Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying" http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
On 3/06/2016 10:58 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:Wrong thread, Fred - desperation getting to you?
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,Speaking of wrong advice, how's your mate Little getting on with Hagaman?
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 08:45:15 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/06/2016 10:58 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,Speaking of wrong advice, how's your mate Little getting on with Hagaman? >Wrong thread, Fred - desperation getting to you?
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:09:36 +1200, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:<snip>
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 08:45:15 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/06/2016 10:58 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
Wrong thread, Fred - desperation getting to you?
So not very well then.
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying" http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and >gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic and >talking snakes be taken seriously?
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:05:12 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and >>gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic and >>talking snakes be taken seriously?
The Salvation Army are one of New Zealands most charitable
institutions, along with other churches. You normally support charity
rather than government intervention, Allistar. They certainly do not
deserve your accusation of being untruthful - indeed their correction
to John Key has been supported by the relevant ministry.
Your condemnation of an organisation becasue of a religious belief
their members hold is most anti-libertarian
- I would have expected
you to understand that it is not necessary for you to share their
beliefs to appreciate other things that they do.
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>> they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>> they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>> they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Rich80105 wrote:To say "I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously." as
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:05:12 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>>they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and >>>gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic and >>>talking snakes be taken seriously?
The Salvation Army are one of New Zealands most charitable
institutions, along with other churches. You normally support charity
rather than government intervention, Allistar. They certainly do not
deserve your accusation of being untruthful - indeed their correction
to John Key has been supported by the relevant ministry.
My accusation of them being untruthful is founded in their superstitious >belief system. One that denies women their right to be equals with men. One >that is the source of many of todays woes.
Your condemnation of an organisation becasue of a religious belief
their members hold is most anti-libertarian
I haven't condemned them. This is yet another example of you putting words
in other people's mouths. It's most dishonest.
- I would have expected
you to understand that it is not necessary for you to share their
beliefs to appreciate other things that they do.
I do appreciate the things they do. You make it sound like I don't. Again, >more dishonesty on your part.
For someone to believe such nutty things shows a lack of understanding of
the real world. Believing in talking donkeys, snakes and other such nonsense >leads me to distrust other things they say.
I am not ridiculing people. I am ridiculing ideas. Ridiculous ideas deserve >ridicule.
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>>> they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and >>>>> they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>>>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
We have moved on.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>>>>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
Fred
There is two parts to this discussion
First Part
Is there a God. We don't know and it can't be proven if there is or not. But walk around the likes of Saint Pauls in london.
Inspired by god I would go along with that.
Secound part
God will save you, Repent your sins, drink is evil.
along with a doz or so fairytales in the bible
is all unadulterated crap.
Now the Salvation army do some real good in the community.
should they be condemned because they have a hocus pocus division?
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
On 6/06/2016 3:56 p.m., Newsman wrote:and
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That isthey would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism >>>>> that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious >>>>>> belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
If by 'It' you mean the steady development of civilisation in all its
manifestations, then this is a **result** of belief systems, not a
justification.
what I mean.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
Why should anyone have to justify their religious beliefs, Fred? I can
accept that actions must be justified, but who do you think a belief
in mysticism and invisible gods (and you should bear in mind that is
your description) should be justified to? And why should justificatin
be sought by anyone?
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 16:20:16 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 3:56 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak
and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism >>>>>> that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious >>>>>>> belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
If by 'It' you mean the steady development of civilisation in all its
manifestations, then this is a **result** of belief systems, not a
justification.
what I mean.
And what should happen if it is not justified?
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult
and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the
weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in >>>> magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient--
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he >>>>>>>>> needs to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are >>>>>>>> an organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend >>>>>>>> cult and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme >>>>>>>> on the weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that >>>>>>>> believes in magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other
god-bothering outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe >>>>>>> weird things, but generally they do a bit more good than harm, and >>>>>>> certainly more so than other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult >>>>>> to take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
Why should anyone have to justify their religious beliefs, Fred?
I can
accept that actions must be justified, but who do you think a belief
in mysticism and invisible gods (and you should bear in mind that is
your description) should be justified to?
And why should justificatin be sought by anyone?
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he >>>>>>>>> needs to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are >>>>>>>> an organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend >>>>>>>> cult and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme >>>>>>>> on the weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that >>>>>>>> believes in magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other
god-bothering outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe >>>>>>> weird things, but generally they do a bit more good than harm, and >>>>>>> certainly more so than other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult >>>>>> to take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
If by 'It' you mean the steady development of civilisation in all its manifestations, then this is a **result** of belief systems, not a justification.
On 6/06/2016 5:17 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 16:20:16 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 3:56 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:If by 'It' you mean the steady development of civilisation in all its
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common >>>>>>>>>>>> parlance, "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he >>>>>>>>>>>> needs to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They >>>>>>>>>>> are an organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary >>>>>>>>>>> friend cult and they would try an inflict this particularly >>>>>>>>>>> dangerous meme on the weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! >>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone that believes in magic and talking snakes be >>>>>>>>>>> taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other
god-bothering outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe >>>>>>>>>> weird things, but generally they do a bit more good than harm, >>>>>>>>>> and certainly more so than other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it
difficult to take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism >>>>>>> that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the >>>>>>> universe and its origins.
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire >>>>>>>> gamut of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is >>>>>>>> originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious >>>>>>>> belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient >>>>>>>> popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods. >>>>
manifestations, then this is a **result** of belief systems, not a
justification.
what I mean.
And what should happen if it is not justified?
People should openly laugh at them - not treat them seriously as is the
case at present. We would openly laugh at anyone who believed in
Goblins. There should be no difference. A believe in Goblins, fairies or
gods cannot be justified. Amen.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
If by 'It' you mean the steady development of civilisation in all its manifestations, then this is a **result** of belief systems, not a justification.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:35:11 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/06/2016 12:02 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he >>>>>>>>> needs to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are >>>>>>>> an organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend >>>>>>>> cult and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme >>>>>>>> on the weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that >>>>>>>> believes in magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other
god-bothering outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe >>>>>>> weird things, but generally they do a bit more good than harm, and >>>>>>> certainly more so than other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult >>>>>> to take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut >>>>> of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
It does not justify continuing belief in mysticism and invisible gods.
Fred
There is two parts to this discussion
First Part
Is there a God. We don't know and it can't be proven if there is or not.
But walk around the likes of Saint Pauls in london.
Inspired by god I would go along with that.
Secound part
God will save you, Repent your sins, drink is evil.
along with a doz or so fairytales in the bible
is all unadulterated crap.
Now the Salvation army do some real good in the community.
should they be condemned because they have a hocus pocus division?
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:49:24 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:05:12 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult >>>>and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the >>>>weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in >>>>magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
The Salvation Army are one of New Zealands most charitable
institutions, along with other churches. You normally support charity
rather than government intervention, Allistar. They certainly do not
deserve your accusation of being untruthful - indeed their correction
to John Key has been supported by the relevant ministry.
My accusation of them being untruthful is founded in their superstitious >>belief system. One that denies women their right to be equals with men.
One that is the source of many of todays woes.
Your condemnation of an organisation becasue of a religious belief
their members hold is most anti-libertarian
I haven't condemned them. This is yet another example of you putting words >>in other people's mouths. It's most dishonest.
To say "I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously." as
you did is indeed a condemnation for an organisation with its stated
ideals, values and objectives. Those are your words, Allistar.
To be more offensive, you then said: "They are an organisation that
follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and they would try
an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and gullible."
and then to compund your condemnation of the organisation you attempt
to defend your previous statements by saying "My accusation of them
being untruthful is founded in their superstitious belief system. One
that denies women their right to be equals with men. One that is the
source of many of todays woes."
Such an unprovoked attack on an organisation that tries valiently to
provide positive charitable works to our community, particularly in
view of your claims that there shoud be more of such work, is
surprising. My reaction was mild, but your attack on me is completely unjustified - I have not put words in your mouth.
- I would have expected
you to understand that it is not necessary for you to share their
beliefs to appreciate other things that they do.
I do appreciate the things they do. You make it sound like I don't. Again, >>more dishonesty on your part.
If you appreciate the works they do why say you cannot take them
seriously, etc?
For someone to believe such nutty things shows a lack of understanding of >>the real world. Believing in talking donkeys, snakes and other such >>nonsense leads me to distrust other things they say.
I am not ridiculing people. I am ridiculing ideas. Ridiculous ideas
deserve ridicule.
You are attempting (but failing) to ridicule an organisation ont eh
basis of religious beliefs that you do not share, but which are what
directly leads them to the good work you ignore,
and contrary to the
libertarian principes of tolerance and reliance on charity that you
have previously professed to hold.
Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:49:24 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:05:12 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult >>>>>and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the >>>>>weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in >>>>>magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
The Salvation Army are one of New Zealands most charitable
institutions, along with other churches. You normally support charity
rather than government intervention, Allistar. They certainly do not
deserve your accusation of being untruthful - indeed their correction
to John Key has been supported by the relevant ministry.
My accusation of them being untruthful is founded in their superstitious >>>belief system. One that denies women their right to be equals with men. >>>One that is the source of many of todays woes.
Your condemnation of an organisation becasue of a religious belief
their members hold is most anti-libertarian
I haven't condemned them. This is yet another example of you putting words >>>in other people's mouths. It's most dishonest.
To say "I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously." as
you did is indeed a condemnation for an organisation with its stated
ideals, values and objectives. Those are your words, Allistar.
Saying "I cannot take them seriously" is not the same as saying "I condemn >them". If you think so then I suggest you find out what "condemn" means. In >the meantime stop the dishonest habit of putting words into people's mouths.
To be more offensive, you then said: "They are an organisation that
follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and they would try
an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and gullible."
That's not offensive.
and then to compund your condemnation of the organisation you attempt
to defend your previous statements by saying "My accusation of them
being untruthful is founded in their superstitious belief system. One
that denies women their right to be equals with men. One that is the
source of many of todays woes."
All of the Abrahamic religions treat women poorly.
Such an unprovoked attack on an organisation that tries valiently to
provide positive charitable works to our community, particularly in
view of your claims that there shoud be more of such work, is
surprising. My reaction was mild, but your attack on me is completely
unjustified - I have not put words in your mouth.
You said I condemned them. I did nothing of the sort.
- I would have expected
you to understand that it is not necessary for you to share their
beliefs to appreciate other things that they do.
I do appreciate the things they do. You make it sound like I don't. Again, >>>more dishonesty on your part.
If you appreciate the works they do why say you cannot take them
seriously, etc?
Because they believe in abject nonsense. Can you take someone seriously if >they say they believe in unicorns?
For someone to believe such nutty things shows a lack of understanding of >>>the real world. Believing in talking donkeys, snakes and other such >>>nonsense leads me to distrust other things they say.
I am not ridiculing people. I am ridiculing ideas. Ridiculous ideas >>>deserve ridicule.
You are attempting (but failing) to ridicule an organisation ont eh
basis of religious beliefs that you do not share, but which are what
directly leads them to the good work you ignore,
I Have not ignored their good works at all. This is yet another case of you >being dishonest.
and contrary to the
libertarian principes of tolerance and reliance on charity that you
have previously professed to hold.
You know nothing of libertarianism nor of being honest.
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
what I mean.
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
There must be a scientific explanation.
Despite all the wars carried out in the name of religion, none of theWhat an indefensible thing to say.
many religions in the world can be as destructive currently as the
irrational neo-liberal beliefs of many politicians
- or the persistentYou would hate lying; it is a common failing of human beings to hate in others what they are most guilty of themselves!
lying carried out to try to distract from its effects.
snip>
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 20:36:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:49:24 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:05:12 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>>organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult >>>>>>and they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the >>>>>>weak and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes >>>>>>in magic and talking snakes be taken seriously?
The Salvation Army are one of New Zealands most charitable
institutions, along with other churches. You normally support charity >>>>> rather than government intervention, Allistar. They certainly do not >>>>> deserve your accusation of being untruthful - indeed their correction >>>>> to John Key has been supported by the relevant ministry.
My accusation of them being untruthful is founded in their superstitious >>>>belief system. One that denies women their right to be equals with men. >>>>One that is the source of many of todays woes.
Your condemnation of an organisation becasue of a religious belief
their members hold is most anti-libertarian
I haven't condemned them. This is yet another example of you putting >>>>words in other people's mouths. It's most dishonest.
To say "I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously." as
you did is indeed a condemnation for an organisation with its stated
ideals, values and objectives. Those are your words, Allistar.
Saying "I cannot take them seriously" is not the same as saying "I condemn >>them". If you think so then I suggest you find out what "condemn" means.
In the meantime stop the dishonest habit of putting words into people's >>mouths.
To be more offensive, you then said: "They are an organisation that
follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and they would try
an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak and gullible."
That's not offensive.
and then to compund your condemnation of the organisation you attempt
to defend your previous statements by saying "My accusation of them
being untruthful is founded in their superstitious belief system. One
that denies women their right to be equals with men. One that is the
source of many of todays woes."
All of the Abrahamic religions treat women poorly.
Such an unprovoked attack on an organisation that tries valiently to
provide positive charitable works to our community, particularly in
view of your claims that there shoud be more of such work, is
surprising. My reaction was mild, but your attack on me is completely
unjustified - I have not put words in your mouth.
You said I condemned them. I did nothing of the sort.
- I would have expected
you to understand that it is not necessary for you to share their
beliefs to appreciate other things that they do.
I do appreciate the things they do. You make it sound like I don't. >>>>Again, more dishonesty on your part.
If you appreciate the works they do why say you cannot take them
seriously, etc?
Because they believe in abject nonsense. Can you take someone seriously if >>they say they believe in unicorns?
For someone to believe such nutty things shows a lack of understanding >>>>of the real world. Believing in talking donkeys, snakes and other such >>>>nonsense leads me to distrust other things they say.
I am not ridiculing people. I am ridiculing ideas. Ridiculous ideas >>>>deserve ridicule.
You are attempting (but failing) to ridicule an organisation ont eh
basis of religious beliefs that you do not share, but which are what
directly leads them to the good work you ignore,
I Have not ignored their good works at all. This is yet another case of
you being dishonest.
and contrary to the
libertarian principes of tolerance and reliance on charity that you
have previously professed to hold.
You know nothing of libertarianism nor of being honest.
Despite all the wars carried out in the name of religion, none of the
many religions in the world can be as destructive currently as the
irrational neo-liberal beliefs of many politicians - or the persistent
lying carried out to try to distract from its effects.
How can you justify your belief in extremist political views,
Allistar?
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:ISIL is not a religion, and while they apparently claim that some of
<snip>
What an indefensible thing to say.
Despite all the wars carried out in the name of religion, none of the
many religions in the world can be as destructive currently as the >>irrational neo-liberal beliefs of many politicians
Is Isil less destructive than your imaginary nemesis? Isil murders, rapes and >brutally tortures in the name of religion!
- or the persistentYou would hate lying; it is a common failing of human beings to hate in others >what they are most guilty of themselves!
lying carried out to try to distract from its effects.
snip>
Tony
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 15:56:57 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:ISIL is not a religion, and while they apparently claim that some of
<snip>
What an indefensible thing to say.
Despite all the wars carried out in the name of religion, none of the >>>many religions in the world can be as destructive currently as the >>>irrational neo-liberal beliefs of many politicians
Is Isil less destructive than your imaginary nemesis? Isil murders, rapes >>and brutally tortures in the name of religion!
their actions are in support of a religion, I believe that they are
acting against the religion that they are abusing.
- or the persistentYou would hate lying; it is a common failing of human beings to hate in >>others what they are most guilty of themselves!
lying carried out to try to distract from its effects.
snip>
Go back to the beginning of the thread:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying" http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
Lying is what ISIL are doing - lying about what their reigion stands
for and what it is telling them to do.
At the heart of most of the great disasters of history has been a lack
of the true principles of our major religions - caring, tolerance,
empathy, truth.
From such lies comes poverty,sickness and death - at
a time now when we have the resources to provide at lest basic
security for all. We have seen the ills of the past but have not
learned the lesson that liars, sealots and uncaring psycopaths make
poor leaders - I do not defend ISIL for example because they are
claiming that what they are doing is in the name of religion - ;
I
condemn them for both the lie, and what they do as a reuslt of that
lie. As we now from children, tolerance of small lies does not lead
to good outcomes . . .
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 15:56:57 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netDo you ever read what people post - I said in the 'name' of religion you sdishonest man.
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:ISIL is not a religion, and while they apparently claim that some of
<snip>
What an indefensible thing to say.
Despite all the wars carried out in the name of religion, none of the >>>many religions in the world can be as destructive currently as the >>>irrational neo-liberal beliefs of many politicians
Is Isil less destructive than your imaginary nemesis? Isil murders, rapes and >>brutally tortures in the name of religion!
their actions are in support of a religion, I believe that they are
acting against the religion that they are abusing.
I was talkinga bout your lying.- or the persistentYou would hate lying; it is a common failing of human beings to hate in >>others
lying carried out to try to distract from its effects.
what they are most guilty of themselves!
snip>
Go back to the beginning of the thread:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying" >http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs
to learn to listen . . .
Lying is what ISIL are doing - lying about what their reigion stands
for and what it is telling them to do.
At the heart of most of the great disasters of history has been a lack
of the true principles of our major religions - caring, tolerance,
empathy, truth. From such lies comes poverty,sickness and death - at
a time now when we have the resources to provide at lest basic
security for all. We have seen the ills of the past but have not
learned the lesson that liars, sealots and uncaring psycopaths make
poor leaders - I do not defend ISIL for example because they are
claiming that what they are doing is in the name of religion - ; I
condemn them for both the lie, and what they do as a reuslt of that
lie. As we now from children, tolerance of small lies does not lead
to good outcomes . . .
victor wrote:
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
Because children are indoctrinated at an age where they don't and can't know any better. Because people are threatened with an eternity of torture if
they don't believe.
I think children should be protected from such belief systems as they are from alcohol and cigarettes.
There must be a scientific explanation.
The science behind it would be in the psychology of gullibility and fear.
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is
what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
There must be a scientific explanation.
On 7/06/2016 8:55 a.m., Allistar wrote:
victor wrote:
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is >>>> what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
Because children are indoctrinated at an age where they don't and can't
know any better. Because people are threatened with an eternity of
torture if they don't believe.
There are plenty of religious traditions that don't do any of this.
I think children should be protected from such belief systems as they are
from alcohol and cigarettes.
How are you going to do that ?
There must be a scientific explanation.
The science behind it would be in the psychology of gullibility and fear.
I don't think you have any satisfactory explanations.
victor wrote:
On 7/06/2016 8:55 a.m., Allistar wrote:
victor wrote:
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That is >>>>> what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
Because children are indoctrinated at an age where they don't and can't
know any better. Because people are threatened with an eternity of
torture if they don't believe.
There are plenty of religious traditions that don't do any of this.
Sure. But the majority of Abrahamic religions do this. It's a core tenet of Christianity.
I think children should be protected from such belief systems as they are >>> from alcohol and cigarettes.
How are you going to do that ?
By preventing any form of proselytising in public schools.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:16:01 +1200, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/06/2016 2:29 p.m., Newsman wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:43:58 +1200, Allistar <me@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:
Fred wrote:
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance, >>>>>>> "lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an >>>>>> organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in magic >>>>>> and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering >>>>> outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but >>>>> generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than >>>>> other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to >>>> take them seriously because of that.
Judge them by their deeds rather than their beliefs.
That's fair enough.
Those points are not relevant and do not justify belief in mysticism
Not only charity in its various forms, but virtually the entire gamut
of what is known collectively as western art and culture, is
originally founded on the inspiration and convictions of religious
belief.
Even the formless, talentless warblings of the latest transient
popster have their roots in 1st Millennium popish plainsong.
that was accepted centuries ago when nothing was known about the
universe and its origins.
It's not a matter of justification, it's simply a matter of
indisputable fact.
We have moved on.
Yes, but the founding religio/cultural bedrock of our civilisation
remains embedded for all time, developing and strengthening with each
passing generation and you'll never be able to show otherwise.
On 7/06/2016 2:25 p.m., Allistar wrote:
victor wrote:
On 7/06/2016 8:55 a.m., Allistar wrote:
victor wrote:
On 6/06/2016 4:20 p.m., Fred wrote:
What is not justified in the 21st century is a belief in a god. That >>>>>> is what I mean.
So why does the belief persist ?
Because children are indoctrinated at an age where they don't and can't >>>> know any better. Because people are threatened with an eternity of
torture if they don't believe.
There are plenty of religious traditions that don't do any of this.
Sure. But the majority of Abrahamic religions do this. It's a core tenet
of Christianity.
I think children should be protected from such belief systems as they
are from alcohol and cigarettes.
How are you going to do that ?
By preventing any form of proselytising in public schools.
See there you have a problem.
Our government and its ministries is full of old boys from Christs
College, Kings, AG, St Bedes etc that send their kids to their almer
mater and think prayers nd hymns are part of growing up right.
Not changing any time soon
On 5/06/2016 10:43 a.m., Allistar wrote:
Fred wrote:Sure, but can you name one religion that doesn't believe nutty crap? I
On 4/06/2016 9:05 p.m., Allistar wrote:
Rich80105 wrote:
Yet again John Key caught "gilding the lily" - in common parlance,
"lying"
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/salvation-army-key-wrong-on-homeless-visit-2016060314#axzz4AVqnUTCW
Gosh he gets "wrong advice" so often, doesn't he? Perhaps he needs >>>>> to learn to listen . . .
I can't taken anything the Salvation Army say seriously. They are an
organisation that follow a particularly immoral imaginary friend
cult and
they would try an inflict this particularly dangerous meme on the weak >>>> and gullible. Shame on them I say! How can anyone that believes in
magic
and talking snakes be taken seriously?
Actually they're far less guilty of that than most other god-bothering
outfits. They might wear funny costumes and believe weird things, but
generally they do a bit more good than harm, and certainly more so than
other religions.
They actually believe such nutty nonsense though. I find it difficult to
take them seriously because of that.
can't - yet it doesn't follow that they are nutty in all respects. e.g
over 70% of Americans believe in angels, yet the country still functions reasonably well. Fung shui with invisible dragons etc. is probably even sillier yet preached by some religions in regions of the plkanet that
somehow vgert by..
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