JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html
The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly >left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens get >close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >imagination.
Tony
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no data source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that were not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real oppositiion party!
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html
The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly >>left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:data
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.htmlThe problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>> never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>> get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>> imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish thatwere
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real oppositiion party!
Tony
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no data >source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that were
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html
The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>>never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>>get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>>imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >oppositiion party!
Tony
On 20/05/2016 12:51 p.m., Tony wrote:But still very sad when you look at the genuine passion and commitment that started the movement overseas and here in NZ. All but gone it would seem!
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I think you are right about that. Unfortunately it will probably take
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.htmlThe problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>>> never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>>> get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>>> imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no >>data
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the
politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have
demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that >>were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real
oppositiion party!
Tony
another couple of election cycles, but it seems inevitable the way
Labour have continued to destroy themselves.
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no data
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>>>never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>>>get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>>>imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the
only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come
from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ
political parties.
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>None of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page provided no data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that the National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise with absolutely no evidence.
wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no >>>data
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>>>>never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>>>>get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>>>>imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that >>>were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the
only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come
from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the
image National wanted and removed it.
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:None of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page provided no
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no >>>>data
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that >>>>were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>>>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the
image National wanted and removed it.
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that the >National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour >party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise >with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article that you pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is your responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but then that is the way you try to debate - without facts!
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:None of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page provided >>no
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no >>>>>data
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which >>>>>>>has
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The >>>>>>>greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of >>>>>>>his
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony >>>>>>http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that >>>>>were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>>>>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear >>>>to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>>Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from >>>academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the >>>image National wanted and removed it.
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that the >>National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour >>party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise >>with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving as
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article that you >pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is your >responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but then that
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:None of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page provided >>>no
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>>>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no >>>>>>data
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which >>>>>>>>has
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The >>>>>>>>greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of >>>>>>>>his
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony >>>>>>>http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>>>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>>>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that
were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>>>>>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was >>>>>clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear >>>>>to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>>>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>>>Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from >>>>academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated >>>>scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the >>>>image National wanted and removed it.
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that the >>>National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour >>>party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise >>>with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
is the way you try to debate - without facts!
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
I don't need any - you have failed to make your case - once more.I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
your confirmation.
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:08:49 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net(which
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism
ofhas
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>>>>sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The >>>>>>>>greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment
ofNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piecehis
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony >>>>>>>http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
nowishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence,
thatdata
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>>>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>>>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish
realwere
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a
providedNone of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the pageoppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was >>>>>clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear >>>>>to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>>>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>>>Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from >>>>academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated >>>>scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National >>>>(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the >>>>image National wanted and removed it.
theno
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that
LabourNational party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the
otherwiseparty being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say
thatIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article that you >pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is your >responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but thenwith absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
is the way you try to debate - without facts!You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving as
evidence your opinion only.
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
TonyI didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in
your confirmation.
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:16:08 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:no
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:08:49 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >> >>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >> >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >> >>>>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (whichhas
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is
sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The >> >>>>>>>>greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of
his
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence,
right" and only the insane and retarded could possibly think they are.You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving asIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article that you >> >pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is yourNone of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page provideddata
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >> >>>>>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >> >>>>>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that
were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real
oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear >> >>>>>to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >> >>>>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >> >>>>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ
political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New
Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the
image National wanted and removed it.
no
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that the
National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour
party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise
with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but then that
is the way you try to debate - without facts!
evidence your opinion only.
That's all that is required. It is bleedin' obvious that the Nats are nto "far
After all, the Nats have been happily pinching Labour policy and keeping them marginalised simply by occupying the middle ground.Yes, Labour are centre-right, and also there are some issues which
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to:
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
All Farrar did was report how it rated him. Nothing in your quote above supports your assertion that he says it is a valid tool.
However even then Farrar, an National party member, is not "far right" at +10 on the tool.
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
your confirmation.
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issuesI don't need any
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
your confirmation.
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that National >are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared years >ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >international standard.
Tony
Don't be silly - see above!
Tony
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and provide zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion!
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issuesI don't need any
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need
any evidence in support,
but you are not prepared to accept widespreadThere is no widespread support - provide some proof!
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand
Bloggers, including David Farrar?
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >typically be called "centre-right"On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence!
OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have demonstrated only stupidity.- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>international standard.
National is not "far-right".
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
your confirmation.
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>parties.
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence toI don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that yourAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and provide >zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion!
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need
any evidence in support,
but you are not prepared to accept widespreadThere is no widespread support - provide some proof!
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>Bloggers, including David Farrar?
If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your replyOn what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence!
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>typically be called "centre-right"
Where on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony?OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>international standard.
National is not "far-right".
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense.
Tony
On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:30:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netSlightly right of centre.
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
It is easier to deny evidence if it is deleted from responses - here
is the reference back again:
David Farrar - and I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>>parties.
David Farrar runs Kiwiblog - he did the test on the political compass >website, and stated his position. Clearly he agreed with that chart,
and still does. Furthermore, the test was widely accepted by many
others, as given in the second reference I gave
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence toI don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
support - to assume that your unsupported post is somehow more
credible than a post supporte by evidence of wide acceptance in the
New Zealand political context is only evidence of ignorance or
arrogance.
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that yourAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and provide >>zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >>assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion!
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need
any evidence in support,
but you are not prepared to accept widespreadThere is no widespread support - provide some proof!
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>>Bloggers, including David Farrar?
problem with what he says?) there are polenty of other people who have
taken the test and accept its validity - and were prepared to share
their results with others.
you would see:On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence! >If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your reply
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>>typically be called "centre-right"
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
Where on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony?OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have >>demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>>>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>>international standard.
National is not "far-right".
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense.
Tony
- and why do you believe the political compass gives a wrongHow would I know -nor do I care - it is obviously wrong.
assessment?
Do you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiatedIt is you that has pointed to a silly chart that has no scientific basis - just opinion by a tiny number of people.
opinion?
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:That is of course absolute nonsense - where is your proof? Without it
On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:30:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
It is easier to deny evidence if it is deleted from responses - here
is the reference back again:
David Farrar - and I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>>>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>>>parties.
David Farrar runs Kiwiblog - he did the test on the political compass >>website, and stated his position. Clearly he agreed with that chart,
and still does. Furthermore, the test was widely accepted by many
others, as given in the second reference I gave
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence toI don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
support - to assume that your unsupported post is somehow more
credible than a post supporte by evidence of wide acceptance in the
New Zealand political context is only evidence of ignorance or
arrogance.
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that yourAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and provide
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need >>>>any evidence in support,
zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >>>assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion! >>>>but you are not prepared to accept widespread
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>>>Bloggers, including David Farrar?There is no widespread support - provide some proof!
problem with what he says?) there are polenty of other people who have >>taken the test and accept its validity - and were prepared to share
their results with others.
you would see:On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence! >>If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your reply
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>>>typically be called "centre-right"
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have >>>demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that >>>>National is not "far-right".
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>>>>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>>>international standard.
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense.
Tony
Where on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony? >Slightly right of centre.
So provided with evidence that I am correct, you choose not to- and why do you believe the political compass gives a wrongHow would I know -nor do I care - it is obviously wrong.
assessment?
You made a statement that you cannot support with any evidence - IDo you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiatedIt is you that has pointed to a silly chart that has no scientific basis - just
opinion?
opinion by a tiny number of people.
You have yet to demonstarte any evidence that supports the silly conclusions itI am sure I am only the latest in a long line of people disappointed
draws. I don't need to disprove something that is inherently unproven.
And you continuing to repeat your silly suggestion that I have something to >disprove will get you nowhere.
Tony
On Sat, 21 May 2016 22:06:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netIt is as accurate as the silly chart that has no scientific basis - you are right about stupidity I have demonstrated that the chart is stupid as are you for thinking it has a scientific basis.
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:30:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
It is easier to deny evidence if it is deleted from responses - here
is the reference back again:
David Farrar - and I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>>>>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>>>>parties.
David Farrar runs Kiwiblog - he did the test on the political compass >>>website, and stated his position. Clearly he agreed with that chart,
and still does. Furthermore, the test was widely accepted by many
others, as given in the second reference I gave
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence toI don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
support - to assume that your unsupported post is somehow more
credible than a post supporte by evidence of wide acceptance in the
New Zealand political context is only evidence of ignorance or
arrogance.
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that yourAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and >>>>provide
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need >>>>>any evidence in support,
zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >>>>assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion! >>>>>but you are not prepared to accept widespread
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>>>>Bloggers, including David Farrar?There is no widespread support - provide some proof!
problem with what he says?) there are polenty of other people who have >>>taken the test and accept its validity - and were prepared to share
their results with others.
you would see:On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence! >>>If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your reply
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>>>>typically be called "centre-right"
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have >>>>demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that >>>>>National is not "far-right".
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>>>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>>>>>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>>>>international standard.
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense.
Tony
That is of course absolute nonsense - where is your proof? Without itWhere on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony? >>Slightly right of centre.
yu have demonstrated only stupidity.
Yes you are stupid for thinking you have provided any evidence at all of a scientific basis - not even a yardstick - thank you for mentioning it!So provided with evidence that I am correct, you choose not to- and why do you believe the political compass gives a wrongHow would I know -nor do I care - it is obviously wrong.
assessment?
consider it because it does not match your opinion - that really does
confirm stupidity.
National acolytes are many and vatied - ssome may be correct and some probably are not - you have provided no evidence Rich.You made a statement that you cannot support with any evidence - IDo you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiatedIt is you that has pointed to a silly chart that has no scientific basis - >>just
opinion?
opinion by a tiny number of people.
provided you with ample evidence that even an acolyte of National
agrees with me that National is near the extreme right of the poliical >compass (ACT is marginaly more to the right).
You have abused more people in this newsgroup than almost every other poster and compared to me you are a past master at it. Anyway I have written the truth and if that appears to you to be abusive then so be it; you are the one that has the problem.You have yet to demonstarte any evidence that supports the silly conclusions >>itI am sure I am only the latest in a long line of people disappointed
draws. I don't need to disprove something that is inherently unproven.
And you continuing to repeat your silly suggestion that I have something to >>disprove will get you nowhere.
in your selfish disregard for evidence and rational discourse, and
your mistaken belief that personal abuse makes up for lack of
argument.
On Sat, 21 May 2016 01:44:17 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>of
wrote:
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:16:08 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:08:49 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>> dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>> dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.htmlThe problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which
has
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is
sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The >>>>>>>>>>> greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment
ofNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piecehis
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
thatwishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no
data
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>>>>>>> politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>>>>>>> demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish
theNone of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the page providedwere
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real
oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was >>>>>>>> clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear >>>>>>>> to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>>>>>> only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>>>>> >from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>>>>>> political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>>>>>> Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from >>>>>>> academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated >>>>>>> scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National >>>>>>> (and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the >>>>>>> image National wanted and removed it.
no
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe that
thatIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article that you >>>> pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is yourNational party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the Labour
party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say otherwise
with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but then
is the way you try to debate - without facts!You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving as
evidence your opinion only.
That's all that is required. It is bleedin' obvious that the Nats are nto "far right" and only the insane and retarded could possibly think they are.
Except that you have no evidence to support that assertion.
Yes, Labour are centre-right, and also there are some issues which
After all, the Nats have been happily pinching Labour policy and keeping them marginalised simply by occupying the middle ground.
most parties agree - it is typical of National that they would refuse
on principle any bill from an opposition party but implement similar provisions under their own bill - except recently where they did not
have a majority in the house and a Labour-sponsored Bill passed its
first reading . . .
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to:
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
All Farrar did was report how it rated him. Nothing in your quote above supports your assertion that he says it is a valid tool.
He referred to a table showing how a whole lot of people self-assessed
their position on the political compass.
However even then Farrar, an National party member, is not "far right" at +10 on the tool.
He could not go any further right!
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed inDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
your confirmation.
On 21/05/2016 11:44 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:net
On Sat, 21 May 2016 01:44:17 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:16:08 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:08:49 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>> dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
netdot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
(whichdot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.htmlThe problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism
party ishas
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour
Thesligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre.
figment ofgreens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a
piece ofNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made uphis
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
evidence, nowishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no
thedata
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to
havepolitically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you
wish thatdemonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I
realwere
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a
appearoppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was >>>>>>>> clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not
theto have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is
comeonly reference to NZ so the information in that article does not
providedNone of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the pagefrom a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>>>>>> political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>>>>>> Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from >>>>>>> academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated >>>>>>> scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National >>>>>>> (and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the >>>>>>> image National wanted and removed it.
that theno
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who believe
LabourNational party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to the
otherwiseparty being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say
youIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article thatwith absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
then thatpointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is your
responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it - but
"far right" and only the insane and retarded could possibly think they are.is the way you try to debate - without facts!You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving as
evidence your opinion only.
That's all that is required. It is bleedin' obvious that the Nats are nto
them marginalised simply by occupying the middle ground.Except that you have no evidence to support that assertion.
After all, the Nats have been happily pinching Labour policy and keeping
supports your assertion that he says it is a valid tool.Yes, Labour are centre-right, and also there are some issues which
most parties agree - it is typical of National that they would refuse
on principle any bill from an opposition party but implement similar provisions under their own bill - except recently where they did not
have a majority in the house and a Labour-sponsored Bill passed its
first reading . . .
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member >>>>> with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but it >>> is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to:
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
All Farrar did was report how it rated him. Nothing in your quote above
+10 on the tool.He referred to a table showing how a whole lot of people self-assessed their position on the political compass.
However even then Farrar, an National party member, is not "far right" at
He could not go any further right!
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>> your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
We have a highly developed welfare system. Given that National has
governed more than 50 % of the last few decades, and has expanded this
in several areas, and never campaigned on reducing social services, is
proof enough that National is nowhere near a far right govt. They are
very much a centre party.
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 22:06:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netIt is as accurate as the silly chart that has no scientific basis - you are >right about stupidity I have demonstrated that the chart is stupid as are you >for thinking it has a scientific basis.
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:That is of course absolute nonsense - where is your proof? Without it
On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:30:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
It is easier to deny evidence if it is deleted from responses - here
is the reference back again:
David Farrar - and I had thought he had removed the statement, but it >>>>is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>>>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>>>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>>>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>>>>>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>>>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>>>>>parties.
David Farrar runs Kiwiblog - he did the test on the political compass >>>>website, and stated his position. Clearly he agreed with that chart, >>>>and still does. Furthermore, the test was widely accepted by many >>>>others, as given in the second reference I gave
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence to >>>>support - to assume that your unsupported post is somehow moreI don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>>>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
credible than a post supporte by evidence of wide acceptance in the
New Zealand political context is only evidence of ignorance or >>>>arrogance.
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that yourAre you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and >>>>>provide
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need >>>>>>any evidence in support,
zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >>>>>assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion! >>>>>>but you are not prepared to accept widespread
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>>>>>Bloggers, including David Farrar?There is no widespread support - provide some proof!
problem with what he says?) there are polenty of other people who have >>>>taken the test and accept its validity - and were prepared to share >>>>their results with others.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence! >>>>If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your reply >>>>you would see:
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>>>>>typically be called "centre-right"
OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have >>>>>demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that >>>>>>National is not "far-right".
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts.
David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>>>>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously disappeared >>>>>>>years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>>>>>international standard.
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense. >>>>>Tony
Where on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony? >>>Slightly right of centre.
yu have demonstrated only stupidity.
Yes you are stupid for thinking you have provided any evidence at all of a >scientific basis - not even a yardstick - thank you for mentioning it!
So provided with evidence that I am correct, you choose not to- and why do you believe the political compass gives a wrong >>>>assessment?How would I know -nor do I care - it is obviously wrong.
consider it because it does not match your opinion - that really does >>confirm stupidity.
I have provided vastly more than your zero evidence. See my comment on
You made a statement that you cannot support with any evidence - IDo you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiatedIt is you that has pointed to a silly chart that has no scientific basis - >>>just
opinion?
opinion by a tiny number of people.
provided you with ample evidence that even an acolyte of National
agrees with me that National is near the extreme right of the poliical >>compass (ACT is marginaly more to the right).
National acolytes are many and vatied - ssome may be correct and some probably >are not - you have provided no evidence Rich.
There was a time you were prepared to engage in reasonable discussionYou have abused more people in this newsgroup than almost every other poster >and compared to me you are a past master at it. Anyway I have written the truth
You have yet to demonstarte any evidence that supports the silly conclusions >>>itI am sure I am only the latest in a long line of people disappointed
draws. I don't need to disprove something that is inherently unproven. >>>And you continuing to repeat your silly suggestion that I have something to >>>disprove will get you nowhere.
in your selfish disregard for evidence and rational discourse, and
your mistaken belief that personal abuse makes up for lack of
argument.
and if that appears to you to be abusive then so be it; you are the one that >has the problem.
Tony
On Sun, 22 May 2016 18:13:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 22:06:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot netIt is as accurate as the silly chart that has no scientific basis - you are >>right about stupidity I have demonstrated that the chart is stupid as are you >>for thinking it has a scientific basis.
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:That is of course absolute nonsense - where is your proof? Without it
On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:30:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:31:59 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
It is easier to deny evidence if it is deleted from responses - here >>>>>is the reference back again:
David Farrar - and I had thought he had removed the statement, but it >>>>>is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues >>>>>>>>>and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can >>>>>>>>>see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to: >>>>>>>>>http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >>>>>>>>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was >>>>>>>>>fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political >>>>>>>>>parties.
David Farrar runs Kiwiblog - he did the test on the political compass >>>>>website, and stated his position. Clearly he agreed with that chart, >>>>>and still does. Furthermore, the test was widely accepted by many >>>>>others, as given in the second reference I gave
Yes you do - you are denying something you were given evidence to >>>>>support - to assume that your unsupported post is somehow more >>>>>credible than a post supporte by evidence of wide acceptance in the >>>>>New Zealand political context is only evidence of ignorance or >>>>>arrogance.I don't need any
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointed in >>>>>>>>>your confirmation.Do you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
See above. Even if you do nt believe David Farrar (is that your >>>>>problem with what he says?) there are polenty of other people who have >>>>>taken the test and accept its validity - and were prepared to share >>>>>their results with others.Are you dumb or deliberately obtuse? You claim they are far right and >>>>>>provide
So you can claimn that National is not far-right and it doesn't need >>>>>>>any evidence in support,
zero proof - I am refuting that and until you provide proof of your silly >>>>>>assertion I do not need to provide any evidence. Prove your assertion! >>>>>>>but you are not prepared to accept widespread
support for the political compass characterisation from New Zealand >>>>>>>Bloggers, including David Farrar?There is no widespread support - provide some proof!
If you go to the website instead of just deleting it from your reply >>>>>you would see:On what measure? You have provided no proof or indeed any cogent evidence!
You should also note that Labour on that measure comes at what would >>>>>>>typically be called "centre-right"
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
OK I will ask once more - where is your proof? Without it you have >>>>>>demonstrated
- you have failed to make your case - once more.Resorting to wild suppositions does not support your claim that >>>>>>>National is not "far-right".
You have not provided any evisence and certainly no facts. >>>>>>>>David Farrar's information does not even get close to suggesting that >>>>>>>>National
are far right.
If we had a far right government you would have mysteriously >>>>>>>>disappeared
years
ago. Only a cretin would believe the Government is far right by any >>>>>>>>international standard.
only stupidity.
To say that this government is far right is an absolute nonsense. >>>>>>Tony
Where on the political spectrum do you you believe National is, Tony? >>>>Slightly right of centre.
yu have demonstrated only stupidity.
All you have demonstrated is that you have an opoinion - I have
demonstrated that the chart was widely supported and that it still is >supported by David Farrar. Now I don't agree with David Farrar's
politics, or his ethical standards, but I do respect his knowledge of >politics. You have provided no evidence to support your opinion.
Yes you are stupid for thinking you have provided any evidence at all of a >>scientific basis - not even a yardstick - thank you for mentioning it!
So provided with evidence that I am correct, you choose not to- and why do you believe the political compass gives a wrong >>>>>assessment?How would I know -nor do I care - it is obviously wrong.
consider it because it does not match your opinion - that really does >>>confirm stupidity.
There are other websites that purport to indicate political
positioning using similar scales - one was given in this thread -
using extremely simplistic quetions which are clearly biassed towards >legitimising certain extremist views.
Try reading more of the website:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
and
http://www.politicalcompass.org/profeedback
and
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
Your opinion is hardly based on that level of scientific and external >support!Vastly more than zero is - let me see - oh yes - zero!
You have not even attempted to challenge the basis for the Political
Compass - where is your 'scientific' evidence of deficiency witht eh >explanations given in those cites?
You made a statement that you cannot support with any evidence - I >>>provided you with ample evidence that even an acolyte of NationalDo you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiatedIt is you that has pointed to a silly chart that has no scientific basis - >>>>just
opinion?
opinion by a tiny number of people.
agrees with me that National is near the extreme right of the poliical >>>compass (ACT is marginaly more to the right).
National acolytes are many and vatied - ssome may be correct and some >>probablyI have provided vastly more than your zero evidence.
are not - you have provided no evidence Rich.
See my comment onI am not in denial but you are as is the Labour party much to my disappointment.
Farrar above - in this area I believe he has some professional
knowledge; sufficient for the National Party to pay him enough to fund
their polling.
There was a time you were prepared to engage in reasonable discussionYou have abused more people in this newsgroup than almost every other poster >>and compared to me you are a past master at it. Anyway I have written the >>truth
You have yet to demonstarte any evidence that supports the silly >>>>conclusionsI am sure I am only the latest in a long line of people disappointed
it
draws. I don't need to disprove something that is inherently unproven. >>>>And you continuing to repeat your silly suggestion that I have something to >>>>disprove will get you nowhere.
in your selfish disregard for evidence and rational discourse, and
your mistaken belief that personal abuse makes up for lack of
argument.
and if that appears to you to be abusive then so be it; you are the one that >>has the problem.
Tony
- it seems that the need to deny reality has overtaken you. Blind
support for extremism can do that to those that find the only peson
they have fooled is themselves - it is becoming more obvious that
National ministers are in similar denial . . .
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, no data
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which has >>>>>never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of centre. The greens >>>>>get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of his >>>>>imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to the >>>politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you have >>>demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I wish that were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced with a real >>>oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the
only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come
from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the
image National wanted and removed it.
On Fri, 20 May 2016 23:23:46 +1200, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:Not true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up piece of >>>>wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no evidence, >>>>no data source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except to >>>>the politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich you >>>>have demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as I >>>>wish that were not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is >>>>replaced with a real oppositiion party!
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.html >>>>>>The problem is that socialism is a theory - just like communism (which >>>>>>has never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of autocracy). >>>>>>Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour party is >>>>>>sligtly left of centre and the National party slight;y right of >>>>>>centre. The greens get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a figment of >>>>>>his imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article is the >>>only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not come >>>from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on NZ >>>political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in New >>Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not the
image National wanted and removed it.
This so-called political compass needs no vertical axis.
The left end represents:
Bigger government
Higher taxes.
Fewer freedoms.
More regulations.
The right end represents:
Smaller government
Lower taxes
More freedoms
Fewer regulations
What else is there?
On Monday, 23 May 2016 13:02:44 UTC+12, Fred wrote:
On 21/05/2016 11:44 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 01:44:17 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:16:08 UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 02:08:49 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:You have made an assertion that National is not far-right, giving as
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:06 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dotIt is you that has failed to provide data to support the article
net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:34:08 +1200, CrashNone of which changes the fact that the opinions stated on the
<nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:51:36 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 18:44:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orconNot true, I am not Right, but I am correct - unlike the made up
dot net
dot nz> wrote:
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/feelthebern-venezuela-edition.htmlThe problem is that socialism is a theory - just like
communism (which
has
never worked, invariably it turns into some sort of
autocracy).
Fortunately socialism has never taken hold here - the Labour
party is
sligtly
left of centre and the National party slight;y right of
centre. The
greens
get
close but are inept.
Rich will continue to talk about the "far right" which is a
figment of
his
imagination.
Tony
You are absolutely right, Tony
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2014
piece of
wishful thinking garbage you just pointed at. It provides no
evidence, no
data
source, it refers to the TPPA which was never an issue except
to the
politically inept and intellectually corrupt. Once more Rich
you have
demonstrated exactly why your precious party is dying, much as
I wish that
were
not the case - I fervently hope it collapses and is replaced
with a real
oppositiion party!
Tony
In addition to what Tony correctly points out, that article was
clearly a reflection of the 2014 General Election and does not
appear
to have been updated since. It is also clear that the article
is the
only reference to NZ so the information in that article does not
come
from a source that can demonstrate any credibility to comment on
NZ
political parties.
From the page, it was updated January 2016
At one stage the whole website was said to have been developed in
New
Zealand, with oiother countries added later with assistance from
academics overseas.
David Farrar used to quote it on his website, with his calculated
scorte (far right, but also far libertarian compared with
National
(and ACT) as high authoritarian. I think he realised that was not
the
image National wanted and removed it.
page provided
no
data. It is a fairy tale - and anyone of any persuasion who
believe that the
National party is far right needs treatment - the same applies to
the Labour
party being far left. It is just nonsense and you continue to say
otherwise
with absolutely no evidence.
Tony
I note that your opinion is without data.
that you
pointed to and there was no data in that article either; it is your
responsibility to support your assertion, not mine to refute it -
but then that
is the way you try to debate - without facts!
evidence your opinion only.
That's all that is required. It is bleedin' obvious that the Nats are
nto "far right" and only the insane and retarded could possibly think
they are.
Except that you have no evidence to support that assertion.
Yes, Labour are centre-right, and also there are some issues which
After all, the Nats have been happily pinching Labour policy and
keeping them marginalised simply by occupying the middle ground.
most parties agree - it is typical of National that they would refuse
on principle any bill from an opposition party but implement similar
provisions under their own bill - except recently where they did not
have a majority in the house and a Labour-sponsored Bill passed its
first reading . . .
I know that the politicalWho is that and please provide a cite?
compass was accepted as valid by a prominent National Party member
with professional political experiencel.
David Farrar - anmd I had thought he had removed the statement, but
it
is still there :
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
from which:
"On the political compass test I score +10 (right) on economic issues
and -6.15 (libertarian) on authoritarian/libertarian issues. One can
see some NZ blogosphere charted here."
Farrar's link goes to:
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2003/11/graphing-nz-blogosphere.html >> >>>
from which it is evident that back in 2005 the politicalcompass was
fairly widely accepted by supporters of a range of NZ political
parties.
All Farrar did was report how it rated him. Nothing in your quote
above supports your assertion that he says it is a valid tool.
He referred to a table showing how a whole lot of people self-assessed
their position on the political compass.
However even then Farrar, an National party member, is not "far right"
at +10 on the tool.
He could not go any further right!
I didn't expect you to have any evidence and so am not disappointedDo you have any evidence thatDon't be silly - see above!
supports your assertion?
Tony
in
your confirmation.
We have a highly developed welfare system. Given that National has
governed more than 50 % of the last few decades, and has expanded this
in several areas, and never campaigned on reducing social services, is
proof enough that National is nowhere near a far right govt. They are
very much a centre party.
Quite so. The Nats have not only preserved a very generous social welfare system, the also continue to sustain such socialist concepts as WFF, and interest free student loans. Add to that free healthcare, free education
and subsidised housing etc.
Anyone who says the above are the actions of "far right" government is
either retarded or lying.
As for Labour being centre-right... well they are openly advocating tax increases now. They are opposing charter schools and free trade
agreements. These are obviously not the actions of a "centre" let alone "centre-right" party.
Anyone who thinks the above are the actions of "centre-right" party is
either retarded or lying.
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