• The cost of our increasing inequality

    From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, February 14, 2016 22:31:42
    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has
    increased sharply: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

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  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, February 14, 2016 11:25:37
    On Sunday, 14 February 2016 22:31:40 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has
    increased sharply: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    I see Greece and Turkey have decreasing inequality - they must be doing super well!

    But increase/decrease is not so important. How *much* inequality is the right amount, Dickbot?

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  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, February 14, 2016 11:23:30
    On Sunday, 14 February 2016 22:31:40 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has
    increased sharply: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Inequality has not increased sharply. It's barely moved since 1994: http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Standard%20of%20living/income-inequality.aspx

    Another Dickbot fail.

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  • From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Monday, February 15, 2016 10:11:53
    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has
    increased sharply: >https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?


    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Monday, February 15, 2016 21:49:29
    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has
    increased sharply: >>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:

    ""Here are the countries that missed out on most growth, according to
    the OECD:

    1. New Zealand: New Zealand's economy could have grown by 44 percent
    between 1990 and 2010, but the country did only achieve 28 percent
    growth due to inequality. Hence, it lost 15.5 percentage points --
    more than any other country. "

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  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 00:45:01
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:r643cbp011p9kont80gqaq8epo1cpsig6f@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has >>>increased sharply: >>>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:

    ""Here are the countries that missed out on most growth, according to
    the OECD:

    1. New Zealand: New Zealand's economy could have grown by 44 percent
    between 1990 and 2010, but the country did only achieve 28 percent
    growth due to inequality. Hence, it lost 15.5 percentage points --
    more than any other country. "

    Prominently? Don't you mean first in the list. Did you read the whole report Rich. My bet is the answer is no. Though with your comprehension skills it could be a yes. Have you managed to figure out how much of this inequality
    is due to bad management by Labour? After all the period they discussed
    covered 1990 to 2010 and Labour was in a position to correct that climb for quite a lot of those years Rich. But then I guess Labour good, National bad
    can cover a lot of Labours faults in what passes for your mind.

    Pooh

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  • From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:56:05
    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:49:29 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has >>>increased sharply: >>>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:
    [snip]

    I have limited time Rich. If you cite a Washington Post article
    without specifically mentioning any NZ connection I (and probably
    others) wont waste time reading it.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 14:50:46
    On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:56:05 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:49:29 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has >>>>increased sharply: >>>>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:
    [snip]

    I have limited time Rich. If you cite a Washington Post article
    without specifically mentioning any NZ connection I (and probably
    others) wont waste time reading it.

    Fair point Crash - here is a bit more:

    Rising inequality holds back economic growth -- according to a recent
    report by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development
    (OECD).

    The organization, which is primarily composed of high-income
    countries, analyzed economic growth from 1990 to 2010 and found that
    almost all 21 examined countries missed out on economic growth due to
    rising inequalities. (We take a closer look at the countries that were
    hardest hit in the second half of this post.)

    "When income inequality rises, economic growth falls," the authors of
    the report concluded.

    They explained their findings by pointing out that wealth gaps hold
    back the skills development of children -- particularly those with
    parents who have a poorer education background. In other words: A lack
    of access to high-quality and long-term education among poorer
    citizens in many OECD countries hurts the economy.

    The authors did not examine the impact of a country achieving zero
    inequality (something that would come close to idealized communism),
    but used inequality levels and economic growth in 1990 as their
    reference, which they compared to data from 2010.

    The wealth gap in OECD countries is now at its highest level since 30
    years, as this chart below shows.
    <see link for chart>
    Economically, the authors are particularly worried about the gap
    between low-income households and the rest of the population. "In
    contrast, no evidence is found that those with high incomes pulling
    away from the rest of the population harms growth," the authors wrote.

    "Since 2008, the argument that inequality is causing economic losses
    has gained steam. But the fact that this study was released by the
    OECD has surprised me," Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for
    Economic and Policy Research, told The Washington Post. Particularly
    before the financial crisis, many economists considered inequality as
    a useful corollary to economic growth -- an assumption the recent OECD
    study tries to rebuke.

    Here are the countries that missed out on most growth, according to
    the OECD:

    1. New Zealand: New Zealand's economy could have grown by 44 percent
    between 1990 and 2010, but the country did only achieve 28 percent
    growth due to inequality. Hence, it lost 15.5 percentage points --
    more than any other country. This is particularly surprising, given
    that New Zealand was once considered a paradise of equality, as Max
    Rashbrooke, the author of a book called Inequality: A New Zealand
    Crisis, pointed out in the Guardian newspaper.

    "New Zealand halved its top tax rate, cut benefits by up to a quarter
    of their value, and dramatically reduced the bargaining power – and
    therefore the share of national income – of ordinary workers.
    Thousands of people lost their jobs as manufacturing work went
    overseas, and there was no significant response with increased trade
    training or skills programs, a policy failure that is ongoing,"
    Rashbrooke writes in the op-ed. He also blames New Zealand for a lack
    of affordable homes which led to higher rents and unpaid mortgages. "


    ___________________

    Such is the legacy of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson . . . .

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  • From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 16:08:23
    On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:50:46 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:56:05 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:49:29 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has >>>>>increased sharply: >>>>>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:
    [snip]

    I have limited time Rich. If you cite a Washington Post article
    without specifically mentioning any NZ connection I (and probably
    others) wont waste time reading it.

    Fair point Crash - here is a bit more:

    Rising inequality holds back economic growth -- according to a recent
    report by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development
    (OECD).

    The organization, which is primarily composed of high-income
    countries, analyzed economic growth from 1990 to 2010 and found that
    almost all 21 examined countries missed out on economic growth due to
    rising inequalities. (We take a closer look at the countries that were >hardest hit in the second half of this post.)

    "When income inequality rises, economic growth falls," the authors of
    the report concluded.

    They explained their findings by pointing out that wealth gaps hold
    back the skills development of children -- particularly those with
    parents who have a poorer education background. In other words: A lack
    of access to high-quality and long-term education among poorer
    citizens in many OECD countries hurts the economy.

    The authors did not examine the impact of a country achieving zero
    inequality (something that would come close to idealized communism),
    but used inequality levels and economic growth in 1990 as their
    reference, which they compared to data from 2010.

    The wealth gap in OECD countries is now at its highest level since 30
    years, as this chart below shows.
    <see link for chart>
    Economically, the authors are particularly worried about the gap
    between low-income households and the rest of the population. "In
    contrast, no evidence is found that those with high incomes pulling
    away from the rest of the population harms growth," the authors wrote.

    "Since 2008, the argument that inequality is causing economic losses
    has gained steam. But the fact that this study was released by the
    OECD has surprised me," Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for
    Economic and Policy Research, told The Washington Post. Particularly
    before the financial crisis, many economists considered inequality as
    a useful corollary to economic growth -- an assumption the recent OECD
    study tries to rebuke.

    Here are the countries that missed out on most growth, according to
    the OECD:

    1. New Zealand: New Zealand's economy could have grown by 44 percent
    between 1990 and 2010, but the country did only achieve 28 percent
    growth due to inequality. Hence, it lost 15.5 percentage points --
    more than any other country. This is particularly surprising, given
    that New Zealand was once considered a paradise of equality, as Max >Rashbrooke, the author of a book called Inequality: A New Zealand
    Crisis, pointed out in the Guardian newspaper.

    "New Zealand halved its top tax rate, cut benefits by up to a quarter
    of their value, and dramatically reduced the bargaining power – and
    therefore the share of national income – of ordinary workers.
    Thousands of people lost their jobs as manufacturing work went
    overseas, and there was no significant response with increased trade
    training or skills programs, a policy failure that is ongoing,"
    Rashbrooke writes in the op-ed. He also blames New Zealand for a lack
    of affordable homes which led to higher rents and unpaid mortgages. "


    ___________________

    Such is the legacy of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson . . . .

    and of the governments led by Bolger and Clarke (from 1993 to 2008) in particular.

    The premise that the children of poorer families are financially
    impeded from getting tertiary education and that this contributes to
    income inequality (incorrectly abbreviated to 'inequality') is sound
    (as is the connection between lack of access to tertiary education and
    economic growth) but access to tertiary education is impeded in NZ by
    other considerations not covered in the report.

    In NZ (and probably elsewhere) there are many families whose parents
    consider education to be good only for childcare and not worthwhile in
    any other way for both themselves and their children. They don't
    encourage their kids to learn even when it is largely cost-free as it
    is here. Given this what hope is there that these children will
    aspire to tertiary education let alone get there?

    Some years ago I remember Sir Pita Sharples (before his days as an MP)
    outlined the significant CULTURAL (as well as financial) barriers he
    faced to going on to tertiary education. I have had a brief look
    online for a biography that covers this but could only find
    biographies that summarised his early life but detailed to his (later) political life.

    These non-financial barriers are harder to fix (the financial ones are
    hard enough) and the report cited did not mention non-financial
    barriers to tertiary education.

    Rich, if you are interested in the substance of income inequality and
    the associated access to tertiary education from children who grow up
    in low-income families, what solutions do you propose? Note that you
    must include measures that will allow children to aspire to tertiary
    education in the face of parental opposition.



    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Friday, February 19, 2016 22:13:27
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6qt4cbh5ubvoggql4f66g62v9l3eb0m79n@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:56:05 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:49:29 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:11:53 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:31:42 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

    This only covers the period to 2010, - since then inequality has >>>>>increased sharply: >>>>>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/01/05/how-inequality-made-these-western-countries-poorer/?postshare=3451455311226652&tid=ss_fb

    Why post this in nz.general with no linkage to NZ?

    Read the article - New Zealand features prominently - for example:
    [snip]

    I have limited time Rich. If you cite a Washington Post article
    without specifically mentioning any NZ connection I (and probably
    others) wont waste time reading it.

    Fair point Crash - here is a bit more:

    Rising inequality holds back economic growth -- according to a recent
    report by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development
    (OECD).

    The organization, which is primarily composed of high-income
    countries, analyzed economic growth from 1990 to 2010 and found that
    almost all 21 examined countries missed out on economic growth due to
    rising inequalities. (We take a closer look at the countries that were hardest hit in the second half of this post.)

    "When income inequality rises, economic growth falls," the authors of
    the report concluded.

    They explained their findings by pointing out that wealth gaps hold
    back the skills development of children -- particularly those with
    parents who have a poorer education background. In other words: A lack
    of access to high-quality and long-term education among poorer
    citizens in many OECD countries hurts the economy.

    The authors did not examine the impact of a country achieving zero
    inequality (something that would come close to idealized communism),
    but used inequality levels and economic growth in 1990 as their
    reference, which they compared to data from 2010.

    The wealth gap in OECD countries is now at its highest level since 30
    years, as this chart below shows.
    <see link for chart>
    Economically, the authors are particularly worried about the gap
    between low-income households and the rest of the population. "In
    contrast, no evidence is found that those with high incomes pulling
    away from the rest of the population harms growth," the authors wrote.

    "Since 2008, the argument that inequality is causing economic losses
    has gained steam. But the fact that this study was released by the
    OECD has surprised me," Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for
    Economic and Policy Research, told The Washington Post. Particularly
    before the financial crisis, many economists considered inequality as
    a useful corollary to economic growth -- an assumption the recent OECD
    study tries to rebuke.

    Here are the countries that missed out on most growth, according to
    the OECD:

    1. New Zealand: New Zealand's economy could have grown by 44 percent
    between 1990 and 2010, but the country did only achieve 28 percent
    growth due to inequality. Hence, it lost 15.5 percentage points --
    more than any other country. This is particularly surprising, given
    that New Zealand was once considered a paradise of equality, as Max Rashbrooke, the author of a book called Inequality: A New Zealand
    Crisis, pointed out in the Guardian newspaper.

    "New Zealand halved its top tax rate, cut benefits by up to a quarter
    of their value, and dramatically reduced the bargaining power - and
    therefore the share of national income - of ordinary workers.
    Thousands of people lost their jobs as manufacturing work went
    overseas, and there was no significant response with increased trade
    training or skills programs, a policy failure that is ongoing,"
    Rashbrooke writes in the op-ed. He also blames New Zealand for a lack
    of affordable homes which led to higher rents and unpaid mortgages. "


    ___________________

    Such is the legacy of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson . . . .


    Helen Clark and every government prior to 2010 Rich. Did you notice the date Rich? Did you realise it was two years after nine years of your glorious
    Labour party. Did you notice inequality didn't even stop or even slow down
    in it's rise to the 2010 levels? Do you know what the hell is realy going on
    in the world Rich? Don't bother answering. We all know the answer is no or
    not a bloody clue as usual.

    Pooh

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