• A good example of the farce that is the EU:

    From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 00:17:15
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From george152@3:770/3 to JohnO on Thursday, September 01, 2016 08:19:42
    On 8/31/2016 7:17 PM, JohnO wrote:
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.


    Another reason for any sane country to bail out of the EU.
    And after Brexit the Irish want to stay in ???

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mutlley@3:770/3 to JohnO on Thursday, September 01, 2016 08:39:58
    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, September 01, 2016 09:47:18
    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain
    what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from
    all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From victor@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:17:27
    On 1/09/2016 8:19 a.m., george152 wrote:
    On 8/31/2016 7:17 PM, JohnO wrote:
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.


    Another reason for any sane country to bail out of the EU.
    And after Brexit the Irish want to stay in ???


    It was always going to end in tears.
    The Irish computer industry is as phony as the NZ auto industry was.
    Ireland will be super outraged and indignant publicly and hi five behind
    closed doors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From victor@3:770/3 to JohnO on Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:06:02
    On 31/08/2016 7:17 p.m., JohnO wrote:
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.


    Yup they have really upset the Apple cart !

    You're welcome. :D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From victor@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:23:59
    On 1/09/2016 9:47 a.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html >>>
    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion. >>>
    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain
    what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from
    all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?


    Its complicated

    http://www.finfacts.ie/Irish_finance_news/articleDetail.php?How-Apple-found-a-bigger-tax-loophole-than-the-Double-Irish-681

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mutlley@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Thursday, September 01, 2016 12:12:03
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion. >>>
    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain
    what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from
    all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to victor on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 18:56:36
    On Thursday, 1 September 2016 10:06:03 UTC+12, victor wrote:
    On 31/08/2016 7:17 p.m., JohnO wrote:
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.


    Yup they have really upset the Apple cart !

    You're welcome. :D

    http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From george152@3:770/3 to Mutlley on Thursday, September 01, 2016 14:02:49
    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html >>>>
    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion. >>>>
    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain
    what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from
    all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than
    impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to gblack@hnpl.net on Thursday, September 01, 2016 14:54:46
    On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:02:49 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html >>>>>
    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion. >>>>>
    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain
    what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from
    all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than >impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    Just seeking clarification, george.

    Do you similarly want our government to withdraw from trade agreements
    with Australian China, Korea? Are you still in favour of the TPPP?
    The EU is an agreement between governments similar to those agreements
    - and our current goverment gave additional benefits to Korea that
    triggered flow through benefits to China regarding ownership of
    property - all binding on future governments and hence a restriction
    on sovereignity.

    New Zealand also allows trusts and other New Zealand entities with no
    New Zealand assets to be exmpt from tax - do you agree with that?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Allistar@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, September 01, 2016 15:58:01
    Rich80105 wrote:

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:02:49 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html >>>>>>
    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it
    NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws.. >>>>
    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain >>>> what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from >>>> all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than >>impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    Just seeking clarification, george.

    Do you similarly want our government to withdraw from trade agreements
    with Australian China, Korea? Are you still in favour of the TPPP?
    The EU is an agreement between governments similar to those agreements
    - and our current goverment gave additional benefits to Korea that
    triggered flow through benefits to China regarding ownership of
    property - all binding on future governments and hence a restriction
    on sovereignity.

    New Zealand also allows trusts and other New Zealand entities with no
    New Zealand assets to be exmpt from tax - do you agree with that?

    The more that is exempt from tax the better. This needs to spread elsewhere.
    --
    "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
    creates the incentive to minimize your abilities and maximize your needs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, September 01, 2016 22:44:17
    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 15:58:01 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 wrote:

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:02:49 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it
    NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the >>>>>> EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws.. >>>>>
    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not >>>>> allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain >>>>> what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then >>>>> teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that >>>>> rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from >>>>> all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than >>>impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    Just seeking clarification, george.

    Do you similarly want our government to withdraw from trade agreements
    with Australian China, Korea? Are you still in favour of the TPPP?
    The EU is an agreement between governments similar to those agreements
    - and our current goverment gave additional benefits to Korea that
    triggered flow through benefits to China regarding ownership of
    property - all binding on future governments and hence a restriction
    on sovereignity.

    New Zealand also allows trusts and other New Zealand entities with no
    New Zealand assets to be exmpt from tax - do you agree with that?

    The more that is exempt from tax the better. This needs to spread elsewhere.

    If we were able to get profits from New Zealand to a few large global
    companies taxed at normal company tax rates, I suspect your income
    tax, or possibly GST, could indeed be reduced Allistar, if that was a government priority - what we don't know is whether there is a linkage
    between apparently very successful fundraising by some political
    parties to retain legislation that distorts tax for some entities at
    '�bnormal' levels. The media talks about how many MPs from National
    (and other parties) own proiperty in Auckland (and other cities) and
    give that as a reason for being nearly alone int he world in not
    having a comprehensive capital gains tax regime - unfairness costs
    ordinary taxpayers Allistar - are you payng more tax than an efficient
    and effective government should need to charge?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Thursday, September 01, 2016 20:37:52
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:02:49 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html >>>>>>
    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the
    EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country laws.. >>>>
    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not
    allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou explain >>>> what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have known
    about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and since then
    teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps they feel that
    rather than needing suport reland should be collecting a fair tax from >>>> all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than >>impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    Just seeking clarification, george.

    Do you similarly want our government to withdraw from trade agreements
    with Australian China, Korea? Are you still in favour of the TPPP?
    The EU is an agreement between governments similar to those agreements
    Nonsnse the EU is dramaticaally more than the TPP or any trade agreements,
    - and our current goverment gave additional benefits to Korea that
    triggered flow through benefits to China regarding ownership of
    property - all binding on future governments and hence a restriction
    on sovereignity.
    Clearly you still have not read the TPP! It probably won't go ahead but that is not because of sovereignty issues.

    New Zealand also allows trusts and other New Zealand entities with no
    New Zealand assets to be exmpt from tax - do you agree with that?
    Yes that is correct just as it is correct for many countries in the OECD who, in common with New Zealand, are not tax havens.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Allistar@3:770/3 to All on Friday, September 02, 2016 16:36:51
    Rich80105 wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 15:58:01 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 wrote:

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:02:49 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

    On 9/1/2016 12:12 PM, Mutlley wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 08:39:58 +1200, Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it
    NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.

    This I think is one of the reasons that the poms wanted to exit the >>>>>>> EU. Too many EU bureaucrats wanting to override local country
    laws..

    Apaprently a requirement of EU membership is that their tax rules not >>>>>> allow special tax benefits for particular companies - can oyou
    explain what is so offensive about that, Mutley? Ireland would have >>>>>> known about membership requirements when they joined the EU, and
    since then teh EU has granted a lot of money to Ireland - perhaps
    they feel that rather than needing suport reland should be collecting >>>>>> a fair tax from all the companies that are gegistered in Ireland?

    What is it you object to, Mutley?

    sovereignty Rich. EU countries may as well disband their
    governments and be ruled from Berlin or Brussels.

    That's what is already going on.
    And Britain bailed, France is making noises and Germany is less than >>>>impressed.
    The only one advocating EU dominance of Europe is Rich... why ?????

    Just seeking clarification, george.

    Do you similarly want our government to withdraw from trade agreements
    with Australian China, Korea? Are you still in favour of the TPPP?
    The EU is an agreement between governments similar to those agreements
    - and our current goverment gave additional benefits to Korea that
    triggered flow through benefits to China regarding ownership of
    property - all binding on future governments and hence a restriction
    on sovereignity.

    New Zealand also allows trusts and other New Zealand entities with no
    New Zealand assets to be exmpt from tax - do you agree with that?

    The more that is exempt from tax the better. This needs to spread >>elsewhere.

    If we were able to get profits from New Zealand to a few large global companies taxed at normal company tax rates, I suspect your income
    tax, or possibly GST, could indeed be reduced Allistar,

    So we should harm them so we are harmed less? What a strange morality you
    have.

    if that was a
    government priority - what we don't know is whether there is a linkage between apparently very successful fundraising by some political
    parties to retain legislation that distorts tax for some entities at 'äbnormal' levels. The media talks about how many MPs from National

    And Labour.

    (and other parties) own proiperty in Auckland (and other cities) and
    give that as a reason for being nearly alone int he world in not
    having a comprehensive capital gains tax regime

    Trading in property for profit is already taxed as income.

    - unfairness costs
    ordinary taxpayers Allistar

    That's pretty obvious since taxation is unfair.

    - are you payng more tax than an efficient
    and effective government should need to charge?

    Of course I am. An effective government would not actively harm it's
    citizens and hence would not use extortion to forcibly confiscate property
    from them.
    --
    "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
    creates the incentive to minimize your abilities and maximize your needs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From victor@3:770/3 to Allistar on Friday, September 02, 2016 21:34:01
    On 2/09/2016 4:36 p.m., Allistar wrote:


    Of course I am. An effective government would not actively harm it's
    citizens and hence would not use extortion to forcibly confiscate property from them.


    Bullshit

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From victor@3:770/3 to JohnO on Saturday, September 03, 2016 18:18:50
    On 31/08/2016 7:17 p.m., JohnO wrote:
    http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/and-eurowankers-wonder-why.html

    Apple complies with the law, and the EU sees fit to fine it NZ$19billion.

    To had over to the Irish government.

    Who want none of it.

    Typical big government idiocy.


    Its a discussion that needs to happen

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3063340/a-tax-expert-rips-tim-cooks-eu-letter-apart-point-by-point

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)