On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney <libertidad@south.south.com> >wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army -
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not
worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else they do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit they >typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against
current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not
convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why + completely out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened and is >happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about having >its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be planning an >attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining nato for >obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia is >pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because 'ukraine' >isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate it was, >only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the way it >currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal" after >they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last >concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it will >never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change their >thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation) they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and to drop >the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's fine...
that is until the next time ;)
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army -
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his
touch and losing his nerve.
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army -
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not
worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else they do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or
russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against
current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not
convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why + completely
out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened and is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about
having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be planning an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining nato
for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal"
after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it
will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation) they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's
fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore,
your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You
should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played.
And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney <libertidad@south.south.com> >wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a prerequisite >>>> for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army - >>>> a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up to >>>> defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not
worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else they do >>> in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or
russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am familiar >>> with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against
current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not
convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why + completely
out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened and is >>> happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about
having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be planning an >>> attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining nato
for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal"
after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it
will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation) they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's
fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore,
your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You
should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played.
And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it
while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's
your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even exist??
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:18:24 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall. >>>>> By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine >>>>> into forming a professional army, which has always been a
prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army >>>>> -
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up
to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into >>>>> NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his >>>>> touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not
worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else they
do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or
russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am
familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit
they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against
current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen
all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not
convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why + completely >>>> out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... as >>>> russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened and
is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about
having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be planning
an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining nato >>>> for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's
any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia
is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the
way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal"
after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're ever >>>> gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it
will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change
their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the
case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation)
they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's
fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore,
your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You
should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played.
And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it
while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's
your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even exist??
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
Nope, another prediction of war, doom and gloom by Brian, done/ruined.
I just wanted to see you eat crow :)
But, as usual, when proven completely wrong (imagine, Putin, fearing increased sanctions and perhaps the end of Nordstream as well, packs
up and scurries off) - Slider changes the subject, fails to
acknowledge his error, fails to acknowledge his failed worldview, and
doesn't respond to the appropriate post.
*That's* what the fuck I'm talking about lol
On Mon, 03 May 2021 11:27:31 +0100, o'Mahoney <libertidad@south.south.com> >wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:18:24 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation overall. >>>>>> By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke Ukraine >>>>>> into forming a professional army, which has always been a
prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional army >>>>>> -
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up >>>>>> to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of
soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive.
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing into >>>>>> NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing his >>>>>> touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not
worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that am >>>>> totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else they >>>>> do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or
russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am
familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit
they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against >>>>> current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen
all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not
convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why + completely >>>>> out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... as >>>>> russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened and >>>>> is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about
having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be planning >>>>> an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining nato >>>>> for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's
any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia >>>>> is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate it >>>>> was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the
way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal"
after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're ever >>>>> gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it >>>>> will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change
their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the
case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation)
they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and to >>>>> drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's
fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore,
your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You
should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played.
And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and perhaps >>>> even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it
while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's
your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even exist?? >>>
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
Nope, another prediction of war, doom and gloom by Brian, done/ruined.
I just wanted to see you eat crow :)
### - you were just complaining then haha... i mean, am allowed to say >anything i want really in any way i want to say it... which, i suggested,
was actually more along the lines of 'speculation' rather than assertion >(i.e., i wasn't saying it 'would' or 'will' happen for certain, only that
it potentially 'risked' such a confrontation)
But, as usual, when proven completely wrong (imagine, Putin, fearing
increased sanctions and perhaps the end of Nordstream as well, packs
up and scurries off) - Slider changes the subject, fails to
acknowledge his error, fails to acknowledge his failed worldview, and
doesn't respond to the appropriate post.
*That's* what the fuck I'm talking about lol
### - your remarks suggested an 'assertion' on my part which you took >exception to, only that's not quite where i was coming from... coz i was
only suggesting that it 'could' lead to a confrontation, that it risked >that... there IS a difference!
and that's not enough for you to start telling me off, which is what *i*
then took exception to haha :)))
i.e., i was actually only speculating on what 'could' happen, i wasn't
saying it 'would' happen for sure... and thus you had no real right to get >annoyed and start calling me names haha :)))
(basically, you got annoyed at the subject matter per se and jumped down
my throat for nada when i was actually only being completely objective
about the whole thing)
there was no 'proof' either way :)
On Mon, 03 May 2021 12:42:04 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2021 11:27:31 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:18:24 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation
overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke
Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a
prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional
army
-
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up >>>>>>> to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of >>>>>>> soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive. >>>>>>>
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing
into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing >>>>>>> his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not >>>>>> worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that >>>>>> am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else
they
do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or >>>>>> russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am
familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit >>>>>> they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against >>>>>> current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen >>>>>> all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not >>>>>> convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why +
completely
out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... >>>>>> as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened
and
is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about >>>>>> having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be
planning
an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining
nato
for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's >>>>>> any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia >>>>>> is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate >>>>>> it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the >>>>>> way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal" >>>>>> after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're
ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it >>>>>> will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change
their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the
case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation)
they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and >>>>>> to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's >>>>>> fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore, >>>>> your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You >>>>> should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played. >>>>> And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and
perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it
while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's >>>> your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even
exist??
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
Nope, another prediction of war, doom and gloom by Brian, done/ruined.
I just wanted to see you eat crow :)
### - you were just complaining then haha... i mean, am allowed to say
anything i want really in any way i want to say it... which, i
suggested,
was actually more along the lines of 'speculation' rather than assertion
(i.e., i wasn't saying it 'would' or 'will' happen for certain, only
that
it potentially 'risked' such a confrontation)
But, as usual, when proven completely wrong (imagine, Putin, fearing
increased sanctions and perhaps the end of Nordstream as well, packs
up and scurries off) - Slider changes the subject, fails to
acknowledge his error, fails to acknowledge his failed worldview, and
doesn't respond to the appropriate post.
*That's* what the fuck I'm talking about lol
### - your remarks suggested an 'assertion' on my part which you took
exception to, only that's not quite where i was coming from... coz i was
only suggesting that it 'could' lead to a confrontation, that it risked
that... there IS a difference!
and that's not enough for you to start telling me off, which is what *i*
then took exception to haha :)))
i.e., i was actually only speculating on what 'could' happen, i wasn't
saying it 'would' happen for sure... and thus you had no real right to
get
annoyed and start calling me names haha :)))
(basically, you got annoyed at the subject matter per se and jumped down
my throat for nada when i was actually only being completely objective
about the whole thing)
there was no 'proof' either way :)
Pretty civil response there, you've changed your ways somewhat. Good
to see.
Perhaps we can have a more focused discussion on the political and
economic reality of 21st century warfare and the probabilities thereof
at some point. I'm always willing to concede a point when proven.
Seems you're coming around to that as well.
On Mon, 03 May 2021 12:42:04 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2021 11:27:31 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:18:24 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation
overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke
Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a
prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional
army
-
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of
conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up >>>>>>> to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of >>>>>>> soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive. >>>>>>>
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing
into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing >>>>>>> his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not >>>>>> worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that >>>>>> am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else
they
do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or >>>>>> russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me
anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am
familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit >>>>>> they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against >>>>>> current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen >>>>>> all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not >>>>>> convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why +
completely
out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... >>>>>> as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened
and
is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about >>>>>> having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be
planning
an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining
nato
for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's >>>>>> any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia >>>>>> is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because
'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate >>>>>> it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the >>>>>> way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal" >>>>>> after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're
ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it >>>>>> will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change
their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the
case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation)
they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and >>>>>> to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's >>>>>> fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore, >>>>> your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You >>>>> should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played. >>>>> And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and
perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this
sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it
while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's >>>> your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even
exist??
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
Nope, another prediction of war, doom and gloom by Brian, done/ruined.
I just wanted to see you eat crow :)
### - you were just complaining then haha... i mean, am allowed to say
anything i want really in any way i want to say it... which, i
suggested,
was actually more along the lines of 'speculation' rather than assertion
(i.e., i wasn't saying it 'would' or 'will' happen for certain, only
that
it potentially 'risked' such a confrontation)
But, as usual, when proven completely wrong (imagine, Putin, fearing
increased sanctions and perhaps the end of Nordstream as well, packs
up and scurries off) - Slider changes the subject, fails to
acknowledge his error, fails to acknowledge his failed worldview, and
doesn't respond to the appropriate post.
*That's* what the fuck I'm talking about lol
### - your remarks suggested an 'assertion' on my part which you took
exception to, only that's not quite where i was coming from... coz i was
only suggesting that it 'could' lead to a confrontation, that it risked
that... there IS a difference!
and that's not enough for you to start telling me off, which is what *i*
then took exception to haha :)))
i.e., i was actually only speculating on what 'could' happen, i wasn't
saying it 'would' happen for sure... and thus you had no real right to
get
annoyed and start calling me names haha :)))
(basically, you got annoyed at the subject matter per se and jumped down
my throat for nada when i was actually only being completely objective
about the whole thing)
there was no 'proof' either way :)
Pretty civil response there, you've changed your ways somewhat. Good
to see.
Perhaps we can have a more focused discussion on the political and
economic reality of 21st century warfare and the probabilities thereof
at some point. I'm always willing to concede a point when proven.
Seems you're coming around to that as well.
On Fri, 07 May 2021 06:15:52 +0100, o'Mahoney <libertidad@south.south.com> >wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2021 12:42:04 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2021 11:27:31 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:18:24 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 04:07:42 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 02:39:18 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 01:09:26 +0100, o'Mahoney
<libertidad@south.south.com>
wrote:
It occurs to me that Putin has badly misjudged the situation
overall.
By withdrawing the Russian troops from the Ukraine border and
presumably from the Crimea, all he has achieved is to provoke
Ukraine
into forming a professional army, which has always been a
prerequisite
for entry into NATO.
NATO will not take any state which does not have a professional >>>>>>>> army
-
a professional army being an army of volunteers, not an army of >>>>>>>> conscripts. NATO wants soldiers and airmen and sailors who sign up >>>>>>>> to
defend their countries voluntarily. Those are the best types of >>>>>>>> soldiers and utterly necessary if NATO wants to remain cohesive. >>>>>>>>
Putin has now accomplished this with Ukraine, basically playing >>>>>>>> into
NATO's hands. It must be an age related thing - Putin is losing >>>>>>>> his
touch and losing his nerve.
### - see? it's fun to speculate isn't it hehehe :)))
what you're perhaps not taking into account though, is that am not >>>>>>> worshiping anybody or anything, that am not on anyone's side, that >>>>>>> am
totally objective & detached about all this (and everything else >>>>>>> they
do
in wallyworld) and as such couldn't give a rats-arse about putin or >>>>>>> russia
or nato either because they all seem/look completely insane to me >>>>>>> anyway... am merely an 'observer' only!
otoh, i've been observing wallyworld for nearly 70 years and am
familiar
with the way things tend to go in crazyville and the kinds of shit >>>>>>> they
typically get up to, so i can pit what i've seen in the past against >>>>>>> current affairs and intelligently speculate about what's maybe
happening...
that i understand humanity quite well because of that and have seen >>>>>>> all
their crap before a dozen times over...
and yes russia is pulling back and that's a good thing! only am not >>>>>>> convinced it's over by a long chalk, at least not yet! :)
grandstanding it may in fact have been, although just why +
completely
out
of the blue they should do so to such a degree is another matter... >>>>>>> as
russia never does anything for nada!
and that accordingly, there's a good reason why this has happened >>>>>>> and
is
happening!
e.g., ukraine isn't at all happy about having lost crimea nor about >>>>>>> having
its southern regions occupied in which case they may well be
planning
an
attempt to regain them, that russia wont tolerate ukraine joining >>>>>>> nato
for
obvious reasons, that ukraine wont be welcomed into nato if there's >>>>>>> any
kind of conflict going on as per nato's policy...
and russia grandstanding is just part of it...
am personally not convinced it's all over though just because russia >>>>>>> is
pulling back from such a massive show of 'force', mainly because >>>>>>> 'ukraine'
isn't done with all this yet!
the best we can hope for is that it all goes back to the stalemate >>>>>>> it
was,
only we also know ukraine isn't at all happy with the situation the >>>>>>> way
it
currently is and may well be planning something!
that nato itself may well be planning something!
obama's words again ringing in my ears about "it's not a done deal" >>>>>>> after
they annexed crimea leading me to consider just what then they're >>>>>>> ever
gonna do about it!
that defeating russia, china & islam is 'still' the west's last
concern/obstacle in the world domination stakes, and as such that it >>>>>>> will
never BE over until they've either won the day OR learn to change >>>>>>> their
thinking!
am personally hopeful for the latter eventully being/becoming the >>>>>>> case,
it's just highly unlikely is all because imho (and observation)
they're
all completely insane anyway! :)
anyway, russia has clearly signaled a willingness to pull back and >>>>>>> to
drop
the matter, and if ukraine (and the west) does the same then that's >>>>>>> fine...
that is until the next time ;)
Slider you haven't responded to the appropriate threads. Therefore, >>>>>> your response here is not appropriate (ie off topic) to my post. You >>>>>> should respond to the appropriate topics, that's courtesy.
All I posted here, my topic, was the effect of what Putin has played. >>>>>> And my supposition that the outcome was unplanned by Putin and
perhaps
even a spasm or involutary response to the crowding of Russia's
borders by Nato and unfriendly former-slave-states like Ukraine.
Can you please respond to the appropriate threads? I don't do this >>>>>> sort of thing and neither should you.
### - wtf are you talking about now??
have responded to this same thread and the points you've raised in it >>>>> while considering everything that's gone before...
i do things the way i like and want, just as do you...
if you can't follow what am saying and/or why am saying it then that's >>>>> your problem not mine.
you're just making shit up now to make trouble that doesn't even
exist??
just stick to the subject matter ffs!
and stop telling people what to do!
geez...
'another' conversation done/ruined!
Nope, another prediction of war, doom and gloom by Brian, done/ruined. >>>>
I just wanted to see you eat crow :)
### - you were just complaining then haha... i mean, am allowed to say
anything i want really in any way i want to say it... which, i
suggested,
was actually more along the lines of 'speculation' rather than assertion >>> (i.e., i wasn't saying it 'would' or 'will' happen for certain, only
that
it potentially 'risked' such a confrontation)
But, as usual, when proven completely wrong (imagine, Putin, fearing
increased sanctions and perhaps the end of Nordstream as well, packs
up and scurries off) - Slider changes the subject, fails to
acknowledge his error, fails to acknowledge his failed worldview, and
doesn't respond to the appropriate post.
*That's* what the fuck I'm talking about lol
### - your remarks suggested an 'assertion' on my part which you took
exception to, only that's not quite where i was coming from... coz i was >>> only suggesting that it 'could' lead to a confrontation, that it risked
that... there IS a difference!
and that's not enough for you to start telling me off, which is what *i* >>> then took exception to haha :)))
i.e., i was actually only speculating on what 'could' happen, i wasn't
saying it 'would' happen for sure... and thus you had no real right to
get
annoyed and start calling me names haha :)))
(basically, you got annoyed at the subject matter per se and jumped down >>> my throat for nada when i was actually only being completely objective
about the whole thing)
there was no 'proof' either way :)
Pretty civil response there, you've changed your ways somewhat. Good
to see.
Perhaps we can have a more focused discussion on the political and
economic reality of 21st century warfare and the probabilities thereof
at some point. I'm always willing to concede a point when proven.
Seems you're coming around to that as well.
### - sounds good to moi :)
so let's see how you/we handle this one then ok?
i.e., try to keep your own personal biases aside enough to discuss this >completely objectively regardless of the source (have picked this one
because it covers all the salient points & facts from all sides, which in >this instance i reckon is actually fairly accurate/inclusive...)
The end of strategic ambiguity? America has finally stopped pretending it >would risk war with Russia over supposed ‘ally’ Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/523253-ukraine-usa-strategic-ambiguity/
Would the US go to war with Russia over Ukraine? As tensions escalate
between Moscow and Kiev, some have warned that the latter’s ‘alliance’ >with Washington could spiral into a conflict between the two main nuclear >superpowers.
Except, of course, there is no alliance between the US and Ukraine. This >week, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken effectively ended the notion
that Ukraine has Western backers ready to step in at a moment’s notice if >it finds itself under attack.
Pressed on whether American forces could be sent into battle against
Russian troops to support Kiev in the event of war in an interview with >MSNBC, he answered only that Washington is committed to “helping Ukraine >defend itself.”
In other words, no. Indeed, with these words, Blinken backed up suspicions
in Moscow that Washington stands ready to fight Moscow down to the very
last Ukrainian, but would never risk its own troops.
It is difficult to overstate the importance of the secretary of state’s >response, which has effectively ended a calculated policy of strategic >ambiguity over Ukraine. For years, the State Department has been reluctant
to be drawn on just how far it would go for the Eastern European nation,
and whether it would send its own soldiers into battle for its supposed
ally.
The fact that mask has slipped now fundamentally changes the nature of the >situation. It comes as the White House has also seemingly pivoted its
foreign policy in the region by revising a section in an official
transcript to play down the prospect of Ukraine joining the NATO military >bloc. After turning to the West following the 2014 Maidan, Kiev has played
up its credentials with the EU and US, emphasizing the importance of its >‘alliances’ and its role as a vanguard against supposed Russian aggression >towards Central Europe. That argument is now based on less and less
evidence.
The gamble of strategic ambiguity
Strategic ambiguity, neither confirming nor denying your red lines and >potential responses, is often an ideal approach when it concerns the
defense of an ally or partner such as Ukraine. Most notably, the US has >applied a similar approach to Taiwan.
Suggesting that Washington may provide direct support intends to deter >adversarial states like Russia and China, as the added uncertainty about
the US response makes it hard to predict how a situation might escalate.
Strategic ambiguity is preferable to making firm commitments to defend its >partners for two main reasons – first, the US would lose its credibility
in the arena of global security if a war broke out and it decided at the
last minute to not live up to its commitments. Second, offering firm
promises of support could encourage states like Ukraine or Taiwan to
pursue bolder and more aggressive strategies.
(see above link for the full article which is much longer/extensive and >covers all the salient points in depth...)
(slider thus knocks the ball over the net to thang, underarm-style, in
order to first test thang's backhand return...)
anyone for tennis? ;)
My opinion is that there will be no need for the US to fight Russia
should Russia attempt a large scale offensive against the Donbass
region and/or a landbridge between the Crimean Peninsula and Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are outmatched but will fight Russia with vigour and
the entirety of NATO (with the possible exception of the US) will
assist.
This so called "strategic ambiguity" is a very old concept - keep the
enemy guessing, make feints, smoke and fog, do whatever is necessary
to keep the enemy off balance and to win! Clausewicz and Sun Tzu, all
the others, all state "win by any means, fair or foul" and this so
called "strategic ambiguity" is part of that deadly serious game.
I can't predict what Putin will do but I do know this - the US
military stands alone on the planet as the single most powerful force
not only now, but ever in human history. The Russians would be no
match for the US and they know it. It's therefore unlikely, as Putin
intends to be around for the next 30 years, that he will foment a war
or RISK a war with the most powerful military on earth. He's not that
stupid.
So, in that sense, "strategic ambiguity" makes perfect sense. Keep
Putin guessing and there is no way that he will risk everything he has
worked for, his own billions and his oligarchic friends' billions, in
a war with the one and only superpower.
That's my 2 dollars' worth...
### - it's too easy to just blame it all on the russians though no?
Well I'm not blaming the Russians in this case. For instance, *half*
the entire Russian BUDGET comes from energy supplies to Europe. There
is no way that Putin would risk Nordstream 2, which is almost
completed anyway, and the pragmatic Biden admin has therefore resisted pressure to sanction the oligarch(s) who are funding the construction
of this massive pipeline. There's simply no need when Putin relies so
much, and will continue to rely so much, on energy sales to several
hundre million wealthy Europeans.
There will be no war with Russia and therefore no need to blame
Russia. The war will be with China.
truth is, they're just a competing ideology and it's us (the west i
mean)
that's actually waging an ideological war upon THEM! ditto china AND
islam!
Forget Russia and Islam. Peanuts. The real conflict will be in the
Pacific with China and a heap of other countries, including yours and
mine.
and because i don't agree that 'might is right', mainly because that's
precisely how ya end up with the 'rule-of-fist' as opposed to the rule
of
reason!
But might is right has always been the way. Can I refer you to the
Melian Dialogues? You can read them here - they are simply astounding (although Thucydides did not actually witness the negotiations):
Here it is in pdf:
http://fs2.american.edu/dfagel/www/Class%20Readings/Thucydides/Melian%20Dialogues.pdf
Read the logic of the Greeks in full force as a power of war between non-equals...
no one 'wants' global annihilation! (no one sane does anyway) and yet
that's precisely what we increasingly risk at every turn by insisting
that
'our' way is better than any other way instead of intelligently taking
the
best bits from all of them and coming up with something less
competitive?
Hitler and Stalin would have detonated nukes all over the place if
they had gotten to them first. We have saner people in power now,
even in Russia.
iow: live and LET live, as opposed to: do things OUR way fucker or we'll
blast ya off the face of the earth! ;)
I don't agree. Rather, don't try to blast US off the face of the
earth or we will do the same to YOU.
(had to trim this to get it past my server's limitation...)
My opinion is that there will be no need for the US to fight Russia
should Russia attempt a large scale offensive against the Donbass
region and/or a landbridge between the Crimean Peninsula and Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are outmatched but will fight Russia with vigour and
the entirety of NATO (with the possible exception of the US) will
assist.
This so called "strategic ambiguity" is a very old concept - keep the
enemy guessing, make feints, smoke and fog, do whatever is necessary
to keep the enemy off balance and to win! Clausewicz and Sun Tzu, all >>>> the others, all state "win by any means, fair or foul" and this so
called "strategic ambiguity" is part of that deadly serious game.
I can't predict what Putin will do but I do know this - the US
military stands alone on the planet as the single most powerful force
not only now, but ever in human history. The Russians would be no
match for the US and they know it. It's therefore unlikely, as Putin
intends to be around for the next 30 years, that he will foment a war
or RISK a war with the most powerful military on earth. He's not that >>>> stupid.
So, in that sense, "strategic ambiguity" makes perfect sense. Keep
Putin guessing and there is no way that he will risk everything he has >>>> worked for, his own billions and his oligarchic friends' billions, in
a war with the one and only superpower.
That's my 2 dollars' worth...
### - it's too easy to just blame it all on the russians though no?
Well I'm not blaming the Russians in this case. For instance, *half*
the entire Russian BUDGET comes from energy supplies to Europe. There
is no way that Putin would risk Nordstream 2, which is almost
completed anyway, and the pragmatic Biden admin has therefore resisted
pressure to sanction the oligarch(s) who are funding the construction
of this massive pipeline. There's simply no need when Putin relies so
much, and will continue to rely so much, on energy sales to several
hundre million wealthy Europeans.
There will be no war with Russia and therefore no need to blame
Russia. The war will be with China.
### - looks like russia's main interest has been to keep ukraine out of
nato for all the obvious reasons...
truth is, they're just a competing ideology and it's us (the west i
mean)
that's actually waging an ideological war upon THEM! ditto china AND
islam!
Forget Russia and Islam. Peanuts. The real conflict will be in the
Pacific with China and a heap of other countries, including yours and
mine.
### - wouldn't call russian and islam peanuts exactly, as both are capable
of delivering us all into a ww3 situation if things ever got outta hand...
if there's war with china (which i doubt) it'll only be because we (the
west) starts it, coz all china has to do is to sit tight and keep growing
and wait until they literally own everything in 100 years via economic >growth...
the future thus looks chinese? ;)
and because i don't agree that 'might is right', mainly because that's
precisely how ya end up with the 'rule-of-fist' as opposed to the rule
of
reason!
But might is right has always been the way. Can I refer you to the
Melian Dialogues? You can read them here - they are simply astounding
(although Thucydides did not actually witness the negotiations):
Here it is in pdf:
http://fs2.american.edu/dfagel/www/Class%20Readings/Thucydides/Melian%20Dialogues.pdf
Read the logic of the Greeks in full force as a power of war between
non-equals...
### - might being right only goes so far before it always disappears up
its own dirtbox, it sows the seeds of its own destruction every time...
imho, we either evolve now beyond all that old thinking or we wont get
much farther...
no one 'wants' global annihilation! (no one sane does anyway) and yet
that's precisely what we increasingly risk at every turn by insisting
that
'our' way is better than any other way instead of intelligently taking
the
best bits from all of them and coming up with something less
competitive?
Hitler and Stalin would have detonated nukes all over the place if
they had gotten to them first. We have saner people in power now,
even in Russia.
### - 'mutually assured destruction' (the MAD treaty) is the clear >realisation that no one can ever win a nuclear war, the old thinking ends >right there... with ever-dwindling resources we either learn to share or >stagnate...
iow: live and LET live, as opposed to: do things OUR way fucker or we'll >>> blast ya off the face of the earth! ;)
I don't agree. Rather, don't try to blast US off the face of the
earth or we will do the same to YOU.
### - either way it would be collective suicide, so new thinking is
required ;)
On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:51:15 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
(had to trim this to get it past my server's limitation...)
My opinion is that there will be no need for the US to fight Russia
should Russia attempt a large scale offensive against the Donbass
region and/or a landbridge between the Crimean Peninsula and Ukraine. >>>>> The Ukrainians are outmatched but will fight Russia with vigour and
the entirety of NATO (with the possible exception of the US) will
assist.
This so called "strategic ambiguity" is a very old concept - keep the >>>>> enemy guessing, make feints, smoke and fog, do whatever is necessary >>>>> to keep the enemy off balance and to win! Clausewicz and Sun Tzu,
all
the others, all state "win by any means, fair or foul" and this so
called "strategic ambiguity" is part of that deadly serious game.
I can't predict what Putin will do but I do know this - the US
military stands alone on the planet as the single most powerful force >>>>> not only now, but ever in human history. The Russians would be no
match for the US and they know it. It's therefore unlikely, as Putin >>>>> intends to be around for the next 30 years, that he will foment a war >>>>> or RISK a war with the most powerful military on earth. He's not
that
stupid.
So, in that sense, "strategic ambiguity" makes perfect sense. Keep
Putin guessing and there is no way that he will risk everything he
has
worked for, his own billions and his oligarchic friends' billions, in >>>>> a war with the one and only superpower.
That's my 2 dollars' worth...
### - it's too easy to just blame it all on the russians though no?
Well I'm not blaming the Russians in this case. For instance, *half*
the entire Russian BUDGET comes from energy supplies to Europe. There
is no way that Putin would risk Nordstream 2, which is almost
completed anyway, and the pragmatic Biden admin has therefore resisted
pressure to sanction the oligarch(s) who are funding the construction
of this massive pipeline. There's simply no need when Putin relies so
much, and will continue to rely so much, on energy sales to several
hundre million wealthy Europeans.
There will be no war with Russia and therefore no need to blame
Russia. The war will be with China.
### - looks like russia's main interest has been to keep ukraine out of
nato for all the obvious reasons...
No Russia's main interest is to correlate absolutely with the will and desires of the dictator, Putin. That may change as poverty and
jealousy of the west infiltrates the hardy people of that land.
truth is, they're just a competing ideology and it's us (the west i
mean)
that's actually waging an ideological war upon THEM! ditto china AND
islam!
Forget Russia and Islam. Peanuts. The real conflict will be in the
Pacific with China and a heap of other countries, including yours and
mine.
### - wouldn't call russian and islam peanuts exactly, as both are
capable
of delivering us all into a ww3 situation if things ever got outta
hand...
if there's war with china (which i doubt) it'll only be because we (the
west) starts it, coz all china has to do is to sit tight and keep
growing
and wait until they literally own everything in 100 years via economic
growth...
the future thus looks chinese? ;)
No because Xi wants it all and he wants it now. Can you even imagine
how many literal corpses this cunt has clambered over to get to the
top of the CCP?
In 100 years as you say, he will be dead and that is of no use to him
at all. He is atheist so no afterlife for him. He wants it now and
that mean, war. And he knows it.
So does Biden and even Trump knew that. Even the American Johnson,
who by the way is part Jew and therefore has an allegiance with the
Zionists, is sending warships to the Pacific pending what he knows
will happen.
and because i don't agree that 'might is right', mainly because that's >>>> precisely how ya end up with the 'rule-of-fist' as opposed to the rule >>>> of
reason!
But might is right has always been the way. Can I refer you to the
Melian Dialogues? You can read them here - they are simply astounding
(although Thucydides did not actually witness the negotiations):
Here it is in pdf:
http://fs2.american.edu/dfagel/www/Class%20Readings/Thucydides/Melian%20Dialogues.pdf
Read the logic of the Greeks in full force as a power of war between
non-equals...
### - might being right only goes so far before it always disappears up
its own dirtbox, it sows the seeds of its own destruction every time...
imho, we either evolve now beyond all that old thinking or we wont get
much farther...
You didn't read the Dialogues, did you? It won't take long. Just
focus for a little while and you will definitely be rewarded by how
callous the cruel equations of dominance and aggression can be.
no one 'wants' global annihilation! (no one sane does anyway) and yet
that's precisely what we increasingly risk at every turn by insisting
that
'our' way is better than any other way instead of intelligently taking >>>> the
best bits from all of them and coming up with something less
competitive?
Hitler and Stalin would have detonated nukes all over the place if
they had gotten to them first. We have saner people in power now,
even in Russia.
### - 'mutually assured destruction' (the MAD treaty) is the clear
realisation that no one can ever win a nuclear war, the old thinking
ends
right there... with ever-dwindling resources we either learn to share or
stagnate...
MAD is no longer in vogue nor has been for quite a while. Now it is thinkable. Some nations reserve the right to strike first, like
Russia.
iow: live and LET live, as opposed to: do things OUR way fucker or
we'll
blast ya off the face of the earth! ;)
I don't agree. Rather, don't try to blast US off the face of the
earth or we will do the same to YOU.
### - either way it would be collective suicide, so new thinking is
required ;)
Well we don't know if destruction of cities etc will kill everyone.
That in fact is doubtful. It would be a very big setback but I think
we will adapt. It's hardly likely that nukes will be wasted on Tierra
del Fuego, Hobart or Wellington, for instance.
But big cities like London and NY and St Petersburg will be toast.
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