This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

"Housing New Zealand is being accused of causing homelessness by
evicting people who can't get rehoused anywhere else.

The Tenancy Tribunal made 1430 orders involving Housing NZ last year,
an average of 27 a week, and 717, or an average of 36 a week, so far
this year up to May 16.

Auckland Action Against Poverty advocacy co-ordinator Alastair Russell
said the state-owned agency, which exists to house people who can't
get housed elsewhere, was "pursuing an aggressive policy of eviction
based on non-payment of rent".

In one case, he said, a mother of a 7-month-old baby faced eviction
today over $666 in rent arrears due to being placed on a sickness
benefit instead of a sole parent benefit after the baby was born. Work
and Income agreed to pay the arrears after Mr Russell intervened.

"We are seeing cases where people are increasingly being charged
market rent, for example when they don't fill in the yearly returns
[reporting their incomes].

"Then Housing NZ says they have accrued rent arrears and will
automatically take them to the Tenancy Tribunal, and we are having to
intervene on their behalf.

"They are not talking to Work and Income to resolve people's issues
through Work and Income assistance which could maintain their housing.

"They are acting without a shred of social responsibility and
callously locking people out on the street for very minimal reasons,
and actually causing people to become homeless."

Other housing advocates said problems started when Housing NZ staff
were told in August 2011 to "stop delivering social services", and
worsened since social housing rent assessments moved to Work and
Income in April 2014.

Sister Anne Hurley of the Sisters of Mercy at Wiri said state houses
in Wiri were now changing hands every few months as successive tenants
were evicted.

A Housing NZ spokeswoman said eviction was still "a last resort" after
making "numerous and significant attempts to engage with the tenant,
including providing options to pay the arrears in small, regular
payments."

Ministry of Social Development Associate National Commissioner Te
Rehia Papesch said the ministry had set up a new provider line so a
three-way conversation can be had between client, their tenancy
manager and central unit housing staff to talk about any issues about income-related rent.

Refugees caught in government housing mix-up
Two refugee households in Hamilton have been threatened with eviction
by Housing NZ due to rent arrears caused by two parts of Work and
Income not talking to each other.

The agency has applied to the Tenancy Tribunal to terminate the
tenancy of Ethiopian refugee Fatuma Ali, 41, unless she pays $735 in
rent arrears that arose after her husband left her and went to
Australia, leaving her alone with two children.

The agency's branch at Five Cross Roads in Hamilton granted her a sole
parent benefit a year ago. But its housing assessment unit in Auckland
put her rent up from $109 to $284 a week because her ex-husband's name
was still on the tenancy agreement and she had not supplied
information about his income.

In the other case, two young Eritrean refugees, Muhyaddin Salih, 36,
and Idrees Idrees, 30, faced a tribunal hearing on June 16 to end
their tenancy for $2601 in rent arrears arising from their rent rising
to $345 a week when both men were working, but not being reduced again
when Mr Idrees' job ended after a 90-day trial.

Community Law Waikato stepped in to get Work and Income to reduce the
men's rent to $140 a week and pay the arrears last Thursday, after the
Herald asked about the case. HNZ has now withdrawn its eviction
notice.

Ministry of Social Development associate national commissioner Te
Rehia Papesch said the ministry was "still trying to get in touch with
Mrs Ali so we can sort her issues out".

But Angela Smith of Community Law Waikato said she had previously been
unable to get any response from the ministry's housing unit even after
she supplied a release of tenancy signed by Mrs Ali's ex-husband in
April.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do about it? What is the best way?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay their rent.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 13 Jun 2016 05:28:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@clear.net.nz> wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why are >they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do about it? >What is the best way?

Did you read the article - most of the examples were where the Housing Corporation did not check with WINZ, who had stuffed up. So teh answer
to your question would be to have WINZ do their job, but also for
Housing Corporation to recognise that just a few of their houses will
have WINZ "clients" as residents. In other words, have National
Ministers take their job seriously and follow up on the reasons why
things are going wrong so consistently.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

For Housing Corporation to make 27 applications to the Tenancy
Tribunal last year, and have that increase to an average of 36 a week
for the year so far indicates that the Housing Corporation is not
checking at all with WINZ - even refugees are getting kicked out
through WINZ problems!

For another assessment of what is going wrong, see: http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/the-problem-not-solution.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 13 Jun 2016 05:28:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@clear.net.nz> wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why are >they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do about it? >What is the best way?

Methamphetamine?

Bill.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the
rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why
are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do
about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay
their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's called "compassion" and is something the current breed of politics doesn't
understand.
--
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
creates the incentive to minimize your abilities and maximize your needs.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:08:41 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the
rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why
are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do
about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay
their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's called >"compassion" and is something the current breed of politics doesn't >understand.

Would that be progress do you think Allistar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse http://www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/victorians/workhouses.html http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/condwkhs.htm

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:08:41 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of >>>> > National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took >>>> > an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore >>>> > the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the
rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why >>>> are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do
about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay
their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's
called "compassion" and is something the current breed of politics doesn't >>understand.

Would that be progress do you think Allistar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse http://www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/victorians/workhouses.html http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/condwkhs.htm

What in particular are you referring to? I would think that being given employment and accommodation would be better than having neither of those things.
--
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
creates the incentive to minimize your abilities and maximize your needs.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:40:42 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:08:41 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of >>>>> > National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand, >>>>> > and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took >>>>> > an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore >>>>> > the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social >>>>> > housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the >>>>> rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why >>>>> are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do >>>>> about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay >>>> their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's >>>called "compassion" and is something the current breed of politics doesn't >>>understand.

Would that be progress do you think Allistar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse
http://www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/victorians/workhouses.html
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/condwkhs.htm

What in particular are you referring to? I would think that being given >employment and accommodation would be better than having neither of those >things.

Read the article, Allistar - there is nothing there about anyone being
given employment; it is about people having accomodation removed
because of problems in WINZ with their benefits that would enable them
to pay the rent - this is a case of one part of government not talking
to another part of government. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

Who are you referring to that is being given employment?
Do you understand that wrongly taking accomodation away from people
(including refugees) is not exactly helping anyone - unless you
think that churning people from no accomodation to a Housing
Corporation house and back to no accomodation is helping somehow?

Workhouses were expensive, mostly because they relied on charitable contributions rather than being structured provisions by government.
They were effectively imprisonment accompanied by slow starvation.

Does your statement mean that you think government _should_ be giving
more people empolyment and accomodation?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:40:42 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:08:41 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part >>>>>> > of National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New
Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just
took an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff >>>>>> > ignore the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide >>>>>> > social housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the >>>>>> rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is >>>>>> why are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should >>>>>> we do about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay >>>>> their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's >>>>called "compassion" and is something the current breed of politics >>>>doesn't understand.

Would that be progress do you think Allistar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse
http://www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/victorians/workhouses.html
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/condwkhs.htm

What in particular are you referring to? I would think that being given >>employment and accommodation would be better than having neither of those >>things.

Read the article, Allistar - there is nothing there about anyone being
given employment; it is about people having accomodation removed
because of problems in WINZ with their benefits that would enable them
to pay the rent - this is a case of one part of government not talking
to another part of government. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

Who are you referring to that is being given employment?

You pasted three links about work houses. Why did you do that if you weren't referring to people being given accommodation and employment?

Do you understand that wrongly taking accomodation away from people (including refugees) is not exactly helping anyone - unless you
think that churning people from no accomodation to a Housing
Corporation house and back to no accomodation is helping somehow?

It's not their accommodation. They don't own it nor do they pay their own
money to rent it. They are effectively squatters.

Workhouses were expensive, mostly because they relied on charitable contributions rather than being structured provisions by government.

How does relying on voluntary charity make then more expensive than relying
on property confiscation via taxation?

They were effectively imprisonment accompanied by slow starvation.

People were not held there against their will.

Does your statement mean that you think government _should_ be giving
more people empolyment and accomodation?

Giving? No.
--
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
creates the incentive to minimize your abilities and maximize your needs.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:44:30 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:40:42 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:08:41 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

JohnO wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 17:28:31 UTC+12, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part >>>>>>> > of National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New
Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just >>>>>>> > took an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff >>>>>>> > ignore the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide >>>>>>> > social housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the >>>>>>> rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is >>>>>>> why are they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should >>>>>>> we do about it? What is the best way?

Why is it up to the country? There will always be people who can't pay >>>>>> their rent.

Finally a common sense answer.

It could be argued that those that care can help as they can. That's >>>>>called "compassion" and is something the current breed of politics >>>>>doesn't understand.

Would that be progress do you think Allistar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse
http://www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/victorians/workhouses.html
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/condwkhs.htm

What in particular are you referring to? I would think that being given >>>employment and accommodation would be better than having neither of those >>>things.

Read the article, Allistar - there is nothing there about anyone being
given employment; it is about people having accomodation removed
because of problems in WINZ with their benefits that would enable them
to pay the rent - this is a case of one part of government not talking
to another part of government.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

Who are you referring to that is being given employment?

You pasted three links about work houses. Why did you do that if you weren't >referring to people being given accommodation and employment?

Sorry I thought you meant paid employment - workhouse residents were
not paid.

Do you understand that wrongly taking accomodation away from people
(including refugees) is not exactly helping anyone - unless you
think that churning people from no accomodation to a Housing
Corporation house and back to no accomodation is helping somehow?

It's not their accommodation. They don't own it nor do they pay their own >money to rent it. They are effectively squatters.

They had a tenancy wittht he government, and another part of
govcernmetn was providing them with sufficient income to pay the rent.
Then one part of the government wrongly withdrew the income, and as a
result the other part of government removed them from their
accomodation. Does that seem fair to you, Allistar?

Workhouses were expensive, mostly because they relied on charitable
contributions rather than being structured provisions by government.

How does relying on voluntary charity make then more expensive than relying >on property confiscation via taxation?

Because it was inconsistent and in some cases killed the residents
more quickly than in other cases. any communities were not able to
afford a workhouse, so people starved even more quickly.

They were effectively imprisonment accompanied by slow starvation.

People were not held there against their will.

Where else could they go? The majority of adults never left.

Does your statement mean that you think government _should_ be giving
more people empolyment and accomodation?

Giving? No.

Yet you said "I would think that being given employment and
accommodation would be better than having neither of those
things."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

"Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:cgkslbps2guue4fk847h332adodr8gbipe@4ax.com...

On 13 Jun 2016 05:28:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@clear.net.nz> wrote:

On 2016-06-12, Rich80105 <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

This is either deliberate callousness or incompetence on the part of
National - they have deliberately hollowed out Housing New Zealand,
and failed to ensure that Housng Corp talk to WINZ - they just took
an ideological decision to insist that the Housing Corp staff ignore
the purpose of the organisation which used to be to provide social
housing!

I have no problem with tenants getting evicted if they do not pay the
rent.

The difficult question, although are not able to see it as such, is why
are
they not able to pay the rent, and what as a country should we do about
it?
What is the best way?

Did you read the article - most of the examples were where the Housing Corporation did not check with WINZ, who had stuffed up. So teh answer
to your question would be to have WINZ do their job, but also for
Housing Corporation to recognise that just a few of their houses will
have WINZ "clients" as residents. In other words, have National
Ministers take their job seriously and follow up on the reasons why
things are going wrong so consistently.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11655261

For Housing Corporation to make 27 applications to the Tenancy
Tribunal last year, and have that increase to an average of 36 a week
for the year so far indicates that the Housing Corporation is not
checking at all with WINZ - even refugees are getting kicked out
through WINZ problems!

For another assessment of what is going wrong, see: http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/the-problem-not-solution.html

Oh well done Dicky. Another suspect souce to backup your pointless
repetition of only the facts that fit your narrow minded and marxist
attitude to the problem.

Interesting how you blame the government when things go wrong but have never addressed any of Labours current or past ballsups:)

Pooh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)