Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >> >
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to do it.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>do it.
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. Adhering >to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone in. Beliefs >matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic religions in >particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa
- is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages.
How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
On 2/02/2017 12:56 PM, Rich80105 wrote:do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
Digging does not need any qualification. Even you might be able to do that.
On 2/02/2017 12:56 PM, Rich80105 wrote:do it.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
Digging does not need any qualification. Even you might be able to do that.
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 12:56:53 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:do it.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa
<sigh>
No, he is not. And I wouldn't hire a plumber to do labouring work you idiot.
- is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
<sigh> Yes he is, Dumbo. And by the way, you don't need qualifications to dig a trench.
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages.
There's an awful lot that you aren't aware of, clearly.
How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
<sigh>
On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 13:01:42 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
On 2/02/2017 12:56 PM, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
Digging does not need any qualification. Even you might be able to do that.
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
True, but digging a drain implied that it was the same person that he
had talked about in another thread where he said:
"Case in point - we have a plumber working on our renovation project.
He has no apprentice and I asked him why, given he's flat out to the
extent of working on Auckland Anniversary Day. His answer: not worth
the hassle. There is a lack of quality young people to take up the
work. The sort of people he's tried are entitled little snowflakes who
want to be the boss from day one, don't like doing shit jobs, aren't
reliable etc. The few good ones, who are prepared to turn up on time
every day, work hard and not complain get snapped up, and come out
after 4 years of paid training with a valuable qualification and start
to make serious money, often starting their own business."
JohnO may or may not clarify just what he really meant.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:10:06 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 12:56:53 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
dig a trench.
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa
<sigh>
No, he is not. And I wouldn't hire a plumber to do labouring work you idiot.
- is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
<sigh> Yes he is, Dumbo. And by the way, you don't need qualifications to
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages.
There's an awful lot that you aren't aware of, clearly.
How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
<sigh>
Yeah it must be a bitch when you only tell half a story and it gets
all confused. I think that has happened to me a couple of times.
On 2/02/2017 12:56 PM, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>Digging does not need any qualification. Even you might be able to do that.
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get
locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You
can't get locals to do it.
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 18:02:30 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 13:01:42 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2/02/2017 12:56 PM, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
conclusion.True, but digging a drain implied that it was the same person that heDigging does not need any qualification. Even you might be able to do that. >>
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa - is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO? >>>> If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was >>>> not aware they were on the list of skills shortages. How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
Only someone with subnormal reading comprehension would draw such a
me you would have read:had talked about in another thread where he said:
"Case in point - we have a plumber working on our renovation project.
He has no apprentice and I asked him why, given he's flat out to the
extent of working on Auckland Anniversary Day. His answer: not worth
the hassle. There is a lack of quality young people to take up the
work. The sort of people he's tried are entitled little snowflakes who
want to be the boss from day one, don't like doing shit jobs, aren't
reliable etc. The few good ones, who are prepared to turn up on time
every day, work hard and not complain get snapped up, and come out
after 4 years of paid training with a valuable qualification and start
to make serious money, often starting their own business."
JohnO may or may not clarify just what he really meant.
If you'd bothered to read down further in the VERY POST you slavishly quoted
"We also have on site 3 foreign "students" working for AWF. They've beensweating their guts out digging a drainage trench in the basement."
Damn you seem to love making a fool of yourself, Dickbot.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:10:06 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>do it.
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 12:56:53 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa
<sigh>
No, he is not. And I wouldn't hire a plumber to do labouring work you idiot. >>
- is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
<sigh> Yes he is, Dumbo. And by the way, you don't need qualifications to dig a trench.
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages.
There's an awful lot that you aren't aware of, clearly.
How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
<sigh>
Yeah it must be a bitch when you only tell half a story and it gets
all confused. I think that has happened to me a couple of times.
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to do it.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>>
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do,
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 12:56:53 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:do it.
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:55:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
a trench.
So the plumber that does not have an apprentie is here on a temporary
work visa
<sigh>
No, he is not. And I wouldn't hire a plumber to do labouring work you idiot.
- is he qualified to do plumbing work in New Zealand, JohnO?
<sigh> Yes he is, Dumbo. And by the way, you don't need qualifications to dig
If you are correct it certainly explains why he would not have a New
Zealand apprentice!
Certainly it can be difficult to get a plumber occasionally, but I was
not aware they were on the list of skills shortages.
There's an awful lot that you aren't aware of, clearly.
How did you get
in touch with him if he works for himself - I thought those on
temporary work visas had to be employed?
<sigh>
On 2/2/2017 10:55 AM, JohnO wrote:do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to
That used to be the job of the apprentice when I was in the trade :)
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>>
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to
these: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from earlier than thse religions - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to
have a strong authoritarian streak.
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>>>
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to
these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from
earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >religion" is hardly ambiguous.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief inYour religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those withI am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to
have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not
authoritarian.
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>> in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic
religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to
these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from
earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic
religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
itself.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to
have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not
authoritarian.
religious beliefs are wrong), take any preceence whatsoever over other
New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Why can you not live and let live?
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.That is a belief - and religious in nature.
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 @hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>> in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic
religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>>>>
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>>religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to
these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from
earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >>religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
itself.
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to
have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not >>authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any preceence whatsoever over other
New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Why can you not live and let live?
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 @hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>> in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic
religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
On Friday, 3 February 2017 08:09:21 UTC+13, george wrote:do it.
On 2/2/2017 10:55 AM, JohnO wrote:
On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:30:38 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:49:22 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
So foreign workers on temporary work visas are not immigrants
competeing for jobs?
Correct. They are here doing the jobs that employers cannot get locals to do, such as the guys digging a drain under my basement. You can't get locals to
That used to be the job of the apprentice when I was in the trade :)
Yep, that and unblocking toilets!
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>>>religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the expression "I have no religious beliefs" is in
itself a religious belief? Really?
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to
these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from >>>> earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >>>religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
Some of them didn't, sure.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Why is what relevant? You'll need to be specific because your point is lost >on me.
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
itself.
A religious belief?
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to
have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not >>>authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any precedence whatsoever over other
New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Who said it should?
Why should ancient unfounded superstitions play a part in our government,
our legal system and schools?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Where have I said that my views should be forced on others?
Why can you not live and let live?
As soon as religion stays out of the legal system, public schools and public >policy I will consider it less important to fight ridiculous and immoral >religious ideas.
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >> >>>in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic
religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105
@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>> Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>>> in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>>>> religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:21:18 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>> Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow anyone >>>>>> in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic >>>>>> religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the expression "I have no religious beliefs" is in
itself a religious belief? Really?
Sorry, I should have referred to your belief that religion is a
stone-age supersitition.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to >>>>> these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from >>>>> earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >>>> religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
Some of them didn't, sure.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Why is what relevant? You'll need to be specific because your point is lost >> on me.
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
itself.
A religious belief?
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to >>>>> have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not
authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any precedence whatsoever over other
New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Who said it should?
You are wanting to curb the beliefs of others. You want to use your
belief that religion is a stone-age superstition to control and
manipulatethe beliefs of others
Why should ancient unfounded superstitions play a part in our government,
our legal system and schools?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Where have I said that my views should be forced on others?
Why can you not live and let live?
As soon as religion stays out of the legal system, public schools and public >> policy I will consider it less important to fight ridiculous and immoral
religious ideas.
I am not aware of religion needing tobe fought, but it is important
that everyone has some understanding ofhte beliefs that motivate the
actions and views of others. Tolerance is easier with understanding,
and toleranceis an essential element of an ordered andnon-violent
society. You appear to want to be provocative in your blithe dismissal
of the views of others
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:21:18 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>>>>anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the >>>>>>Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the expression "I have no religious beliefs" is in >>itself a religious belief? Really?
Sorry, I should have referred to your belief that religion is a
stone-age supersitition.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to >>>>> these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from >>>>> earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >>>>religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
Some of them didn't, sure.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Why is what relevant? You'll need to be specific because your point is
lost on me.
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
itself.
A religious belief?
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to >>>>> have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not >>>>authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any precedence whatsoever over other
New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Who said it should?
You are wanting to curb the beliefs of others.
You want to use your
belief that religion is a stone-age superstition to control and
manipulatethe beliefs of others
Why should ancient unfounded superstitions play a part in our government, >>our legal system and schools?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Where have I said that my views should be forced on others?
Why can you not live and let live?
As soon as religion stays out of the legal system, public schools and >>public policy I will consider it less important to fight ridiculous and >>immoral religious ideas.
I am not aware of religion needing tobe fought,
but it is important
that everyone has some understanding ofhte beliefs that motivate the
actions and views of others.
Tolerance is easier with understanding,
and toleranceis an essential element of an ordered andnon-violent
society.
You appear to want to be provocative in your blithe dismissal
of the views of others
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >>@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>> >>>>
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow
anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the
Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >>>@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>> >> wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html >>>> >>>>
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow
anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the
Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the >>>difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
Are you making the common mistake that an atheist believes there is no god? >Some may believe that, but I don't. I lack belief in a god. That doesn't
mean I believe none exist. A belief of lack is different to a lack of
belief. The difference may be subtle but it's a massive difference. P.S. I >also lack belief in unicorns and many other things.
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:21:18 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>> wrote:
JohnO wrote:
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>>>>>anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the >>>>>>>Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia. >>>>>>>
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the expression "I have no religious beliefs" is in >>>itself a religious belief? Really?
Sorry, I should have referred to your belief that religion is a
stone-age supersitition.
Some religions were founded in the stone ages. Some later. The expression >"stone age" is an idiom relating to the ancient and more often that not >primitive nature of modern religions.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer to >>>>>> these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history from >>>>>> earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term "Abrahamic >>>>>religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
Some of them didn't, sure.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Why is what relevant? You'll need to be specific because your point is >>>lost on me.
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in
itself.
A religious belief?
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to >>>>>> have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not >>>>>authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any precedence whatsoever over other >>>> New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Who said it should?
You are wanting to curb the beliefs of others.
No I'm not. I'm wanting people to stop spreading unreasonable memes to other >people.
You want to use your
belief that religion is a stone-age superstition to control and
manipulatethe beliefs of others
No, I don't. I don't want to control the beliefs of anyone. To suggest that
I do shows a massive lack of comprehension on your part.
So give an examle where religion - of itself as noted above, needs toWhy should ancient unfounded superstitions play a part in our government, >>>our legal system and schools?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian.
Where have I said that my views should be forced on others?
Nowhere.
Why can you not live and let live?
As soon as religion stays out of the legal system, public schools and >>>public policy I will consider it less important to fight ridiculous and >>>immoral religious ideas.
I am not aware of religion needing tobe fought,
Then you're ignorant of the cause of many of today's ills.
but it is important
that everyone has some understanding ofhte beliefs that motivate the
actions and views of others.
It's important that people realise that beliefs have consequences. People
act on their beliefs.
Tolerance is easier with understanding,
and toleranceis an essential element of an ordered andnon-violent
society.
Tell that to those who want to kill people who do not share their particular >delusions. Tell it to those that want to tell their misguided via of reality >in public schools.
Indeed I have just such an attitute to your overbearing dismissal ofYou appear to want to be provocative in your blithe dismissal
of the views of others
I have no problem being provocative when it comes to infantile, unnecessary >and harmful superstitions. Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be ridiculed.
I'll start respecting religious beliefs when religious beliefs become >respectable. At the moment most are not.Again in your opinion - give examples of people in New Zealand who
On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 19:15:55 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105
@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
That is a belief - and religious in nature.I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>>>> Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>>>>>> anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the >>>>>>>> Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions. >>>>>>>
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia. >>>>>>>>
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
Are you making the common mistake that an atheist believes there is no god? >> Some may believe that, but I don't. I lack belief in a god. That doesn't
mean I believe none exist. A belief of lack is different to a lack of
belief. The difference may be subtle but it's a massive difference. P.S. I >> also lack belief in unicorns and many other things.
A lack of belief does notthen give you authority to ridicule the
beliefs of others, and to categorise them as adopting stone-age
superstitions and of encouraging vile inhumane actions. If you can
prove such accusations against any individuals, then refer them to the
police - chances are they have offended against a law - as it is you
are close to attempting fostering hatred of others solely due to
religious belief - I suspect that is against the law - and rightly in
my view..
On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 19:15:55 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >>>>@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>> >> wrote:
JohnO wrote:
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>> >>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>>> >>>anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia. >>>>> >>>
Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the >>>>difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be >>>>true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
Are you making the common mistake that an atheist believes there is no
god? Some may believe that, but I don't. I lack belief in a god. That >>doesn't mean I believe none exist. A belief of lack is different to a lack >>of belief. The difference may be subtle but it's a massive difference.
P.S. I also lack belief in unicorns and many other things.
A lack of belief does notthen give you authority to ridicule the
beliefs of others,
and to categorise them as adopting stone-age
superstitions and of encouraging vile inhumane actions. If you can
prove such accusations against any individuals, then refer them to the
police
- chances are they have offended against a law - as it is you
are close to attempting fostering hatred of others solely due to
religious belief - I suspect that is against the law - and rightly in
my view..
On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 19:13 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:21:18 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
JohnO wrote:I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>>>>>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>>>>>>anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the >>>>>>>>Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions. >>>>>>>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia. >>>>>>>>
I have no religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the expression "I have no religious beliefs" is in >>>>itself a religious belief? Really?
Sorry, I should have referred to your belief that religion is a
stone-age supersitition.
Some religions were founded in the stone ages. Some later. The expression >>"stone age" is an idiom relating to the ancient and more often that not >>primitive nature of modern religions.
You refer to "Abrahamic" religions, from which I presume you refer >>>>>>> to these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQGud-eg1HA/Ttp1HLmVtnI/AAAAAAAAABI/JjmIXghY10g/s1600/5100_Abrahamic%252520religions.gif
Certainly there are other reigions which appear to have a history >>>>>>> from earlier than thse religions - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion
Sorry, if you were making a point it has escaped me. The term >>>>>>"Abrahamic religion" is hardly ambiguous.
The religions you refer to did not exist in the Stone Age
Some of them didn't, sure.
How do you define "stone age", Allistar?
This is also not an ambiguous term. Look it up.
Why do you think it is relevant to reigious belief by current New
Zealanders, Allistar?
Why is what relevant? You'll need to be specific because your point is >>>>lost on me.
Your religious beliefs are undoubtedly influenced by your own
experience;
I have no religious beliefs.
Your judgemental view of the beliefs of others represents a belief in >>>>> itself.
A religious belief?
I am surprised that you should hold such strong
judgemental views about those that do not share your beliefs
What beliefs?
- for a
person whop prefesses to be "libertarian" on some issues you seem to >>>>>>> have a strong authoritarian streak.
Wanting to curb the spread of superstition and unreason is not >>>>>>authoritarian.
Why should your belief (or if you prefer belief that those with
religious beliefs are wrong), take any precedence whatsoever over
other New Zealanders who do not share your view?
Who said it should?
You are wanting to curb the beliefs of others.
No I'm not. I'm wanting people to stop spreading unreasonable memes to >>other people.
That is certainly your opinion or belief, but you have not justified restricting the freedom of others to hold different beliefs.
Can you
prove any religious nelief to be wrong in itself?
I certainly do not
hold with religious beliefs being used to persecute others - it is
merely consistent to hold that lack of a belief should not allow
anyone to persecute those who do hold a religious belief.
You want to use your
belief that religion is a stone-age superstition to control and
manipulatethe beliefs of others
No, I don't. I don't want to control the beliefs of anyone. To suggest
that I do shows a massive lack of comprehension on your part.
You state below that you want to use ridicule to achieve your
objective of minimising religious belief
Why should ancient unfounded superstitions play a part in our >>>>government, our legal system and schools?
Your belief that your vew should be forced on others is authoritarian. >>>>Where have I said that my views should be forced on others?
Nowhere.
Why can you not live and let live?
As soon as religion stays out of the legal system, public schools and >>>>public policy I will consider it less important to fight ridiculous and >>>>immoral religious ideas.
I am not aware of religion needing tobe fought,
Then you're ignorant of the cause of many of today's ills.
So give an examle where religion - of itself as noted above, needs to
be fought. You may legitimately object to actions, but beliefs? Why if
they do not hurt anyone?
but it is important
that everyone has some understanding ofhte beliefs that motivate the
actions and views of others.
It's important that people realise that beliefs have consequences. People >>act on their beliefs.
Often with toleration, kindness, help to those in need, comfort to the afflicted, etc, etc. What have you against those - often religious
motivated - actions?
Tolerance is easier with understanding,
and toleranceis an essential element of an ordered andnon-violent
society.
Tell that to those who want to kill people who do not share their >>particular delusions. Tell it to those that want to tell their misguided >>via of reality in public schools.
Anyone acting contrary to law should be identified and suitable
punished - why restrict harmlessmotivation to do good because it is
abused by a very small minority?
You appear to want to be provocative in your blithe dismissal
of the views of others
I have no problem being provocative when it comes to infantile,
unnecessary and harmful superstitions. Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be >>ridiculed.
Indeed I have just such an attitute to your overbearing dismissal of
harmless mmpotivations of others who do a lot of good in our
community.
I'll start respecting religious beliefs when religious beliefs become >>respectable. At the moment most are not.
Again in your opinion - give examples of people in New Zealand who
deserve to have their freedoms restricted . . .
On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 19:15:55 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >>>@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:That is a belief - and religious in nature.
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>> >> wrote:
JohnO wrote:
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion. >>>> >>>Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow >>>> >>>anyone in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia. >>>> >>>
Abrahamic religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the >>>difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be >>>true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
Are you making the common mistake that an atheist believes there is no god? >Some may believe that, but I don't. I lack belief in a god. That doesn't >mean I believe none exist. A belief of lack is different to a lack of >belief. The difference may be subtle but it's a massive difference. P.S. I >also lack belief in unicorns and many other things.
A lack of belief does notthen give you authority to ridicule the
beliefs of others, and to categorise them as adopting stone-age
superstitions and of encouraging vile inhumane actions. If you can
prove such accusations against any individuals, then refer them to the
police - chances are they have offended against a law - as it is you
are close to attempting fostering hatred of others solely due to
religious belief - I suspect that is against the law - and rightly in
my view..
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:32:01 +1300, Dave Doe <hard@work.ok> wrote:anyone
In article <b2f79cd9qk6pds7tcg34sojl81b5bgjpbd@4ax.com>, rich80105 >@hotmail.com, Rich80105 says...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:55:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:14:38 +1300, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
JohnO wrote:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/02/labour_blaming_immigrants_like_trump.html
Lees-Galloway seems to be absorbing Twyford's racist xenophobia.
The biggest issue I see with immigration is not race but religion.
Adhering to stone age superstitions should be enough to not allow
That is a belief - and religious in nature.in. Beliefs matter because they lead to actions, and the Abrahamic
religions in particular lead to vile inhumane actions.
I am sorry that your religious beliefs are so troubling to you.
I have no religious beliefs.
One day, and it may be a long way away... you might work out the
difference between beliefs...
* founded belief: based on science => fact (knowledge we know to be
true, but in good science is always subject to revision and change)
* unfounded belief: generally based on faith => religious belief
So a belief that there is no god, or that religion beliefs are
stone-age superstititions, can be proved by science? I look forward to
your proof.
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