On 18/12/2016 1:44 PM, JohnO wrote:

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on
any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had
two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who
had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill
English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to
promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly
more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate
that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given
hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may
stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would
be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>> a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put
himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is
best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas
owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for
that to happen!

No fat fingered typos. Nary a "teh" to be seen. Different Dickbot operater running the account today.

Same misery-guts message though. Slow learners.

English has a long and enduring relationship with his electorate - it is where he's from and it is where he goes when he's not working in Wellington. It

Angry little Andy is from the 'naki but he's moving to Wellington via grubby

English should not stand for an electorate seat. It is ridiculous with
MMP that the Prime minister should also have the duties of an electorate
MP. With Little it doesn't matter because he'll never be a Prime Minister.

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a
continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe
seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's
attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election
confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of
Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are
a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

John Key - forgotten already . . .

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a
continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe
seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's
attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election
confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of
Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are
a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all
those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones
that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all
those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment
encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about
health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones
that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government - with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 18:46:08 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 1:44 PM, JohnO wrote:

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on
any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had
two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who >>>> had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill
English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to
promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly >>>> more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate
that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given
hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may
stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>> to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would >>>> be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>> a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put >>>> himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is
best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas
owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for >>>> that to happen!

No fat fingered typos. Nary a "teh" to be seen. Different Dickbot operater running the account today.

Same misery-guts message though. Slow learners.

English has a long and enduring relationship with his electorate - it is where he's from and it is where he goes when he's not working in Wellington. It

Angry little Andy is from the 'naki but he's moving to Wellington via grubby parachute.

English should not stand for an electorate seat. It is ridiculous with
MMP that the Prime minister should also have the duties of an electorate
MP. With Little it doesn't matter because he'll never be a Prime Minister.

John Key - forgotten already . . .

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on
any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had
two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who
had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill
English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to
promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a
continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly
more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate
that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given
hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe
seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may
stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would
be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's
attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election
confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of
Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are
a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put
himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is
best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas
owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for
that to happen!

No fat fingered typos. Nary a "teh" to be seen. Different Dickbot operater

Same misery-guts message though. Slow learners.

English has a long and enduring relationship with his electorate - it is

Angry little Andy is from the 'naki but he's moving to Wellington via grubby

On 18/12/2016 1:44 PM, JohnO wrote:

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on
any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had
two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who
had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill
English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to
promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly
more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate
that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given
hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may
stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would
be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>> a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put
himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is
best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas
owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for
that to happen!

No fat fingered typos. Nary a "teh" to be seen. Different Dickbot operater running the account today.

Same misery-guts message though. Slow learners.

English has a long and enduring relationship with his electorate - it is where he's from and it is where he goes when he's not working in Wellington. It

Angry little Andy is from the 'naki but he's moving to Wellington via grubby

English should not stand for an electorate seat. It is ridiculous with
MMP that the Prime minister should also have the duties of an electorate
MP. With Little it doesn't matter because he'll never be a Prime Minister.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all
those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment
encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about
health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones
that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government - with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on

any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had

two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who

had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill

English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to

promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly
more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate

that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given

hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an >electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may

stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would
be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are
a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is

best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas

owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for
that to happen!

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 18:46:08 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 1:44 PM, JohnO wrote:

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on
any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had
two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who >>>> had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill
English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to
promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly >>>> more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate
that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given
hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may
stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>> to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would >>>> be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>> a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put >>>> himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is
best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas
owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for >>>> that to happen!

No fat fingered typos. Nary a "teh" to be seen. Different Dickbot operater running the account today.

Same misery-guts message though. Slow learners.

English has a long and enduring relationship with his electorate - it is where he's from and it is where he goes when he's not working in Wellington. It

Angry little Andy is from the 'naki but he's moving to Wellington via grubby parachute.

English should not stand for an electorate seat. It is ridiculous with
MMP that the Prime minister should also have the duties of an electorate >>MP. With Little it doesn't matter because he'll never be a Prime Minister.

There were probably predictions that Helen Clark and John Key would
never be prime minister either.

It has now been quite a few years since we had a prime minister that
was not an electorate MP - if it is worthwhile for a leader of the
opposition to have that expereince and exposure to individual
problems, why not a prime minister? Wellington Central i an electorate
that Natonal should be able to compete for - if Richar Prebble could
take it for ACT, and Pauline GArdner for National, how much more
likely would it be that Bill English could take it in competition with
Grant Robertson and James Shaw?

But then National are runnng scared in electorates where they would
have to get close to people: >http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/87729502/national-will-not-stand-candidate-in-mt-albert-byelection-to-replace-labour-mp-david-shearer

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os >>>going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all >>>those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment >>>encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones >>>that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government

- with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:35:34 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

John Key - forgotten already . . .

You remembered.

I knew the Dickbot post the other day that had no typos was from a different

Dipton is English's family home and farm. As a minister he is required to

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at
next year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to
replace Key as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office
holders are elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs
continues meaning that although there is a solid core of experienced >>>>> MPs there is also a continuing influx of newbies that augurs well
for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.
While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their
safe seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote
support is so low that for the first time ever they may get no list
seats in the upcoming election. With Little being a list MP
(defeated as an electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless
he can become an electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like
Rongotai). So Labour face another election where their only hope is >>>>> new blood from electorate seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs.
There is no reason to think that this will change substantially.
What happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant >>>>> only to National if they need them to form the government. The
Maori Party targets Maori representation and therefore will always
have less than 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's
need for additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment.
Little's attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington
Mayoralty election confirmed Little as displaying the
confrontational politics typical of Trade Unionists on strike - you
either support the strikers or you are a turncoat. So, Mr Little,
to ensure you stay in Parliament you will need to become the MP for
Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os >>>going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all >>>those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment >>>encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones >>>that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is 47% >>while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes the >>sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government - with NZ First either side would
get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:34:18 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at
next year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to
replace Key as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office >>>>>> holders are elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs
continues meaning that although there is a solid core of experienced >>>>>> MPs there is also a continuing influx of newbies that augurs well
for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity >>>>>> required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior >>>>>> (ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament. >>>>>> While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their
safe seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote
support is so low that for the first time ever they may get no list >>>>>> seats in the upcoming election. With Little being a list MP
(defeated as an electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless >>>>>> he can become an electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like
Rongotai). So Labour face another election where their only hope is >>>>>> new blood from electorate seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs.
There is no reason to think that this will change substantially.
What happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant >>>>>> only to National if they need them to form the government. The
Maori Party targets Maori representation and therefore will always >>>>>> have less than 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's >>>>>> need for additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment.
Little's attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington
Mayoralty election confirmed Little as displaying the
confrontational politics typical of Trade Unionists on strike - you >>>>>> either support the strikers or you are a turncoat. So, Mr Little, >>>>>> to ensure you stay in Parliament you will need to become the MP for >>>>>> Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all
those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment
encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>> health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones
that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is 47% >>> while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes the
sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government - with NZ First either side would
get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

Oh, wow! So Labour's chances of election have nothing to do with
creating attractive policies, but hinge instead upon a notion that the
polls are wrong .....

On 19/12/2016 10:34 AM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace >>>>>> Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are >>>>>> elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues
meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is
also a
continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity >>>>>> required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior >>>>>> (ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament. >>>>>> While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their
safe
seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support
is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the >>>>>> upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an >>>>>> electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate >>>>>> seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori
Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment.
Little's
attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty
election
confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics
typical of
Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you >>>>>> are
a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all
those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment
encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>> health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones
that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017


This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government - with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

Don't be silly. You know perfectly well that by-elections don't tell you much.

On Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:36:04 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:18:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of
MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next
year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key
as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are
elected solely by their caucus.

As Judith Collins pointed out, voting for the election of the prime
minister is the only time they do have a vote - she said it would be
the first time in ten years that caucus had an opportunty to vote on

opportunty?

As per usual, when Dickbot posts it is a load of dishonest bullshit. National

any matter that may have an impact on their political future or the
future of the country. With National the Leader rules - and Key had

Yes Dickbot. Leaders rule. Not such a difficult concept for you is it?

two levels of cabinet to ensure that decisions were only made by his
select few.

Yep they elect a leader and the leader leads. Well I never!

Compare that to Labour where the unions get to decide the leader!

In the event that total rule by the leader meant that the vote was
carefully stage-managed - for both leader and deputy. We all knoew who

knoew?

had the numbers at least a day before the predictable vote - and by
only giving a wekk, any challenger to Key's annointed successor Bill

wekk? annointed?

English (who had known for three months) had no chance of building
support. A pretence of inclusion has however forced Bill English to

pretence?

promise a little more consultation if not decision making during his
time as leader.

The turnover in MPs continues meaning
that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a
continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

And that is applying to National, Labour and the Greens, with possibly
more to come from National after the cabinet announcements today. It
is heathy, but especially necessary after 8 years in government.

heathy?

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity
required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could
reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of
the Greens and NZF to even have a chance.

It is likely one of those will be ebough, but the polls do indicate

ebough?

that National will need both ACT and United Future; they may not need
the Maori Party, which is as well for them as with the greater
cooperation with the remains of Mana Party it is unlikely that the
Maori Party will allow themselves to be fooled and bought off for
another term.

Maori were shafted by Labour. National have performed far better in resolving

Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent
Labour party.

On the contrary, he has shown that he has unoted the party, and given

unoted?

hope to many who have been ignored and exploited by National

A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior
(ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament.

Yet many excellent performers remain. National are less fortunate . .
.

While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe
seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so
low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the
upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an
electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face
another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate
seats.

The polls do not indicate that - and it is possible that Labour may

The polls consistently indicate that Labour will get < 30%.

stand aside in at least one seat to enable The Green Party to take a
seat from National.

Makes no difference under proportionality. Even a retard should understand.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There
is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only
to National if they need them to form the government.

And the polls indicate that they (or more likely Winston Peters) would
be crucial to a further National-led government

The Maori Party
targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than
6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

The ability of the Maori Party to retain seats explains why they are
seeking wider appeal through discussions with Mana. Labour have
traditionally delivered more to Maori, and the electorate is becoming
aware of that fact.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's
attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election
confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of
Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are
a turncoat.

Except for National-arranged defections to poodle parties like ACT,
National is brutal to those who stand against a party selected
candidate. Leggett knew he had no future with Labour as soon as he put
himself forward as Wellington Mayor. Little's attitude to Legget is

Legget?

best expressed by the laughter at his attempt to curry favour with
National by claiming that Labour had gone too far to the left for him
- their policies remain what is best for all New Zealanders - both
personally and in terms of business success. In contrast, National
have abandonded small business in favour of larger (often overseas

abandonded?

owned) companies.

So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will
need to become the MP for Rongotai.

Exactly the same argument could be given for Bill English standing in
the electorate in which he lives - strange how you are not pushing for
that to happen!

I knew the Dickbot post the other day that had no typos was from a different

Dipton is English's family home and farm. As a minister he is required to

On 12/19/2016 8:57 PM, JohnO wrote:

I knew the Dickbot post the other day that had no typos was from a
different operator.

Dipton is English's family home and farm. As a minister he is required
to spend most of his time in Wellington. Even a retard should be able
to easily grasp this.

It's been a bad spell of rich posts

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:34:18 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are >>>>>> elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity >>>>>> required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior >>>>>> (ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament. >>>>>> While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the >>>>>> upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an >>>>>> electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate >>>>>> seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What
happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown.
However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os >>>>going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off >>>>donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt >>>>been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all >>>>those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment >>>>encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>>health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being >>>>able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones >>>>that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the >>>>rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government

That is so incorrect. In 2008 National got 44.93% of the party vote.
In 2011 it was 47.31% and in 2014 47.04%. We has formed 3 governments
since 2008 and 2 have gone the full term and all 3 have been stable.
All three have left Labour, the Greens and NZF in opposition. How on
earth can you credibly justify your claim above?

- with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Correct - but how stable would a Labour/Greens/NZF government be?
Compare a National/NZF government (with National the dominant party on
45%+ support) with the alternative that Labour would lead starting
with far less support and it would involve 3 parties rather than 2.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

By-election results are irrelevant because they represent one
electorate only and are of little consequence outside that electorate.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:58:45 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:34:18 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are >>>>>>> elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity >>>>>>> required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior >>>>>>> (ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament. >>>>>>> While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the >>>>>>> upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an >>>>>>> electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate >>>>>>> seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What >>>>>>> happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown. >>>>>>> However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os
going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off
donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt
been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all >>>>> those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment
encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>>> health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being
able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones >>>>> that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the
rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is
47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government

That is so incorrect. In 2008 National got 44.93% of the party vote.
In 2011 it was 47.31% and in 2014 47.04%. We has formed 3 governments
since 2008 and 2 have gone the full term and all 3 have been stable.
All three have left Labour, the Greens and NZF in opposition. How on
earth can you credibly justify your claim above?

- with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Correct - but how stable would a Labour/Greens/NZF government be?
Compare a National/NZF government (with National the dominant party on
45%+ support) with the alternative that Labour would lead starting
with far less support and it would involve 3 parties rather than 2.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

By-election results are irrelevant because they represent one
electorate only and are of little consequence outside that electorate.

All poll results are irelevant once an election is held, but they do
seem to be taken as having at leat a little validity by some. https://capitalhardtalk.com/2016/12/21/first-poll-under-pm-english-govt-confidence-drops-sharply/

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:58:45 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:34:18 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:46:42 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:42:05 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:19:55 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 18/12/2016 11:18 AM, Crash wrote:

The Parliamentary year is ended - and what a year it has been.

National have seen the departure of John key, along with a number of >>>>>>> MPs announcing their decision to end their Parliamentary days at next >>>>>>> year's election. It was interesting to see the contest to replace Key >>>>>>> as PM - a remainder that National Parliamentary office holders are >>>>>>> elected solely by their caucus. The turnover in MPs continues meaning >>>>>>> that although there is a solid core of experienced MPs there is also a >>>>>>> continuing influx of newbies that augurs well for the future.

Labour continue to face a steep challenge to regain the popularity >>>>>>> required to defeat National. The days are long gone when they could >>>>>>> reasonably expect to do this alone - they now require the support of >>>>>>> the Greens and NZF to even have a chance. Andrew Little has
demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to lead a resurgent >>>>>>> Labour party. A number of their moderate middle-of-the-road senior >>>>>>> (ie experienced) MPs are leaving or have recently left Parliament. >>>>>>> While Labour reasonably expect to get electorate support in their safe >>>>>>> seats, they face the real prospect that their party vote support is so >>>>>>> low that for the first time ever they may get no list seats in the >>>>>>> upcoming election. With Little being a list MP (defeated as an
electorate candidate) this puts him at risk unless he can become an >>>>>>> electorate MP in a safe Labour seat (like Rongotai). So Labour face >>>>>>> another election where their only hope is new blood from electorate >>>>>>> seats.

The Greens and NZF are minority parties dominated by list MPs. There >>>>>>> is no reason to think that this will change substantially. What >>>>>>> happens to ACT (David Seymour) and UF (Peter Dunne) is relevant only >>>>>>> to National if they need them to form the government. The Maori Party >>>>>>> targets Maori representation and therefore will always have less than >>>>>>> 6 MPs so their significance is related to national's need for
additional support to form a government.

National's change of Parliamentary leadership is a major unknown. >>>>>>> However Labour don't have what it takes to seize this moment. Little's >>>>>>> attitude towards Nick Leggett during the Wellington Mayoralty election >>>>>>> confirmed Little as displaying the confrontational politics typical of >>>>>>> Trade Unionists on strike - you either support the strikers or you are >>>>>>> a turncoat. So, Mr Little, to ensure you stay in Parliament you will >>>>>>> need to become the MP for Rongotai.


--
Crash McBash

To summarise: Labour are stuffed.

Stuffed? You must be thinking of the National fat-cats - McCully os >>>>>going, but Brownlee remains, as does double-dipton. Living off >>>>>donations from big business, and giving them what that costs has nt >>>>>been good for most New Zealanders - who have nothing to show for all >>>>>those asset sales, local businesses nothing to show for govermnment >>>>>encouraged low wages and those with children have geater worries about >>>>>health, education, and the possibility of the next generation being >>>>>able to afford to ever own their own home. NAtional MPPS are the ones >>>>>that have stuffed themselves for their own benefit, and stuffed the >>>>>rest against ours.

Rich - if what you say is true then how come support for National is >>>>47% while support the Greens, Labour and NZF combined is 46%?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017

This level of government support is unprecedented. So who believes
the sentiment you have expressed above?

47% is not enough to form a government

That is so incorrect. In 2008 National got 44.93% of the party vote.
In 2011 it was 47.31% and in 2014 47.04%. We has formed 3 governments >>since 2008 and 2 have gone the full term and all 3 have been stable.
All three have left Labour, the Greens and NZF in opposition. How on
earth can you credibly justify your claim above?

- with NZ First either side
would get over 50%.

Correct - but how stable would a Labour/Greens/NZF government be?
Compare a National/NZF government (with National the dominant party on
45%+ support) with the alternative that Labour would lead starting
with far less support and it would involve 3 parties rather than 2.

Those polls are before the by-election - they weren;t very accurate
there were they?

By-election results are irrelevant because they represent one
electorate only and are of little consequence outside that electorate.

All poll results are irelevant once an election is held, but they do
seem to be taken as having at leat a little validity by some. >https://capitalhardtalk.com/2016/12/21/first-poll-under-pm-english-govt-confidence-drops-sharply/