their legislation.

    No-friends National have burnt off two of those; will ACT disappear at
    the end of this term?

    As I said in another post National burned off no-one. Peter Dunne
    retired and Labour took Ohariu. The Maori party lost their electorate
    seats to Labour. So who was it that burned off National's support
    parties again?


    --
    Crash McBash
    I continue to be incredulous that Rich can post such obviousl drivel. There should be a law against it, come to think of it, maybe that will come!!!!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to Crash on Monday, October 23, 2017 22:39:45
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:20:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the >>>Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the >>Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US >>parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and >>National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Correct.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    Very good question. A lie repeated is still a lie.
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.
    - thank goodness enough of us voted against
    the sort of excesses talked about here: >>>https://www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/1452743951470210/

    National were leading us to a low wage economy, with higher overseas >>>ownership of our businesses and resources, lower education levels,
    poorer health outcomes, and third world living standards - except for
    the select few who (often through crony capitalism) were paying lower >>>overall tax rates than middle income earners, and taking an increasing >>>share of our total wealth.
    Largely wrong on most of your fantasies above.
    Correct. Rich does not do party-vote numbers well - because it takes
    Labour, the Greens and NZF combined to overcome National and ACT.

    Watch as our new government works for all
    New Zealanders, not just the few.
    I'm watching with bated breath!

    Me to. Winston despises the Greens and that may well be a mutual
    feeling. So our new Government comprises 3 political parties - a
    first - and two of those despise each other.


    --
    Crash McBash
    My only desire, politically, is a stable and competent government (emphasis on competent). The jury is out on the new government that MMP has delivered. What disappoints me is that people like Rich have to dive in right now with blind personal and political rhetoric. A smart person would wait and see!
    He deliberately does a disservice to his favoured party and New Zealand.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Gordon@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 04:38:14
    On 2017-10-23, Tony <lizandtony> wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    National was close to both the Conservative government and the
    Republicans in the USA.
    National are poles apart from the Republicans, they are much closer to the Democrats as you would know if you did a tiny bit of research. Both major US parties are far more right wing than any of ours, especially Labour and National who are both centrist and very close to each other.
    Why do you persist in lying about such things?
    The differences between the right and left
    have never been more stark
    Rubbish, they are very close and have been since last century.


    This is a point which needs some emphasis, as it might get lost. The
    National Government supports are not all extreme in their ideas. There will always be a moderate sub group of in any group. There will National Party supporters who were willing to give up some profit so that they country did
    not have rioting in the streets.

    Labour and National are pretty close together. As Tony points out since 1984 when they went Neo-liberal with Rogernomics.

    The two stand back to back with one looking for a fairer country and the
    other at the economy only/mostly.

    We need to change governments every now and again to tweak things the other
    way just a wee bit.

    Of course some people panic even at the thought of this, yet alone it happening.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)