i played this slot machine at The Mirage.
This is very same type of machine my wife
won on over 5 years ago. One has a choice
of the settings, for example you can pick
blue seven, red seven, green seven and a
couple others. One of those others is one
called "WILD". I kid you not. This setting
pays the highest jackpot but is the most
difficult to get because comes up not so
often. Well shit it hit, so then you have
a chance to spin this wheel. At this point
you already know you have won some money. You
just don't know how much. But you're definitely
in the money. If it lands on jackpot you get
the progressive jackpot amount. That is what
my wife did 5 years ago. It paid $`17.5K, which
is a shitload of dinero for a penny slot machine.
Of course you have bet the max it get the big jackpot.
Which means every bet is $2.00. Well the wheel rolled
around to a $900 payoff for me. Shit it was sweet.
I was already out about 3 or 4 hundred bucks at this
point in the day. So it lifted me up a little. It's
great to win because the day before i got my assed kicked
so i went up to the room at seven to watch the Series.
Speaking of the Series, what a whopper a game last night.
God damn home run derby if i did see. Houston is good !
i played this slot machine at The Mirage.
This is very same type of machine my wife
won on over 5 years ago. One has a choice
of the settings, for example you can pick
blue seven, red seven, green seven and a
couple others. One of those others is one
called "WILD". I kid you not. This setting
pays the highest jackpot but is the most
difficult to get because comes up not so
often. Well shit it hit, so then you have
a chance to spin this wheel. At this point
you already know you have won some money. You
just don't know how much. But you're definitely
in the money. If it lands on jackpot you get
the progressive jackpot amount. That is what
my wife did 5 years ago. It paid $`17.5K, which
is a shitload of dinero for a penny slot machine.
Of course you have bet the max it get the big jackpot.
Which means every bet is $2.00. Well the wheel rolled
around to a $900 payoff for me. Shit it was sweet.
I was already out about 3 or 4 hundred bucks at this
point in the day. So it lifted me up a little. It's
great to win because the day before i got my assed kicked
so i went up to the room at seven to watch the Series.
Speaking of the Series, what a whopper a game last night.
God damn home run derby if i did see. Houston is good !
you do know that if you hit 173 million
you are throwing some kind of party, right?
send the limo too !
### - he wont hit shit!
never 'has' and never will!
i guarantee it :)
i played this slot machine at The Mirage.
This is very same type of machine my wife
won on over 5 years ago. One has a choice
of the settings, for example you can pick
blue seven, red seven, green seven and a
couple others. One of those others is one
called "WILD". I kid you not. This setting
pays the highest jackpot but is the most
difficult to get because comes up not so
often. Well shit it hit, so then you have
a chance to spin this wheel. At this point
you already know you have won some money. You
just don't know how much. But you're definitely
in the money. If it lands on jackpot you get
the progressive jackpot amount. That is what
my wife did 5 years ago. It paid $`17.5K, which
is a shitload of dinero for a penny slot machine.
Of course you have bet the max it get the big jackpot.
Which means every bet is $2.00. Well the wheel rolled
around to a $900 payoff for me. Shit it was sweet.
I was already out about 3 or 4 hundred bucks at this
point in the day. So it lifted me up a little. It's
great to win because the day before i got my assed kicked
so i went up to the room at seven to watch the Series.
Speaking of the Series, what a whopper a game last night.
God damn home run derby if i did see. Houston is good !
### - that's just WILD! heh + well done that man!
jeremy, in 'that' situation, of course would have backed anything *but*
WILD just on principle alone?
and lost! hah! :D
sorry jer... whether ya likes it or not WILD is apparently... a winner! ;)
$900! - a good/solid win!
viva la revolution! :)))
you do know that if you hit 173 million
you are throwing some kind of party, right?
send the limo too !
You don't really deserve a song that nice -
since it may be the most charming negative song ever. :)
And sure, it's everyone's song here - mine too.
However, I apologize for dinging you over 'ratings'.
Upon reflection I've decided that's silly.
Especially when I should have been dinging you for leaving
your own kids as if they're merely 'something you did once'.
That's probably where your true character is most evident.
Even if it may be more that they left you...
Is it alright if I switch over to criticizing you for that, instead?
A late-game substitution if you will.
LOL. :D
lacking in objectivity/so always has to make it personal wrote...
You don't really deserve a song that nice -
since it may be the most charming negative song ever. :)
And sure, it's everyone's song here - mine too.
However, I apologize for dinging you over 'ratings'.
Upon reflection I've decided that's silly.
Especially when I should have been dinging you for leaving
your own kids as if they're merely 'something you did once'.
That's probably where your true character is most evident.
Even if it may be more that they left you...
Is it alright if I switch over to criticizing you for that, instead?
A late-game substitution if you will.
LOL. :D
### - lol how old are you??
all you're doing is making yourself look completely ridiculous jeremy
deranged :)
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:17:08 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
lacking in objectivity/so always has to make it personal wrote...
You don't really deserve a song that nice -
since it may be the most charming negative song ever. :)
And sure, it's everyone's song here - mine too.
However, I apologize for dinging you over 'ratings'.
Upon reflection I've decided that's silly.
Especially when I should have been dinging you for leaving
your own kids as if they're merely 'something you did once'.
That's probably where your true character is most evident.
Even if it may be more that they left you...
Is it alright if I switch over to criticizing you for that, instead?
A late-game substitution if you will.
LOL. :D
### - lol how old are you??
all you're doing is making yourself look completely ridiculous jeremy
deranged :)
What's this shit Slider? The implication here is that you abandoned
your children in some way. Surely that's not true?
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:17:08 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
lacking in objectivity/so always has to make it personal wrote...
You don't really deserve a song that nice -
since it may be the most charming negative song ever. :)
And sure, it's everyone's song here - mine too.
However, I apologize for dinging you over 'ratings'.
Upon reflection I've decided that's silly.
Especially when I should have been dinging you for leaving
your own kids as if they're merely 'something you did once'.
That's probably where your true character is most evident.
Even if it may be more that they left you...
Is it alright if I switch over to criticizing you for that, instead?
A late-game substitution if you will.
LOL. :D
### - lol how old are you??
all you're doing is making yourself look completely ridiculous jeremy
deranged :)
What's this shit Slider? The implication here is that you abandoned
your children in some way. Surely that's not true?
On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 8:53:26 PM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:17:08 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
lacking in objectivity/so always has to make it personal wrote...
You don't really deserve a song that nice -
since it may be the most charming negative song ever. :)
And sure, it's everyone's song here - mine too.
However, I apologize for dinging you over 'ratings'.
Upon reflection I've decided that's silly.
Especially when I should have been dinging you for leaving
your own kids as if they're merely 'something you did once'.
That's probably where your true character is most evident.
Even if it may be more that they left you...
Is it alright if I switch over to criticizing you for that, instead?
A late-game substitution if you will.
LOL. :D
### - lol how old are you??
all you're doing is making yourself look completely ridiculous jeremy
deranged :)
What's this shit Slider? The implication here is that you abandoned
your children in some way. Surely that's not true?
Here's what Slider said quite recently (to you, actually):
"been married, had kids, the whole nine-yards...
don't really need to do it all again?"
That's virtually all he's ever had to say about his kids in 15 years.
As if they are just 'something he did once' and then left behind
(or perhaps got left behind).
Thang, for example, you take some pride in your children and
grandchildren, implying there are actual relationships there.
I often post things my son or Vicki's daughters are doing.
Slider never has. So ... does he have any significant relationship
with his kids? By his own words, and lack thereof, I doubt it.
I also don't think it's at all hard to surmise why. :)
***
As for all the "loner" stuff you guys love to throw around...
I delved into such views extensively, beginning back in adolescence,
and had gone well beyond any such "black and white thinking"
when I was still a relatively young man. Or, so I thought...
Neither of you have said a word about it that seemed even slightly interesting in all the years I've been listening to you yammer.
Let's see, the earliest book I read related to the subject that
influenced me was at around 14, when I read Demian by Herman Hesse,
at a time when that book seemed to parallel my own friendships
and experiences. My primary group of friends at that time was one
which in general regarded itself as being well outside all the
norms of society. In fact, it was almost like a small cult itself,
In truth, it wasn't very far outside the norms of society,
but that's how most of us perceived ourselves nonetheless,
and we self-identified as being more-or-less "outsider" individuals.
That was age 14.
As an aside, that is also true right now of both you and Slider, thang. Neither of you are truly very significantly outside the norms of society.
You just love to imagine otherwise and talk about it on and on.
Here's a review of that book in case you never read it. As an adolescent,
for a couple of years, it was important to me.
http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Demian-Hermann-Hesse-review-umotorppo
In any case, I was largely done with being attached to a limited
self-concept like "outsider" by around age 18. And in the counter-
culture, it was almost like all the "outsiders" had themselves
become the true "insiders". The "freaks" were everywhere and the
irony of this wasn't lost on me. :) I was by then already more like
a "chameleon" who could be almost anything as needed (I could go
anywhere I chose, "inside" or "outside" or wherever), and I saw
myself as being something so flexible that I'd never do myself the
disservice of limiting myself to any labeling. Or so I believed...
As one more example, I first read Dostoevsky's 'Notes from Underground'
when I was about 21, and then later (around 27, wrote a college paper
for an honors class on it). It is a more serious exploration of some
of the issues surrounding "being a loner".
Here's a New Yorker article on that book: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/can-dostoevsky-still-kick-you-in-the-gut
Bottom line is that "being a loner" can yield anything from
a beneficial genius to a dangerous moron, depending on exactly
how one thinks and on how one proceeds to live. In general,
as an arbitrarily assumed "position", I'd call it limiting.
But then... I began dreaming, and in the context of Castaneda.
From the viewpoint of that reality (before I had ever read
anything about lucid dreaming from a more standard perspective
like that of LaBerge), I began to conceive of myself as something
more like "the ultimate loner", to the point that I believed
I was really doing things very few if any other humans could do
(living under the auspices of 'the spirit'). My self-label then
became more of "an aspiration" than "an identity", and it was
to be "a solitary warrior". But trust me, if you come to actually
fervently believe you are independently as an individual following
'the guidelines of the spirit', then you have indeed become
something of "an outsider". I did, and I was. Or so I thought...
That belief turned out to be delusional. Importantly, the real
lesson is that pretty much ALL such beliefs are. As another even
more obvious example, trust me when I tell you that most of the Scientologists consider themselves to be well beyond ordinary
human beings in every way. In fact, they believe that almost all
ordinary humans are insane. They very much consider themselves
to be "outsiders" in that sense. Yet the perpetual joke is that
almost every "outsider" really thinks he's got "the inside scoop"
on reality.
They are delusional too, of course. Over the years, I've actually
encountered many different individuals who considered themselves
to be "outsiders" in one way or another. I've been close personal
friends with several such people over the years. While interesting,
I have to report that in my opinion NONE of them had any truly
special insight into the human condition.
So I have long seen the advantages and disadvantages connected
with this manner of self-characterization, in many different ways
in many different situations, and to me, you guys sound mostly
trite and stupid when you talk about it. :) Why? Because I feel
I largely transcended any such generic viewpoints long ago.
In a way, everyone is an outsider, since we are all individuals
who face our own individual death, and NONE of us has anything
even close to control over the whole of society. Similarly,
almost everyone is also an insider, since almost all of us rely
upon the systems of society for our own survival and benefit,
whatever unusual viewpoints we may hold.
I do not view any real-life issue exclusively as either an "insider"
or an "outsider". I stopped identifying with "us and them", although
when people band together AS a stereotype (such as "Republicans"),
it is all too easy to start seeing them as THEM. :)
However, I prefer to look carefully at any specific situations
staying largely free of ANY prison of self-conception or
self-labeling such as taking an "insider" or "outsider"
perspective. I try to see the whole of any situation and try
to arrive at the best points of view while remaining free of
pre-established positions to come up with the best solutions
for the whole of humanity and for myself as an individual
(they're not always the same).
In my opinion, if you haven't transcended labels like "insider"
and "outsider" by the time you're our age, then you have little
hope of ever seeing the complex reality of human social life
and existence. The day you guys say ONE thing that seems
profound about an "outsider", I'll be sure to let you know.
I don't need to manipulate dreams so that I can dive in
and hide from the light of day, which I why I believe you jumped from
the sinking raft Castenada onto another raft called lucid dreaming.
On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 01:25:18 -0000, thang ornerythinchus ><thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't need to manipulate dreams so that I can dive in
and hide from the light of day, which I why I believe you jumped from
the sinking raft Castenada onto another raft called lucid dreaming.
### - don't mean to interrupt as this is great stuff thang, but for a
minor correction: lucid dreaming actually WAS an intrinsic part OF the
whole castaneda thing and that's how jeremy came to learn lucid dreaming >himself, and actually became very good at it, at least according to him...
i say 'according to him' because we only ever have his word for it?
personally i don't believe him, else 'why' does he always but always
mention he's HAD a lucid dream whenever he has one, like he's surprised by >the event, only to then go on to assert stupid things like "doing it >naturally with no effort at all" to cover his ass?
truth is, there IS no 'effort' involved nor to be made with the 'kind' of >lucid dreaming jeremy says he can do (dilds & dilding) there's NO actual >technique involved as there IS for WILDS! there's no control as such, no >on/off switch! just the persistent effort to WANT it to happen and then >hoping for the best, which, rather amazingly, eventually works! and that's >what castaneda taught...
now, please carry-on 'deconstructing' his 'facade' as am really enjoying
this hehehe (payback IS a bitch eh jeremy? smile...)
plus, don't be at all surprised thang if/when jeremy turns on you in a
very nasty manner indeed in respect to some of your comments to/about him >heh, he doesn't at all believe he can be 'outed' and imho (and >observation...) you're actually doing very well :)
so please carry on!
I do believe conceptualizing oneself as an "outsider" and holding
onto that and wearing it like a badge IS an error best transcended.
That concept at various times became a significant issue in my life,
ah bullshit, you've read too much psychology crap.
Leave him alone, mind your own business.
For christ's sake, why attack people you
don't even know? You're too damn serious
some times. What are you tryin' to do?
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 05:37:48 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 01:25:18 -0000, thang ornerythinchus
<thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't need to manipulate dreams so that I can dive in
and hide from the light of day, which I why I believe you jumped from
the sinking raft Castenada onto another raft called lucid dreaming.
### - don't mean to interrupt as this is great stuff thang, but for a
minor correction: lucid dreaming actually WAS an intrinsic part OF the
whole castaneda thing and that's how jeremy came to learn lucid dreaming
himself, and actually became very good at it, at least according to
him...
i say 'according to him' because we only ever have his word for it?
personally i don't believe him, else 'why' does he always but always
mention he's HAD a lucid dream whenever he has one, like he's surprised
by
the event, only to then go on to assert stupid things like "doing it
naturally with no effort at all" to cover his ass?
truth is, there IS no 'effort' involved nor to be made with the 'kind'
of
lucid dreaming jeremy says he can do (dilds & dilding) there's NO actual
technique involved as there IS for WILDS! there's no control as such, no
on/off switch! just the persistent effort to WANT it to happen and then
hoping for the best, which, rather amazingly, eventually works! and
that's
what castaneda taught...
now, please carry-on 'deconstructing' his 'facade' as am really enjoying
this hehehe (payback IS a bitch eh jeremy? smile...)
plus, don't be at all surprised thang if/when jeremy turns on you in a
very nasty manner indeed in respect to some of your comments to/about
him
heh, he doesn't at all believe he can be 'outed' and imho (and
observation...) you're actually doing very well :)
so please carry on!
Slider I'm not doing this for an audience nor do I have a grudge
against Dave. I don't like his arrogance simple as that. Generally
people have an Achilles or even the proverbial "feet of clay" and
finding such with personae like Dave's creates much cognitive
dissonance - even though Dave will not, at fear of monumental collapse
of his psyche, *ever* admit. Even to himself.
I've basically said all I need anyhow. What I've said is true. He's
in a massive glass house, constructed of his past failures to find
meaning and more than that, his *need* to find meaning to his
existence which has not diminished but which, in light of his failure
to find it, is now demeaned by him as a psychic trick rather than
having to face up to the fact that he will never find what he's been
looking for. The fact that it's forever out of reach and his time is
very assuredly running out.
Being a resident of a very large and fragile glass house, he should
not throw stones.
ah bullshit, you've read too much psychology crap.
Leave him alone, mind your own business.
For christ's sake, why attack people you
don't even know? You're too damn serious
some times. What are you tryin' to do?
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 17:25:26 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud <allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
ah bullshit, you've read too much psychology crap.
Leave him alone, mind your own business.
For christ's sake, why attack people you
don't even know? You're too damn serious
some times. What are you tryin' to do?
And you're blind. Dave isn't averse to pointing out supposed (and
sometimes real) defects in others, why not return the favour?
I don't really know your history Chris but it seems you have intimate knowledge of Shorty as you call him so you were probably part of the
coterie which was sucked in by his grifting bullshit. Which means you probably also were sucked in by others, but that's pure supposition on
my part. Which means, you're not impartial because you're tainted by
the same crap.
Dave went for the jugular with Slider referring to his (slider's) kids
but I didn't hear you saying to Dave to "leave him alone". Dave went
for my throat really after I admonished you about your incessant
fucking north american ball game posting which frankly are as boring
as hell to me and to any other non-American posters here - his
attitude is way too condescending to leave it alone or to leave him
alone when his armour is paper thin and he dwells in one of the
biggest glass structures I've ever witnessed.
That, Chris, is what I'm "tryin' to do".
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud <allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:19:41 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
### - yeah riiiight...
LOL 'no one' could ever be YOUR equal could they jeremy! LOL!
arrogance much?? :D
methinks the whole nine yards and the goalposts too! hah...
your pomposity knows no bounds!
fuck off! :)
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:26:53 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:19:41 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thangornerythinchus
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
### - yeah riiiight...
LOL 'no one' could ever be YOUR equal could they jeremy! LOL!
arrogance much?? :D
methinks the whole nine yards and the goalposts too! hah...
your pomposity knows no bounds!
fuck off! :)
Me? Man, I've tried to fuck off at least 50 times. :)
For years and years now you've been initiating conversations
either with or about me.
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:05:39 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:26:53 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:19:41 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thangornerythinchus
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
### - yeah riiiight...
LOL 'no one' could ever be YOUR equal could they jeremy! LOL!
arrogance much?? :D
methinks the whole nine yards and the goalposts too! hah...
your pomposity knows no bounds!
fuck off! :)
Me? Man, I've tried to fuck off at least 50 times. :)
For years and years now you've been initiating conversations
either with or about me.
### - correcting your MANY grievous errors, intervening whenever you've
tried to HARM others, and calling you a miserable CUNT; were, fyi, NEVER attempts at conversation LOL!
you're a jerk! :)
fuck off :)
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 10:18:24 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:05:39 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:26:53 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:19:41 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thangornerythinchus
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
### - yeah riiiight...
LOL 'no one' could ever be YOUR equal could they jeremy! LOL!
arrogance much?? :D
methinks the whole nine yards and the goalposts too! hah...
your pomposity knows no bounds!
fuck off! :)
Me? Man, I've tried to fuck off at least 50 times. :)
For years and years now you've been initiating conversations
either with or about me.
### - correcting your MANY grievous errors, intervening whenever you've
tried to HARM others, and calling you a miserable CUNT; were, fyi, NEVER
attempts at conversation LOL!
you're a jerk! :)
fuck off :)
Too bad it doesn't end with: "This is a recording."
:)
(The mass murderer) "...is an injustice collector who spends a great deal of time feeling resentful about real or imagined rejections and ruminating on past humiliations. He has a paranoid worldview with chronic feelings of social persecution, envy, and grudge-holding. He is tormented by beliefs that privileged others are enjoying life’s all-you-can-eat buffet, while he must peer through the window, an outside loner always looking in."
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:50:02 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 2:25:45 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:
(The mass murderer) "...is an injustice collector who spends a great
deal
of time feeling resentful about real or imagined rejections and
ruminating
on past humiliations. He has a paranoid worldview with chronic feelings >> of
social persecution, envy, and grudge-holding. He is tormented by beliefs >> that privileged others are enjoying life’s all-you-can-eat buffet, while >> he must peer through the window, an outside loner always looking in."
An outsider or a loner. They actually used both words. LOL. :)
### - buzz off!
creep :)
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 4:11:47 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:50:02 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 2:25:45 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:feelings
(The mass murderer) "...is an injustice collector who spends a great
deal
of time feeling resentful about real or imagined rejections and
ruminating
on past humiliations. He has a paranoid worldview with chronic
beliefsof
social persecution, envy, and grudge-holding. He is tormented by
whilethat privileged others are enjoying life’s all-you-can-eat buffet,
he must peer through the window, an outside loner always looking in."
An outsider or a loner. They actually used both words. LOL. :)
### - buzz off!
creep :)
You practically supported my side of that last argument. :) Thanks.
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 2:25:45 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:
(The mass murderer) "...is an injustice collector who spends a great
deal
of time feeling resentful about real or imagined rejections and
ruminating
on past humiliations. He has a paranoid worldview with chronic feelings
of
social persecution, envy, and grudge-holding. He is tormented by beliefs
that privileged others are enjoying life’s all-you-can-eat buffet, while >> he must peer through the window, an outside loner always looking in."
An outsider or a loner. They actually used both words. LOL. :)
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:22:45 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan ><david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 10:18:24 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:05:39 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:26:53 AM UTC-8, slider wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:19:41 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thangornerythinchus
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
### - yeah riiiight...
LOL 'no one' could ever be YOUR equal could they jeremy! LOL!
arrogance much?? :D
methinks the whole nine yards and the goalposts too! hah...
your pomposity knows no bounds!
fuck off! :)
Me? Man, I've tried to fuck off at least 50 times. :)
For years and years now you've been initiating conversations
either with or about me.
### - correcting your MANY grievous errors, intervening whenever you've
tried to HARM others, and calling you a miserable CUNT; were, fyi, NEVER >>> attempts at conversation LOL!
you're a jerk! :)
fuck off :)
Too bad it doesn't end with: "This is a recording."
:)
### - i've had to intervene per the above so often and SO regularly it
might as WELL have BEEN a recording hah! :D
you've been doing the same old nasty shit to peeps for the last 20 years >jeremy! it's all there in black & white for 'anyone' to see pal! (want me
to pull endless amounts of it up??) and are now currently doing it to
thang too! it's ALL there! you even do it to your friends!
heh, you're what we here in the uk call a 'snide' jeremy :)
this (below) also directly applies to you from that report on nutters:
(The mass murderer) "...is an injustice collector who spends a great deal
of time feeling resentful about real or imagined rejections and ruminating
on past humiliations. He has a paranoid worldview with chronic feelings of >social persecution, envy, and grudge-holding. He is tormented by beliefs
that privileged others are enjoying life’s all-you-can-eat buffet, while
he must peer through the window, an outside loner always looking in."
sound familiar at all to yourself? - it should!
and NOW you want discussions/details of other people's... children??
wtf?? - maybe you like photos of children too?!
buzz-off!
creep :)
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:19:41 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
I don't need you to talk with me. I've said all that I want to say
and silence would probably be a suitable ending for our interaction.
You have considerable room for improvement and should not cast stones
when abiding in a house of glass. But, then, so do I. And Slider.
Perhaps the most unassuming of all here is Chris who, admirably, tries
to mellow things out.
Here's a book I've just uploaded for you - a nice amalgam of Buddhism
and psychoanalysis to fill that nasty empty void we all have. The
writer is a psychiatrist who is also an accomplished Buddhist...
https://ufile.io/rjlo6
Excerpt:
"In the Tibetan tradition of Buddhism, those moments of unknowing when
the mind is naturally loosed from its moorings are said to be special opportunities for realization. During orgasm, at the moment of death,
or while falling asleep or ending a dream are times when the veils of
knowing are spontaneously lifted and the underlying luminosity of the
mind shines through. But we have a powerful resistance to experiencing
this mind in all of its brilliance. We are afraid to let ourselves go
all the way. To set ourselves adrift requires a trust that for most of
us was lost in childhood."
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 5:19:06 PM UTC-8, thang ornerythinchus wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:19:41 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
I don't need you to talk with me. I've said all that I want to say
and silence would probably be a suitable ending for our interaction.
Definitely more suitable than that complete bullshit you tossed out
and absolutely INSISTED on. Unbelievable arrogance and blindness.
You have considerable room for improvement and should not cast stones
when abiding in a house of glass. But, then, so do I. And Slider.
None of us could ever be improved by anything like this, obviously. :)
Perhaps the most unassuming of all here is Chris who, admirably, tries
to mellow things out.
You've attacked him viciously and absurdly several times too.
Here's a book I've just uploaded for you - a nice amalgam of Buddhism
and psychoanalysis to fill that nasty empty void we all have. The
writer is a psychiatrist who is also an accomplished Buddhist...
https://ufile.io/rjlo6
Excerpt:
"In the Tibetan tradition of Buddhism, those moments of unknowing when
the mind is naturally loosed from its moorings are said to be special
opportunities for realization. During orgasm, at the moment of death,
or while falling asleep or ending a dream are times when the veils of
knowing are spontaneously lifted and the underlying luminosity of the
mind shines through. But we have a powerful resistance to experiencing
this mind in all of its brilliance. We are afraid to let ourselves go
all the way. To set ourselves adrift requires a trust that for most of
us was lost in childhood."
Yeah, Buddhism and psychoanalysis. Like I've never read any Buddhism.
Like it's still the dark ages and all we need is yet another cult. :)
I experience this "mind adrift" all the time. Like... yesterday most >recently. I don't need a guide. And if I did, it's sure as hell not you.
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 17:59:34 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 5:19:06 PM UTC-8, thang ornerythinchus wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:19:41 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"
wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT), whisperoutloud
<allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:
work on your self instead.
there's where change begins.
Forget about tryin' to change other people.
They will be just fine.
Fair comment. But Dave is so patronising sometimes...
Thang, you don't have the slightest idea how to help or change me.
You don't get what I've done in the past, or see where I am now.
Yet your arrogance and presumption is far worse than mine.
It's totally not worth it to even talk with you.
I don't need you to talk with me. I've said all that I want to say
and silence would probably be a suitable ending for our interaction.
Definitely more suitable than that complete bullshit you tossed out
and absolutely INSISTED on. Unbelievable arrogance and blindness.
Yep, except it was accurate. Your response demonstrates that. You
should treat it as a learning exercise. As for insistence, you ain't
seen me in insisting mode :)
This is just a NG. Chill out.
You have considerable room for improvement and should not cast stones
when abiding in a house of glass. But, then, so do I. And Slider.
None of us could ever be improved by anything like this, obviously. :)
Like what? My observations about your motivations? It was meant in a curative fashion. If you didn't take it that way, your loss.
At the end of the day we're all in the same boat and it's as leaky as
hell. You would do well Dave to recognise that fact. Call it
personal growth.
Perhaps the most unassuming of all here is Chris who, admirably, tries
to mellow things out.
You've attacked him viciously and absurdly several times too.
I wouldn't say absurdly. Actually, I wouldn't say viciously either.
He gave as good as he got and that too, for both "sides", was
ultimately positive.
He doesn't hold grudges. Nor do I. I don't think I can say that for
you.
Here's a book I've just uploaded for you - a nice amalgam of Buddhism
and psychoanalysis to fill that nasty empty void we all have. The
writer is a psychiatrist who is also an accomplished Buddhist...
https://ufile.io/rjlo6
Excerpt:
"In the Tibetan tradition of Buddhism, those moments of unknowing when
the mind is naturally loosed from its moorings are said to be special
opportunities for realization. During orgasm, at the moment of death,
or while falling asleep or ending a dream are times when the veils of
knowing are spontaneously lifted and the underlying luminosity of the
mind shines through. But we have a powerful resistance to experiencing
this mind in all of its brilliance. We are afraid to let ourselves go
all the way. To set ourselves adrift requires a trust that for most of
us was lost in childhood."
Yeah, Buddhism and psychoanalysis. Like I've never read any Buddhism.
Like it's still the dark ages and all we need is yet another cult. :)
I experience this "mind adrift" all the time. Like... yesterday most >recently. I don't need a guide. And if I did, it's sure as hell not you.
See you took that little gesture as an attack on your self as well.
For someone as well travelled along those esoteric paths you still
have a very fragile ego.
I didn't mean this as some sort of subtle
contempt or cynical attack on you in any way, the book is very
interesting and I thought you might gain from it. I am.
This guy is a practising psychiatrist who is also an accredited
psychoanalyst - he's a medical doctor with a specialty and a lot of
study and practice in eastern religious thought. It's not a "cult".
You're taking the "once bitten twice shy" thing way too far.
Read the damn thing, it's very good. And I'm just referring it to
you, I'm not making you read it or trying to guide you to read it.
Your anger is ridiculous. Cool down and have a chop at the book.
Btw, I attempted WILD a bit last night after waking up in the
middle of the night and getting some stable hypnagogic 'scenes' -
a few that remained intact, clear, and detailed for like...
30-45 seconds - long enough to try manipulating aspects of them -
but couldn't make the transition into a full dreaming scene. I've
succeeded a few times before, but it's always hard. I'm open to trying
it occasionally whenever the opportunity naturally arises, yet at the
same time seriously doubt it would change my views much even if I
got good at it.
Magic? MAGIC? Are you kidding me? You're still emotionally tied in
to him. He was a gifted conman and we all know they come unstuck
sooner or later. See, if you have a diamond with a few flaws in it,
it's next to worthless. His work may have been inspiring on face
value but you obviously lacked the cynicism at the time to see past
his presdigitation.
Then again, you met him and liaised with him and therefore came pretty
close to knowing him so your opinion of him holds more water than
mine. You're still amazed by him which is pretty cool. He helped
form your life evidently.
You say "largely untrue" - how can you
depend on any part of it being true if more than 50% of it was
probably untrue?
At best, he was an excellent storyteller. And don't cite Godwin to
me, but Hitler was also an excellent orator and storyteller and look
what happened to the world when the most civilised nation in Europe
became bewitched by him?
Yes, it's bullshit, but if you don't know Castaneda, then you've
missed one of the real all-time jewels of the world's bs esoterica.
By "know", you mean meeting him, as you did?
I have far too much respect for the
brevity of my remaining time on this bluegreen orb (in other words, it
would be a fucking waste of time - a shame you didn't realise that
before you went and wasted all that time).
Yes. But reading Castaneda isn't totally a waste of time.
If you can come to fully understand the illusions he created,
and the complexity of what really happened surrounding him,
then you gain the ability to see through almost anything.
So Cataneda gave you the ability to be cynical and sceptical?
His
deception was so deep and disappointing, caused you such psychic
injury, that you developed tools with which to counter others like him
or others who would try to use such methods of deception?
Is that what you're saying?
Merely knowing it was partially a scam is seeing only skin-deep.
What was under the skin if the scam was only the epidermis?
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:22:00 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Donovan" <jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com> wrote:
For example, psychiatrist Allen Frances warned in Psychology Today
that DSM 5 "will medicalize normality and result in a glut of
unnecessary and harmful drug prescription". He called DSM 5:
"the saddest moment in my 45 year career of studying, practicing,
and teaching psychiatry". He encouraged people to "be skeptical
and don't follow DSM 5 blindly down a road likely to lead to
massive over-diagnosis and harmful over-medication".
I agree with that as well. There is far too much over prescription of antidepressants (for over diagnosed depressive illness), anti-anxiety
drugs, anti-psychotic drugs and so on. But that's because of the
doctors who blindly mis-diagnose mental states as disease.
Lyrica is
a new drug for instance which is hugely over prescribed and
dangerously so.
You might want to consider such consequences before you lap up
all of that shit. Then again, you seem to love trying to beat down
people with phony diagnoses, so maybe you'd enjoy such a world.
I don't lap up all that shit. DSM is extremely useful for
*personality disorder* diagnosis. That was my main reason for
referring to it - the diagnosis of ASPD, schizoid personality
disorder, borderline personality disorder, malignant narcissistic
personality disorder and so on. Personality disorders are intriguing
because (a) they are innate and cannot be "cured"; (b) they rarely
disable, there are plenty of highly functional psychopaths (ASPD)
around, functional borderline personalities, functional narcissists,
the entire gamut. We are surrounded by them and we are, some of us, "sufferers" of these disorders (I used emphasis there because it is
generally those around such disordered personalities who suffer).
I find it useful to diagnose such personalities in my day to day life.
DSM has very useful tools when one studies the criteria. It's good to
know, really know, the people you deal with.
Conversely, a cherished member of our household grew up - all through >childhood and adolescence - being diagnosed as something that now,
as of DSM 5, no longer even exists. :o
Personality disorder or mental illness? I'm not aware that anything
in DSM V has been removed compared with DSM IV TR, only sharpened and
honed. Some have been added - autism spectrum for example. Others
have been combined - chronic major depressive disorder and the
previous dysthymic disorder for example, so you could say dysthymic
disorder has disappeared, but it hasn't, it's been subsumed.
I've uploaded the changes from DSM IV published by the American
Psychiatry Org here:
https://ufile.io/g9sbu
Feel free to show me the disorder which has disappeared. I don't know
who in your family once suffered it, nor do I care, so there shouldn't
be any impediment to you telling me which one has disappeared.
Can you imagine that? You grow up believing "I'm a this" because
important doctors said so, and then when you become an adult they
come back saying "sorry, um, never mind that one." And do you then
believe them if they say: "well, now you're a that", instead?
Fortunately, this person is now doing *great* without a "label". :)
You sound like an anti-vaxxer or an anti-fluoridator. Don't look now,
your "cultism" is showing :)
Here are additional comments Frances made:
"More than fifty mental health professional associations petitioned
for an outside review of DSM 5 to provide an independent judgment
of its supporting evidence and to evaluate the balance between
its risks and benefits. Professional journals, the press, and the
public also weighed in - expressing widespread astonishment about
decisions that sometimes seemed not only to lack scientific support
but also to defy common sense... Fortunately, some of its most
egregiously risky and unsupportable proposals were eventually
dropped under great external pressure."
But he proceeds to identify 10 diagnoses areas he thinks are bad.
This shit is only just barely becoming scientific, and I stand by
my skeptical view that a great deal of it is still pseudo-science.
Yet you once jumped to Carlos Castaneda's tune. This "shit" you
disparage so easily is followed by MILLIONS of medical doctors the
world over. Millions. There will always be dissenters, just like
there will always be flat-earthers, creationists and their ilk.
I thought you were better than that :(
On Saturday, November 11, 2017 at 7:35:48 PM UTC-8, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:22:00 -0800 (PST), "Jeremy H. Donovan"
<jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com> wrote:
For example, psychiatrist Allen Frances warned in Psychology Today
that DSM 5 "will medicalize normality and result in a glut of
unnecessary and harmful drug prescription". He called DSM 5:
"the saddest moment in my 45 year career of studying, practicing,
and teaching psychiatry". He encouraged people to "be skeptical
and don't follow DSM 5 blindly down a road likely to lead to
massive over-diagnosis and harmful over-medication".
I agree with that as well. There is far too much over prescription of
antidepressants (for over diagnosed depressive illness), anti-anxiety
drugs, anti-psychotic drugs and so on. But that's because of the
doctors who blindly mis-diagnose mental states as disease.
DSM definitions are a large part of what cleared the way
for such doctors to do so.
Lyrica is
a new drug for instance which is hugely over prescribed and
dangerously so.
You might want to consider such consequences before you lap up
all of that shit. Then again, you seem to love trying to beat down
people with phony diagnoses, so maybe you'd enjoy such a world.
I don't lap up all that shit. DSM is extremely useful for
*personality disorder* diagnosis. That was my main reason for
referring to it - the diagnosis of ASPD, schizoid personality
disorder, borderline personality disorder, malignant narcissistic
personality disorder and so on. Personality disorders are intriguing
because (a) they are innate and cannot be "cured"; (b) they rarely
disable, there are plenty of highly functional psychopaths (ASPD)
around, functional borderline personalities, functional narcissists,
the entire gamut. We are surrounded by them and we are, some of us,
"sufferers" of these disorders (I used emphasis there because it is
generally those around such disordered personalities who suffer).
I find it useful to diagnose such personalities in my day to day life.
DSM has very useful tools when one studies the criteria. It's good to
know, really know, the people you deal with.
Conversely, a cherished member of our household grew up - all through
childhood and adolescence - being diagnosed as something that now,
as of DSM 5, no longer even exists. :o
Personality disorder or mental illness? I'm not aware that anything
in DSM V has been removed compared with DSM IV TR, only sharpened and
honed. Some have been added - autism spectrum for example. Others
have been combined - chronic major depressive disorder and the
previous dysthymic disorder for example, so you could say dysthymic
disorder has disappeared, but it hasn't, it's been subsumed.
I've uploaded the changes from DSM IV published by the American
Psychiatry Org here:
https://ufile.io/g9sbu
Feel free to show me the disorder which has disappeared. I don't know
who in your family once suffered it, nor do I care, so there shouldn't
be any impediment to you telling me which one has disappeared.
Can you imagine that? You grow up believing "I'm a this" because
important doctors said so, and then when you become an adult they
come back saying "sorry, um, never mind that one." And do you then
believe them if they say: "well, now you're a that", instead?
Fortunately, this person is now doing *great* without a "label". :)
You sound like an anti-vaxxer or an anti-fluoridator. Don't look now,
your "cultism" is showing :)
Here are additional comments Frances made:
"More than fifty mental health professional associations petitioned
for an outside review of DSM 5 to provide an independent judgment
of its supporting evidence and to evaluate the balance between
its risks and benefits. Professional journals, the press, and the
public also weighed in - expressing widespread astonishment about
decisions that sometimes seemed not only to lack scientific support
but also to defy common sense... Fortunately, some of its most
egregiously risky and unsupportable proposals were eventually
dropped under great external pressure."
But he proceeds to identify 10 diagnoses areas he thinks are bad.
This shit is only just barely becoming scientific, and I stand by
my skeptical view that a great deal of it is still pseudo-science.
Yet you once jumped to Carlos Castaneda's tune. This "shit" you
disparage so easily is followed by MILLIONS of medical doctors the
world over. Millions. There will always be dissenters, just like
there will always be flat-earthers, creationists and their ilk.
I thought you were better than that :(
Allen Frances was the *chair* of the DSM IV Task Force. :)
I'm not going into the rest of it with you...
On Saturday, November 11, 2017 at 7:35:48 PM UTC-8, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
Magic? MAGIC? Are you kidding me? You're still emotionally tied in
to him. He was a gifted conman and we all know they come unstuck
sooner or later. See, if you have a diamond with a few flaws in it,
it's next to worthless. His work may have been inspiring on face
value but you obviously lacked the cynicism at the time to see past
his presdigitation.
I'm really not interested in arguing with you about anything.
I'm not kidding about the "magic", but I mean that metaphorically
and artistically, not literally. Castaneda started a whole new genre
that's still spreading all over the world. He gave rise to what
would become a whole new 'section' of materials in new age
bookstores - something almost like a new religion - under the general
label of "Toltec". And now there are dozens of "Toltec" cons
out there, not just one. So many spin-offs and tangents. And yet
very few of those are even half as artful as CC's original.
And it's only been 20 years since he died.
It's like a whole new potential branch of world religion that was
concocted in our time. (Scientology is another one.) Therefore,
one day it could possibly rise up to throttle the sanity of half
the world, just as Christianity and Islam have.
Then again, you met him and liaised with him and therefore came pretty
close to knowing him so your opinion of him holds more water than
mine. You're still amazed by him which is pretty cool. He helped
form your life evidently.
That's true. And I think his full story is remarkable
(in many different ways). Not that I admire him any more.
You say "largely untrue" - how can you
depend on any part of it being true if more than 50% of it was
probably untrue?
That is in fact one of the questions I always ask, but of course
everyone has his or her own views of what is "true" or "valuable".
Not everything in this world is purely factual or non-factual.
At best, he was an excellent storyteller. And don't cite Godwin to
me, but Hitler was also an excellent orator and storyteller and look
what happened to the world when the most civilised nation in Europe
became bewitched by him?
CC's story telling was more sophisticated in several ways.
I'm certainly not defending Castaneda, I just think it's important
to accurately understand everything he did, that's all - just as
it's important for the world to understand Hitler's distortions,
so they're not repeated over and over.
Yes, it's bullshit, but if you don't know Castaneda, then you've
missed one of the real all-time jewels of the world's bs esoterica.
By "know", you mean meeting him, as you did?
Not necessarily, but that did help one see the big picture, for sure.
One of the things that made him different was his support in academia,
and how he even took from and mirrored academic and traditional
philosophical concepts throughout his works. That's one aspect that
made it much more sophisticated than just being another con game.
I have far too much respect for the
brevity of my remaining time on this bluegreen orb (in other words, it
would be a fucking waste of time - a shame you didn't realise that
before you went and wasted all that time).
Yes. But reading Castaneda isn't totally a waste of time.
If you can come to fully understand the illusions he created,
and the complexity of what really happened surrounding him,
then you gain the ability to see through almost anything.
So Cataneda gave you the ability to be cynical and sceptical?
No, of course not.
His
deception was so deep and disappointing, caused you such psychic
injury, that you developed tools with which to counter others like him
or others who would try to use such methods of deception?
Is that what you're saying?
Not exactly, you're not really following. You seldom do.
I'm saying that the sophistication of the illusions CC created
when fully understood, almost gives one a new model by which
almost any religion or cult game can be more thoroughly deconstructed.
But you're not going to fully get that, since you haven't even read it,
much less experienced it or agonized over every aspect of it. :)
Merely knowing it was partially a scam is seeing only skin-deep.
What was under the skin if the scam was only the epidermis?
Well, how about DeMille? Have you read DeMille's books on Castaneda?
Probably not? Although DeMille made a lot of mistakes along the way,
he was also the first to make fairly clear how deep CC's game was...
I kept thinking I might write a book to continue and update that work
and fill in gaps DeMille missed. But my heart's not in it any more.
Half the people don't understand it anyway even after it's explained.
It's too damned "out there" and weird to seem that real or relevant.
Yet in the worlds of cults and religions, almost nothing is more
relevant or cuts more to the heart of what almost all that shit is.
CC is anything but a simple story of a "scam". It's far beyond that.
But you would be one of the last persons to whom I'd try to explain
in detail in just how many different ways it goes beyond that.
If I ever do finish the book I started writing about it all,
you can see it then. If not... who cares. You haven't even read the
books this group was originally about, and that's the main reason
I'm even still here, just to make sure no one fans the ashes to
light another big Castaneda fire under the world. Unlikely, but
stranger things have happened. Christianity didn't become dominant
until hundreds of years after its mythological figure bit the big one. :)
You are wrong however to compare in any way this talking-to-coyotes
and changing-to-crows to christianity. Christ never wrote a book, Castaneda did and sold 10 million copies of it and its sequels and
made a lot of money during his life. Millions died and killed for
Christ while I can't imagine anyone, ever, doing so for CC - unless
you count the couple of women who killed themselves "for" him (more
likely "because" of him).
You should ask his publisher and agent. It's takes more than two to
tango. He did have a little help from his special "friend$".
Castaneda is no phoenix. This NG would be more heavily populated if
that were the case.
Yep, he saw an opportunity to gull a heap of potential adherents and disciples and he didn't hesitate. He outlasted Lobsang Rampa and so
on but others were stronger - L.Ron Hubbard preceded him with
Dianetics but it transformed into Scientology and we all know where
that ended up (it's not going to put a stranglehold on humanity any
time soon either).
Well that's true at the deepest levels. Quantum indeterminacy and probabilistic states. Contrary to Einstein's famous faux pas, god
*does* play dice. At normal macro levels though everything is black
or white, the difficulty being cutting through human bullshit to get
to the truth. I do agree that value is generally subjective - if
there were more gold, it would be less valuable but not intrinsically
so. We need more colliding neutron stars...
Can't disagree with any of that. Was Castaneda any good at orating tolarge audiences? Hitler, Mussolini, Kennedy, even Obama had great
gifts of persuasion of large populations through public speaking - I
doubt Castaneda approached these masters of hyperbole.
Still a con game it was, just perpetrated by a more intelligent than
normal individual who happened to be a respected anthropologist with
some academic credentials digging (pun intended) in an area only
infrequently visited by his peers.
I'm interested in the fact you met him. Was that several times, or
any protracted times? Did he hold sway with glittering eyes which saw through you or speak with utter conviction (like the best conmen do)?
Did he have instant answers to questions by his disciples? Was he persuasive? Did you all do drugs together? Visit the jungles
together or ancient places of historic value together? Did he take or request donations? I'm intrigued...
Lol. That just developed as a consequence of aging. Me, I've always
been a cynic and a rule-breaker. I think I was born a sceptic but in
fact I was pretty gullible in some ways when I was young. We all
become cunts because we've had our trust in fellow man disappointed in
so many ways and so many times.
You're saying that by deconstructing the means by which you were
gulled by CC, you have a tool by which you can deconstruct most other religions or cults. I don't agree. The world's current religions are
old with hundreds of millions of adherents and believers who will die
for their beliefs - the buddhist priests who self immolated in South
Vietnam protesting against the American puppet dictators, the
Christians in the gladiatorial rings being eaten by wild animals, the
Muslims being killed by the thousands by the Crusaders. CC has, nor
ever will have, none of that. You can't take a tool you've somehow
baked out of CC's duplicity and apply it to huge, monumental bodies of
belief like the major and most minor religions. Or even to the more successful cults like Eckart Tolle's bullshit, Scientology and so on.
How predictably arrogant of you. Most people, the vast majority, just
don't fall for crap like this in the first place. They're too busy
being sucked in by societal propaganda and, being members of the herd, behaving appropriately.
No. You should move on now. Perhaps you should have moved on some
time ago. Put it in the "failed ideas" bin in your mind, I have such
a bin and it contains a lot of failed stuff too. I'm more than
willing to admit my failures in life, they've been a-plenty.
If I understand correctly you were in the heart of CC's innermost
group of adherents. To then see him fail and the con exposed would
harm you more than someone on the mere outskirts of his cult, or a
passing reader even less. I've asked some questions of you earlier in
this post and I'd appreciate, if it's not too painful for you, some
answers.
If you do finish the book, I would be interested in reading it.
Castaneda was the Godfather of the New Age movement according to Time,
the 20th century's most successful literary trickster according to
Salon, a conman who sucked in John Lennon, William Burroughs and Jim Morrison. You should complete it - you have plenty of time to do so,
so, do so. While Castaneda doesn't sell like he did when he died or
shortly thereafter, he still sells so there's some interest by
millennials I guess. Write your book and keep it short.
You are wrong however to compare in any way this talking-to-coyotes
and changing-to-crows to christianity. Christ never wrote a book,
Castaneda did and sold 10 million copies of it and its sequels and
made a lot of money during his life. Millions died and killed for
Christ while I can't imagine anyone, ever, doing so for CC - unless
you count the couple of women who killed themselves "for" him (more
likely "because" of him).
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