• How politicians poisoned statistics

    From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, April 17, 2016 17:16:00
    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official
    information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is
    still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html

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  • From Crash@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, April 17, 2016 18:26:19
    On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:16:00 +1200, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official
    information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is
    still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done: >http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html

    We therefore should be grateful for the fact that in cases where you
    have identified political shortcomings above, that the media benefit commercially from exposing those shortcomings. The article you cite
    has only the most general connection to our political theatre.

    Politicians will always seek to portray statistics that support their
    political viewpoints. Nothing new there and nothing new in how false statistics are exposed.

    The risks we face that are not covered in that article (the Financial
    Times is a newspaper) is that the media - being the traditional press,
    TV News etc. - do not adapt to a trend away from reading newspapers
    and watching Television. These are the media where politics is most
    commonly debated. The risk is that if media companies such as
    Fairfax, Mediaworks, TVNZ etc. don't adapt then they will die and
    their critical political journalism will die with them. Then we will
    have less media outlets to scrutinise politics.


    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, April 17, 2016 21:37:33
    On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:26:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:16:00 +1200, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official >>information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is >>still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done: >>http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html

    We therefore should be grateful for the fact that in cases where you
    have identified political shortcomings above, that the media benefit >commercially from exposing those shortcomings. The article you cite
    has only the most general connection to our political theatre.

    Politicians will always seek to portray statistics that support their >political viewpoints. Nothing new there and nothing new in how false >statistics are exposed.

    The risks we face that are not covered in that article (the Financial
    Times is a newspaper) is that the media - being the traditional press,
    TV News etc. - do not adapt to a trend away from reading newspapers
    and watching Television. These are the media where politics is most
    commonly debated. The risk is that if media companies such as
    Fairfax, Mediaworks, TVNZ etc. don't adapt then they will die and
    their critical political journalism will die with them. Then we will
    have less media outlets to scrutinise politics.

    We can disagree about the extent to which the shortcomings relate to
    New Zealand; I note that political advice and practices on the
    conservative side of politics have to an extent been converging -
    Crosby Textor have spread their methods from Australia to the UK and
    New Zealand in particular, but also to other jurisdictions. National
    is known to have regular discussions with other conservative parties,
    and to a lesser extent (probably related to costs involved) with other
    liberal / left / progressive parties.

    Certainly media experience is fairly consistent in different
    countries, and I agree with you that the media risks are critical. We
    have seen in New Zealand an increase in sponsored articles and thinly
    disguised pres releases. Journalism is no longer portrayed as a
    profitable profession, whereas public relations is seen to empoloy an increasing number of former reporters and journalists, to the extent
    that tertiary institutions are starting to look more favourably at
    courses in PR than in Journalism. The trend you rightly identify is
    already with us - an increasing number of people now give their
    primary source of news and current affairs knowledge as coming from
    the internet, including social media, than from newspapers and
    television.

    In the USA. you will be aware of the growth of the partisan Fox News,
    which appears to have fostered such a level of blind hatred among its
    followers that it may well contribute to the split or demise of the
    Republican party. The closest equivalent partisan media organisation
    on the Democrat side may be Huffington Post, or perhaps shows like the
    Jon Stewart show - not nearly as influential as Fox, but having at
    least making an attempt at reasoned argument. UK and USA newspapers
    are particularly partisan, but there is usually at least one that
    covers issues on a relatively non-partisan basis. As a smaller
    country, we do not have that balance with newspapers, and popular
    perception would probably be that Paul Henry and have greater
    influence than John Campbell, and as far as blogs are concerned
    Kiwiblog is probably seen as roughly equal in influence to The
    Standard, with neither really making much difference except to those
    already committed politically.

    Reasoned argument is getting scarcer, which suits the current
    government just fine.

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  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Monday, April 18, 2016 11:38:35
    On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:30:02 +1200, greybeard <nobody@nowhere.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 17/04/16 17:16, Rich80105 wrote:
    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official
    information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is
    still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done:
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html



    Try this site for politically twisted statistics...................

    http://www.childpoverty.co.nz/

    Perhaps you would prefer a government agency report: http://www.occ.org.nz/assets/Uploads/EAG/Final-report/Final-report-Solutions-to-child-poverty-evidence-for-action.pdf

    What were the specific issues you had with the website you referred
    to, greybeard?

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  • From greybeard@3:770/3 to All on Monday, April 18, 2016 11:30:02
    On 17/04/16 17:16, Rich80105 wrote:
    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official
    information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is
    still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html



    Try this site for politically twisted statistics...................

    http://www.childpoverty.co.nz/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 15:25:06
    On 18/04/2016 11:38 a.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:30:02 +1200, greybeard <nobody@nowhere.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 17/04/16 17:16, Rich80105 wrote:
    In an period of spin, blatant political manipulation of official
    information requests, removal of reporting that could be embarrassing,
    the replacement of journalism by public relations "sponsored
    articles", and straight lies, it is good that journalism in England is
    still alive enough to show us a little of how it is done:
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/2e43b3e8-01c7-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62.html >>>


    Try this site for politically twisted statistics...................

    http://www.childpoverty.co.nz/

    Perhaps you would prefer a government agency report: http://www.occ.org.nz/assets/Uploads/EAG/Final-report/Final-report-Solutions-to-child-poverty-evidence-for-action.pdf

    What were the specific issues you had with the website you referred
    to, greybeard?


    Thanks once again Rich. Yet another attack by you on National that shows
    the problem started rising in numbers while Labour was in power and
    guess what? It started happening when Labour dropped youth rates and
    pushed up the minimum wage by 25%. Two things Labour claimed would
    improve things for those on low wages. Funny how that policy resulted in increases in youth unemployment, unemployment in general and now you
    show us it pushed up poverty rates! Aren't we lucky Clark threw the 2008 election and put the country in Nationals hands.

    You did read the whole report didn't you Rich? Or did you avoid that
    because you knew your great and good Liebor party would be found to have
    shit on their shoes?

    Pooh

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