• Good ol' Mateship takes a double whammy.

    From jmschristophers@gmail.com@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, May 02, 2017 15:15:28
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the world!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to jmschri...@gmail.com on Tuesday, May 02, 2017 16:38:11
    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship'
    by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has
    been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the
    world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian unemployment
    on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From george152@3:770/3 to JohnO on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 13:00:25
    On 5/3/2017 11:38 AM, JohnO wrote:
    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    In Keiths world the Aussies aren't allowed to run their country without consulting the neighbors

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, May 02, 2017 20:20:33
    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous
    'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has
    been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the
    world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new definition) lower than under Labour.

    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    Wrong, Dickbot, but you generally are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 15:16:08
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new definition) lower than under Labour.

    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 20:37:57
    On 3/05/2017 3:16 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship'
    by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new definition) lower than under Labour.

    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    What a perfect example of your bias and stupidity Rich. Well done old troll.

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 13:15:28
    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous
    'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has
    been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the
    world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new definition) lower than under Labour.

    Dr Eric Crampton debunks your likes, along with a useful summary of the state of employment in New Zealandsince 1987:

    http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/05/smokin.html

    Unlike you he cites the source of his numbers Dickbot, so don't start bleating for cites.

    Good ol' NZ, envy of the world!


    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 14:11:05
    On Thursday, 4 May 2017 08:40:59 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Wed, 3 May 2017 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous
    'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra
    has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of
    the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new
    definition) lower than under Labour.

    Dr Eric Crampton debunks your likes, along with a useful summary of the
    state of employment in New Zealandsince 1987:

    http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/05/smokin.html

    Unlike you he cites the source of his numbers Dickbot, so don't start
    bleating for cites.

    Good ol' NZ, envy of the world!


    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    He doesn't mention the change in definition - but he does mention the
    lower number of hours being worked. How many hours a week are now
    enough to get a person off being defined as "unemployed". JohnO?

    You tell me, it's your diversion question not mine.

    Is it
    one hour a week? Two? If we define it suitably the unemployment rate
    drops! Cue article about great workplace participation!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, May 04, 2017 08:40:58
    On Wed, 3 May 2017 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous 'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra has
    been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of the
    world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new
    definition) lower than under Labour.

    Dr Eric Crampton debunks your likes, along with a useful summary of the state of employment in New Zealandsince 1987:

    http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/05/smokin.html

    Unlike you he cites the source of his numbers Dickbot, so don't start bleating
    for cites.

    Good ol' NZ, envy of the world!


    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?

    He doesn't mention the change in definition - but he does mention the
    lower number of hours being worked. How many hours a week are now
    enough to get a person off being defined as "unemployed". JohnO? Is it
    one hour a week? Two? If we define it suitably the unemployment rate
    drops! Cue article about great workplace participation!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From jmschristophers@gmail.com@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 17:55:09
    On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 8:40:59 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Wed, 3 May 2017 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous
    'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra
    has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of
    the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition
    they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new
    definition) lower than under Labour.

    Dr Eric Crampton debunks your likes, along with a useful summary of the
    state of employment in New Zealandsince 1987:

    http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/05/smokin.html

    Unlike you he cites the source of his numbers Dickbot, so don't start
    bleating for cites.

    Good ol' NZ, envy of the world!


    So you say, but said Dr Crampton is taken down more than a peg or two in the article's follow-up exchanges.

    Here, both you and Rich can cleave to each other with your cold, clammy hands as you sweetly savour the delicious irony where the good PhD, his intellectual rigour (such as it may be) having long since deserted him, is forced to fall back on lame and
    unresearched speculation because - oh dearie me! - unlike his clued-up better -
    he hasn't done his homework.

    https://twitter.com/EricCrampton/status/859596180589756417




    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping
    wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?


    If that were so then, logically, it also implies that the lower the wage the higher the profit. Ever-higher profit is capital's ultimately unattainable Nirvana simply because it's based on the dumb fantasy of some imagined infinity. (This same dumb
    fantasy also fuels the fear-driven greed of the corporate shareholder and his stock-options CEO, not to mention the grubbingly venal property speculator.)

    However, we must eventually arrive at a reductio ad absurdum where the employee
    earns nothing while the revenue to his employer from his labour is theoretically immeasurable-to-infinite - IOW, slave labour, and it still continues with a corrosive
    vengeance right across the globe.

    Today in the 'developed' world where we are told wealth has never been so abundant, it is the falling borderline between the low-waged and the unpaid slave that raises concerns, even for the over-monied capitalist-driven likes of
    Warren Buffet, George
    Soros and Rick Hanauer, all three of whom understand and anticipate only too acutely the inevitable pitchfork analogy.

    In the racket of the howling, gluttonous money-grabbing that today passes for civilised commerce, its just too easy to forget that no wages means no consumption since, for capital even to survive let alone exist as anything more
    than a tub-thumped
    ideology, worker-led wage-funded consumption can only ever be its life-blood.

    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

    (Abraham Lincoln in his first address to Congress, 1861.)

    (snip)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to jmschri...@gmail.com on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 18:03:50
    On Thursday, 4 May 2017 12:55:10 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 8:40:59 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Wed, 3 May 2017 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 15:16:12 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:15:29 UTC+12, jmschri...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Turnbull delivers the classic one-two.

    First he undercuts, then he blindsides.

    This looks like the start of the forced dissolving of a nebulous
    'mateship' by a top smell who understands full well the harsh realities of 21st
    century realpolitik.

    Unfortunately, it also looks like the New Zealand embassy in Canberra
    has been caught napping over its lattes and lamingtons.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11848628

    Some might even wonder what other plans Turnbull has for "the envy of
    the world!"

    ...

    Meanwhile, NZ unemployment rate drops under 5% to 4.9%, Australian
    unemployment on a 6 month upward trend at 5.88%.

    Envy of the world, Keith. Suck it up!

    National worked hard to get that rate down - by a change of definition >> they dropped the rate by about 0.5% - other than that they have been
    happy to see unemployment consistently higher than before 2008 -
    fairly consistently about 40,000 additional people (even under the new >> definition) lower than under Labour.

    Dr Eric Crampton debunks your likes, along with a useful summary of the
    state of employment in New Zealandsince 1987:

    http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/05/smokin.html

    Unlike you he cites the source of his numbers Dickbot, so don't start
    bleating for cites.

    Good ol' NZ, envy of the world!


    So you say, but said Dr Crampton is taken down more than a peg or two in the
    article's follow-up exchanges.

    Here, both you and Rich can cleave to each other with your cold, clammy hands
    as you sweetly savour the delicious irony where the good PhD, his intellectual rigour (such as it may be) having long since deserted him, is forced to fall back on lame and
    unresearched speculation because - oh dearie me! - unlike his clued-up better -
    he hasn't done his homework.

    https://twitter.com/EricCrampton/status/859596180589756417

    If you think that's a take down then clearly you can't follow what you are reading.





    Unemployment is seen by many on the "Right" as beng helpful in keeping >> wage demands low and profits higher - "right", JohnO?


    If that were so then, logically, it also implies that the lower the wage the
    higher the profit. Ever-higher profit is capital's ultimately unattainable Nirvana simply because it's based on the dumb fantasy of some imagined infinity.

    What are you dribbling about? No corporate seriously ever higher profit as they
    would realise it's impossible. The real goal is to maximise profit as the conditions allow. More specifically, return on investment needs to exceed other
    available uses of
    capital.

    (This same dumb fantasy also fuels the fear-driven greed of the corporate
    shareholder and his stock-options CEO, not to mention the grubbingly venal property speculator.)

    You're waffling, Keith.


    However, we must eventually arrive at a reductio ad absurdum where the

    Must we, Keith?

    employee earns nothing while the revenue to his employer from his labour is
    theoretically immeasurable-to-infinite - IOW, slave labour, and it still continues with a corrosive vengeance right across the globe.

    Except nothing like it happens in modern, free capitalist economies.


    Today in the 'developed' world where we are told wealth has never been so
    abundant, it is the falling borderline between the low-waged and the unpaid slave that raises concerns, even for the over-monied capitalist-driven likes of
    Warren Buffet, George
    Soros and Rick Hanauer, all three of whom understand and anticipate only too acutely the inevitable pitchfork analogy.

    Yep. That's why Buffet lives behind high, pitchfork proof walls... wait, what?


    In the racket of the howling, gluttonous money-grabbing that today passes for
    civilised commerce, its just too easy to forget that no wages means no

    There you go again with this "no wages" nonsense. Complete drivel.

    consumption since, for capital even to survive let alone exist as anything
    more than a tub-thumped ideology, worker-led wage-funded consumption can only ever be its life-blood.


    Well done. You just destroyed your very own prior rantings. Clap. Clap.


    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of
    labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

    (Abraham Lincoln in his first address to Congress, 1861.)

    (snip)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)