On Monday, 26 June 2017 11:38:15 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:38:53 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, 26 June 2017 08:45:38 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 13:40:57 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:58:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >> >> dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879785
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11880090
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11880303
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879518

and also of interest
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201848765/melanie-reid-investigative-journalism

The Police have a bit of work to do to try and recover their
reputation:
1. Properly investigate whether a crime was committed
2. Investigate whether the Board of the National Party are guilty of >> >> >>perverting the course of justice by trying to persuade someone not to >> >> >>make a complaint to the police

Meanwhiole National has bizarrely allowed to Barclay to stay on as a >> >> >>National MP - they put the vote he carries ahead of ethics and
morality; ahead of the interests of New Zealand.

Reminds me of a New Plymouth MP who should have been removed from

office when

it was discovered that he was inelligible to stand for parliament.

Muldoon and later
John Key were rumoured to have signed resignations from all MPs that >> >> >>could be used at any time

What bullshit, without proof you are lying again. For runour read

Rich's sordid

imagination.

Its been said a lot.

So you say, but you are known to make shit up so don't be surprised if

nobody believes you.

Certainly the strength of control was equivalent
to having the letters

Is that they only method you understand? Is that how H1 and H2 ran

things?

- clearly English has little control.

Reminds me of someone who signed artwork that someone else painted.

- but Bill English is just weak . . .

Good attempt at distracting from Labour's slave labour attempt, well

done!

Try reading the first of the links above:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086 >> >>
It includes:
"It was not just English's worst day as Prime Minister, Tuesday was
National's worst day in nearly nine years of Government.

Barclay's resignation was essential but it was not the circuit-breaker >> >> that gets English off the hook. That is the trouble for English."

The reference to a resignation comes from words spoken by Bill
English, but even then it is a lie - Barclay intends to stay and MP
(and get $80,000 taxpayer dollars), while remaining a lame-duck MP -
and National are going along with the farce, but spinning it as a
resignation when it is not - he is still a member of the NAtional;
caucus!

Audrey Young is of course one of National's most ardent journalist
supporters, with long-time close links to the party.

There you go making shit up again. Dickbot credibilty: nil.

Known close family connections, and history of supportive news
articles? What evidence do you offer, JohnO?

What 'known close family connections' are these?

Father Venn Young (National MP, 1966 - 1990, brother Jonathan Young
(Nat MP 2008 to current). They are careful not to have it mentioned
in news media.

Ok, we can now discount anything reported in the media by Katie Bradford then.

Meanwhile back in the real world Dickbot, we don't discriminate against people because of who their parents are.

'History of supportive news articles'? Again, you are making shit up, and

you are contradicted by your own post with cites an attacking news article.

Just read a few. Like Armstrong before her, she is generally
supportive of National, but is prepared to criticise where that
cvannot be avoided. As in this case, there is usually a small aount of
'spin' to minimise the immediate damage.

These are your own 'opinions', and nobody believes your 'opinions'. Sadly you have nothing else.

Barclay is still an MP. Questions are now being asked as to why.

She knows that
National need to clear the air from this one as soon as possible -
which undoubtledly explains that bit of pro-National spin, but
National must be very worried - there is a real possibility that
Barclay could be charged before the election, and a charge for Glenda >> >> Hughes must also be a possibility. Another reminder of National's
"dirty tricks" and arrogance could make (or may already have made) a
significant difference just before the election.

Tony

And the story continues:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/21/35227/barclay-up-in-smoke
and yesterday:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/25/35873/barclay-affair-what-the-board-knew

It is clear that Barclay is now not the only person in the National
party having potential legal issues - they have all "lawyered up" and
cannot afford to get "off-script."

Asked in a radio interview this morning how much money was paid from
taxpayer funds to try and avoid legal consequences, English claimed
that he did not know as he was not Prime Minister then. If he had seen
correspondence relating to this debacle - and there is no reason why
he should not - he would know. But they are bunkering in - their
lawyers would be telling them that they are vulnerable, and just
hoping that by claiming to not know anything they may delay
consequences until after the election.

It is certainly hard to see why Barclay has not been excluded from
caucus and ejected from the party - that would be a clear distancing -
but it is also unclear why Barclay has had the support he has been
given all though. The requirements for political donations sometimes
have unfortunate consequences - at a time when NAtional is relying
more and more on corporate donations, the composition of their MPs
does get affected.

Newsroom is starting to be recognised as one of the few sources of
real journalism - others hang off the back of such good work, and
corporate releases. Well done to those real journalists who are
determined not to be part of the corporate-aligned newspaper aligned
system.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:50:48 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:38:53 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:

On Monday, 26 June 2017 08:45:38 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 13:40:57 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:58:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>> >> dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879785
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11880090

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11880303

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879518

and also of interest

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201848765/melanie-reid-investigative-journalism

The Police have a bit of work to do to try and recover their
reputation:
1. Properly investigate whether a crime was committed
2. Investigate whether the Board of the National Party are guilty of >>>> >> >>perverting the course of justice by trying to persuade someone not to >>>> >> >>make a complaint to the police

Meanwhiole National has bizarrely allowed to Barclay to stay on as a >>>> >> >>National MP - they put the vote he carries ahead of ethics and
morality; ahead of the interests of New Zealand.

Reminds me of a New Plymouth MP who should have been removed from
office when
it was discovered that he was inelligible to stand for parliament. >>>> >> >> Muldoon and later

John Key were rumoured to have signed resignations from all MPs that >>>> >> >>could be used at any time

What bullshit, without proof you are lying again. For runour read
Rich's sordid
imagination.

Its been said a lot.

So you say, but you are known to make shit up so don't be surprised if >>>> >nobody believes you.

Certainly the strength of control was equivalent
to having the letters

Is that they only method you understand? Is that how H1 and H2 ran things?

- clearly English has little control.

Reminds me of someone who signed artwork that someone else painted. >>>> >> >> - but Bill English is just weak . . .
Good attempt at distracting from Labour's slave labour attempt, well >>>> >> >done!

Try reading the first of the links above:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086 >>>> >>
It includes:
"It was not just English's worst day as Prime Minister, Tuesday was >>>> >> National's worst day in nearly nine years of Government.

Barclay's resignation was essential but it was not the circuit-breaker >>>> >> that gets English off the hook. That is the trouble for English."

The reference to a resignation comes from words spoken by Bill
English, but even then it is a lie - Barclay intends to stay and MP >>>> >> (and get $80,000 taxpayer dollars), while remaining a lame-duck MP - >>>> >> and National are going along with the farce, but spinning it as a
resignation when it is not - he is still a member of the NAtional;
caucus!

Audrey Young is of course one of National's most ardent journalist
supporters, with long-time close links to the party.

There you go making shit up again. Dickbot credibilty: nil.

Known close family connections, and history of supportive news
articles? What evidence do you offer, JohnO?

What 'known close family connections' are these?

Father Venn Young (National MP, 1966 - 1990, brother Jonathan Young
(Nat MP 2008 to current). They are careful not to have it mentioned
in news media.

You desperately need help if you are saying that because her father and brother
are National supporters then she must be. You are putting her down and treating
her like they did before emancipation. Shame on you!

Don't be stupid Tony, I have said nothing of the sort. I am not
putting her down; I am saying that her articles have been consistently favourable to National - or as in the current case as favourable as
anyone doing even a half-way decent job can do. She is a very
competent journalist, and I am sure has good access to all political
parties due to her position as Political Editor of The Herald, but her
long standing and personal links to National put her in a very good
position to see things from their point of view - and as in this case
attempt to cauterise the wounds quickly for them by encouraging
honourable action - or perhaps even by showing that she has faith that
they can act honourably . . . She is professional enough to write of
the non-equivalence of the Labour/Little issue with political
volunteers and the National/English issue with Todd Barclay for
example (the first link above), but even then says "The resignation of
Todd Barclay was the bare minimum needed after evidence emerged that
Barclay had recorded his electorate agent's phone calls criticising
him, and that English knew about it." - but of course Barclay has not
resigned - he has withdrawn as a candidate for the next election - and
getting about $80,000 from staying! That is of course NAt-favourable
spin, but perhaps you don't see it that way . . . .

There are other people in the news media who have political
connections through family, but they are not in the same position of
power - and their connections are more well-known.

I am not aware of any family connection between Venn Young and Bill
Young (MP Miramar, daughter Nicola Young, National candidate for
Rongotai).

So pul you head in, Tony, and judge journalists by what they do - as I
do.

'History of supportive news articles'? Again, you are making shit up, and you
are contradicted by your own post with cites an attacking news article. >>Just read a few. Like Armstrong before her, she is generally

supportive of National, but is prepared to criticise where that
cvannot be avoided. As in this case, there is usually a small aount of >>'spin' to minimise the immediate damage.

Barclay is still an MP. Questions are now being asked as to why.

She knows that
National need to clear the air from this one as soon as possible -
which undoubtledly explains that bit of pro-National spin, but
National must be very worried - there is a real possibility that
Barclay could be charged before the election, and a charge for Glenda >>>> >> Hughes must also be a possibility. Another reminder of National's
"dirty tricks" and arrogance could make (or may already have made) a >>>> >> significant difference just before the election.

Tony

And the story continues:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/21/35227/barclay-up-in-smoke
and yesterday:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/25/35873/barclay-affair-what-the-board-knew

It is clear that Barclay is now not the only person in the National
party having potential legal issues - they have all "lawyered up" and
cannot afford to get "off-script."

Asked in a radio interview this morning how much money was paid from
taxpayer funds to try and avoid legal consequences, English claimed
that he did not know as he was not Prime Minister then. If he had seen >>>> correspondence relating to this debacle - and there is no reason why
he should not - he would know. But they are bunkering in - their
lawyers would be telling them that they are vulnerable, and just
hoping that by claiming to not know anything they may delay
consequences until after the election.

It is certainly hard to see why Barclay has not been excluded from
caucus and ejected from the party - that would be a clear distancing - >>>> but it is also unclear why Barclay has had the support he has been
given all though. The requirements for political donations sometimes
have unfortunate consequences - at a time when NAtional is relying
more and more on corporate donations, the composition of their MPs
does get affected.

Newsroom is starting to be recognised as one of the few sources of
real journalism - others hang off the back of such good work, and
corporate releases. Well done to those real journalists who are
determined not to be part of the corporate-aligned newspaper aligned
system.

Tony

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Monday, 26 June 2017 14:11:22 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:50:48 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:38:53 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:

On Monday, 26 June 2017 08:45:38 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 13:40:57 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:58:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>> >> dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879785
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11880090

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11880303

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11879518

and also of interest

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201848765/melanie-reid-investigative-journalism

The Police have a bit of work to do to try and recover their
reputation:
1. Properly investigate whether a crime was committed
2. Investigate whether the Board of the National Party are guilty

of

perverting the course of justice by trying to persuade someone not

to

make a complaint to the police

Meanwhiole National has bizarrely allowed to Barclay to stay on as

a

National MP - they put the vote he carries ahead of ethics and
morality; ahead of the interests of New Zealand.

Reminds me of a New Plymouth MP who should have been removed from >>>> >> >office when
it was discovered that he was inelligible to stand for parliament. >>>> >> >> Muldoon and later

John Key were rumoured to have signed resignations from all MPs

that

could be used at any time

What bullshit, without proof you are lying again. For runour read >>>> >> >Rich's sordid
imagination.

Its been said a lot.

So you say, but you are known to make shit up so don't be surprised if >>>> >nobody believes you.

Certainly the strength of control was equivalent
to having the letters

Is that they only method you understand? Is that how H1 and H2 ran

things?

- clearly English has little control.

Reminds me of someone who signed artwork that someone else painted. >>>> >> >> - but Bill English is just weak . . .
Good attempt at distracting from Labour's slave labour attempt, well >>>> >> >done!

Try reading the first of the links above:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881086

It includes:
"It was not just English's worst day as Prime Minister, Tuesday was >>>> >> National's worst day in nearly nine years of Government.

Barclay's resignation was essential but it was not the

circuit-breaker

that gets English off the hook. That is the trouble for English." >>>> >>
The reference to a resignation comes from words spoken by Bill
English, but even then it is a lie - Barclay intends to stay and MP >>>> >> (and get $80,000 taxpayer dollars), while remaining a lame-duck MP - >>>> >> and National are going along with the farce, but spinning it as a >>>> >> resignation when it is not - he is still a member of the NAtional; >>>> >> caucus!

Audrey Young is of course one of National's most ardent journalist >>>> >> supporters, with long-time close links to the party.

There you go making shit up again. Dickbot credibilty: nil.

Known close family connections, and history of supportive news
articles? What evidence do you offer, JohnO?

What 'known close family connections' are these?

Father Venn Young (National MP, 1966 - 1990, brother Jonathan Young
(Nat MP 2008 to current). They are careful not to have it mentioned
in news media.

You desperately need help if you are saying that because her father and

brother

are National supporters then she must be. You are putting her down and

treating

her like they did before emancipation. Shame on you!

Don't be stupid Tony, I have said nothing of the sort. I am not
putting her down; I am saying that her articles have been consistently favourable to National - or as in the current case as favourable as
anyone doing even a half-way decent job can do. She is a very
competent journalist, and I am sure has good access to all political
parties due to her position as Political Editor of The Herald, but her
long standing and personal links to National put her in a very good
position to see things from their point of view - and as in this case
attempt to cauterise the wounds quickly for them by encouraging
honourable action - or perhaps even by showing that she has faith that
they can act honourably . . . She is professional enough to write of
the non-equivalence of the Labour/Little issue with political
volunteers and the National/English issue with Todd Barclay for
example (the first link above), but even then says "The resignation of
Todd Barclay was the bare minimum needed after evidence emerged that
Barclay had recorded his electorate agent's phone calls criticising
him, and that English knew about it." - but of course Barclay has not resigned - he has withdrawn as a candidate for the next election - and getting about $80,000 from staying! That is of course NAt-favourable
spin, but perhaps you don't see it that way . . . .

There are other people in the news media who have political
connections through family, but they are not in the same position of
power - and their connections are more well-known.

I am not aware of any family connection between Venn Young and Bill
Young (MP Miramar, daughter Nicola Young, National candidate for
Rongotai).

So pul you head in, Tony, and judge journalists by what they do - as I
do.

Except you have judged her on who she's related to.

You are the most barefaced liar in the history of usenet.

'History of supportive news articles'? Again, you are making shit up, and

you

are contradicted by your own post with cites an attacking news article. >>Just read a few. Like Armstrong before her, she is generally

supportive of National, but is prepared to criticise where that
cvannot be avoided. As in this case, there is usually a small aount of >>'spin' to minimise the immediate damage.

Barclay is still an MP. Questions are now being asked as to why.

She knows that
National need to clear the air from this one as soon as possible - >>>> >> which undoubtledly explains that bit of pro-National spin, but
National must be very worried - there is a real possibility that
Barclay could be charged before the election, and a charge for Glenda >>>> >> Hughes must also be a possibility. Another reminder of National's >>>> >> "dirty tricks" and arrogance could make (or may already have made) a >>>> >> significant difference just before the election.

Tony

And the story continues:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/21/35227/barclay-up-in-smoke
and yesterday:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/25/35873/barclay-affair-what-the-board-knew

It is clear that Barclay is now not the only person in the National
party having potential legal issues - they have all "lawyered up" and >>>> cannot afford to get "off-script."

Asked in a radio interview this morning how much money was paid from >>>> taxpayer funds to try and avoid legal consequences, English claimed
that he did not know as he was not Prime Minister then. If he had seen >>>> correspondence relating to this debacle - and there is no reason why >>>> he should not - he would know. But they are bunkering in - their
lawyers would be telling them that they are vulnerable, and just
hoping that by claiming to not know anything they may delay
consequences until after the election.

It is certainly hard to see why Barclay has not been excluded from
caucus and ejected from the party - that would be a clear distancing - >>>> but it is also unclear why Barclay has had the support he has been
given all though. The requirements for political donations sometimes >>>> have unfortunate consequences - at a time when NAtional is relying
more and more on corporate donations, the composition of their MPs
does get affected.

Newsroom is starting to be recognised as one of the few sources of
real journalism - others hang off the back of such good work, and
corporate releases. Well done to those real journalists who are
determined not to be part of the corporate-aligned newspaper aligned >>>> system.

Tony

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)