From: slider@anashram.com

### - am not an anti-vacc-er per se, as vaccines have done quite a lot to 'contain' many horrible diseases (i.e., contain rather than eradicate
because only one virus has ever been totally eradicated to date: smallpox)
but do still indeed have some concerns regarding the early release of a
'new' + relatively untested vaccine in only 10 months instead of the more
usual 10 'years' it normally takes to prove the safety + efficacy of such things?

cue the movie: 'I Am Legend' in which a so-called genetic-altering vaccine
(for cancer) has totally unexpected side effects... a rather cautionary
tale :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKMEAXyPkg (official trailer)

i mean, hopefully not lol, at least not quite so extreme... there 'are'
however indeed risks whenever they tamper with genetics that have been
stable for a billion years? (butterflies being killed when feeding from genetically altered plants that time for example...)

so even at my advanced age and thus apparently at risk from covid, i wont
be taking it until i see everyone else is ok with it and suffers no lasting/serious after effects from its use...

besides; if everyone else takes it and becomes immune, i wont then need to
take it will i; the virus will just die off from a lack of new hosts
before ever reaching moi...

meanwhile, i don't mind dressing up like the SAS to go shopping haha, am actually quite enjoying the change to routine ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - ah god, so the uk is gonna be the first nation to roll out a vaccine then??

iow: they're gonna mass-test it on us all here first lol, coz no one has
any clue yet if there's gonna be any adverse effects from this particular vaccine or not? and then there's all the 'other' vaccines they're gonna roll-out too, all equally untested in the long term!

i mean 'one' new vaccine is risky enough is it not without mass-testing
several of them at the same time??

that it's gonna be a miracle if they're ALL perfectly safe innit!

why else normally test such things for 10 years otherwise?

only one of which has to be harmful to perhaps damage millions of people???

scary shit for real!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 03:48:07 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:

### - ah god, so the uk is gonna be the first nation to roll out a vaccine >then??

iow: they're gonna mass-test it on us all here first lol, coz no one has
any clue yet if there's gonna be any adverse effects from this particular >vaccine or not? and then there's all the 'other' vaccines they're gonna >roll-out too, all equally untested in the long term!

i mean 'one' new vaccine is risky enough is it not without mass-testing >several of them at the same time??

that it's gonna be a miracle if they're ALL perfectly safe innit!

why else normally test such things for 10 years otherwise?

only one of which has to be harmful to perhaps damage millions of people???

scary shit for real!

Well it beats the hell out of dying from this fucking disease. The
death rate in the US is a disgrace. THe death rate in the UK is close
to a disgrace. We all (2 or 3 of us) here are in the direct firing
line due to our advanced ages.

Here in Aus we seem to have defeated the scourge but that's only
because we've kept the borders up and we're surrounded by oceans and
little asian fellas who wouldn't typically get in anyhow. All we need
though is to let one silent Typhoid Mary in, and we're fucked.

It does give one time to observe the effects in others. I am going to
take the risk, the slight risk, so I can travel internationally again.
I've got money and want to do a LOT of travelling before I cark (Aus.
for "die").

I don't let the bullshit about vaccines infect me too much, I have a
very logical bent and the vaccines are the lesser by far of two evils.


Yudhisthira is asked: "Of all things in life, what is the most amazing?"

Yudhisthira answers: "That a man, seeing others die all around him,
never thinks that he will die."

- The Mahabharata -

--
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 23:43:59 -0000, thang ornerythinchus <thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 03:48:07 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:

### - ah god, so the uk is gonna be the first nation to roll out a
vaccine
then??

iow: they're gonna mass-test it on us all here first lol, coz no one has
any clue yet if there's gonna be any adverse effects from this
particular
vaccine or not? and then there's all the 'other' vaccines they're gonna
roll-out too, all equally untested in the long term!

i mean 'one' new vaccine is risky enough is it not without mass-testing
several of them at the same time??

that it's gonna be a miracle if they're ALL perfectly safe innit!

why else normally test such things for 10 years otherwise?

only one of which has to be harmful to perhaps damage millions of
people???

scary shit for real!

Well it beats the hell out of dying from this fucking disease. The
death rate in the US is a disgrace. THe death rate in the UK is close
to a disgrace. We all (2 or 3 of us) here are in the direct firing
line due to our advanced ages.

### - it's been a year and you/we haven't died yet though, both new
zealand & oz have actually done quite well in containing it and keeping
the numbers down, any extreme actions they've therefore taken to do so
have obviously worked and have been well worth it, in the US otoh trump
has deliberately set a covid fire and allowed, if not actively encouraged
it against all scientific advice, to peak like this for the purposes of creating further social division which suits his nefarious purposes...

Here in Aus we seem to have defeated the scourge but that's only
because we've kept the borders up and we're surrounded by oceans and
little asian fellas who wouldn't typically get in anyhow. All we need
though is to let one silent Typhoid Mary in, and we're fucked.

### - not really, once the numbers are right down, as they obviously are
there with you, just one infected person tends to only then create small
local pockets of it that can be fairly easily recognised and contained,
unlike the uk wherein only a general reduction has resulted in a general all-over outbreak again once the lockdown was prematurely eased...

It does give one time to observe the effects in others. I am going to
take the risk, the slight risk, so I can travel internationally again.
I've got money and want to do a LOT of travelling before I cark (Aus.
for "die").

### - you can surely afford to wait another 6 months or so before resuming
your travels mate, time enough to perhaps see the effects of all these new vaccines and/or any side effects they may or may not produce on particular people with particular underlying conditions etc... so just keep doing
what you've been doing till now as this has obviously been effective
enough to protect you & yours to date... no need to rush out to be part of
the initial trial (because that's what it still is until at least a few millions have tested it)

I don't let the bullshit about vaccines infect me too much, I have a
very logical bent and the vaccines are the lesser by far of two evils.

### - a vaccine that works and that has been peer reviewed, is a good
idea, but it's defo a gamble until that is actually the case a few months
down the line? that even if it all goes as they hope from the off the
numbers will then start to come down in the community creating a situation wherein there's even less likelihood of you then catching it (which is
what am personally banking on anyway)

fools rush in though, ya know? the boris here currently using outright
scare tactics in order to get as many as poss to go for it straight away
even though they have no clue as yet what, if any, effects (good or bad)
it might yet have? as such they're literally gambling with people's lives
just in order to ensure the economy!? (i really don't like nor trust that
part one little bit! they're motives are all wrong!)

would thus suggest biding your time a little, just to see how it typically
goes 6 months down the line instead of volunteering to be part of this
initial mass trial of several new vaccines, that if all goes well in 6
months time you might not even need it anyway due to an increasing herd immunity to it, which apparently needs to be around 60% to be effective...

it's summat to think about anyway, that until then am gonna just watch & observe :)

Yudhisthira is asked: "Of all things in life, what is the most amazing?"

Yudhisthira answers: "That a man, seeing others die all around him,
never thinks that he will die."

- The Mahabharata -

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 04:23:16 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 23:43:59 -0000, thang ornerythinchus ><thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 03:48:07 -0000, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:

### - ah god, so the uk is gonna be the first nation to roll out a
vaccine
then??

iow: they're gonna mass-test it on us all here first lol, coz no one has >>> any clue yet if there's gonna be any adverse effects from this
particular
vaccine or not? and then there's all the 'other' vaccines they're gonna
roll-out too, all equally untested in the long term!

i mean 'one' new vaccine is risky enough is it not without mass-testing
several of them at the same time??

that it's gonna be a miracle if they're ALL perfectly safe innit!

why else normally test such things for 10 years otherwise?

only one of which has to be harmful to perhaps damage millions of
people???

scary shit for real!

Well it beats the hell out of dying from this fucking disease. The
death rate in the US is a disgrace. THe death rate in the UK is close
to a disgrace. We all (2 or 3 of us) here are in the direct firing
line due to our advanced ages.

### - it's been a year and you/we haven't died yet though, both new
zealand & oz have actually done quite well in containing it and keeping
the numbers down, any extreme actions they've therefore taken to do so
have obviously worked and have been well worth it, in the US otoh trump
has deliberately set a covid fire and allowed, if not actively encouraged
it against all scientific advice, to peak like this for the purposes of >creating further social division which suits his nefarious purposes...

True. And we have but again, both Aus and NZ have natural defences,
one huge pacific ocean/moat around both - and it's fairly easy to
control inwards aircraft, commercial and other types of ocean going
vessels. And there aren't that many of us, about one third to one
half the population of California.

Trump is a demonic type, something wrong with his personality - lack
of empathy, narcissism, immaturity, who knows? He will pay in due
course for his inactions. He's paying now, actually :)

Here in Aus we seem to have defeated the scourge but that's only
because we've kept the borders up and we're surrounded by oceans and
little asian fellas who wouldn't typically get in anyhow. All we need
though is to let one silent Typhoid Mary in, and we're fucked.

### - not really, once the numbers are right down, as they obviously are >there with you, just one infected person tends to only then create small >local pockets of it that can be fairly easily recognised and contained, >unlike the uk wherein only a general reduction has resulted in a general >all-over outbreak again once the lockdown was prematurely eased...

If this thing mutates again, as it has already, and becomes perhaps
more virulent or develops a much longer incubation period, who knows?
Boris in your country seems to have the tiger by the tail and dare not
let go.

It does give one time to observe the effects in others. I am going to
take the risk, the slight risk, so I can travel internationally again.
I've got money and want to do a LOT of travelling before I cark (Aus.
for "die").

### - you can surely afford to wait another 6 months or so before resuming >your travels mate, time enough to perhaps see the effects of all these new >vaccines and/or any side effects they may or may not produce on particular >people with particular underlying conditions etc... so just keep doing
what you've been doing till now as this has obviously been effective
enough to protect you & yours to date... no need to rush out to be part of >the initial trial (because that's what it still is until at least a few >millions have tested it)

It's been 3 years since I've been overseas, even to Bali which is
right next door. I can certainly wait another year, and I will if
necessary. I can sit back and observe what's happening, I'm in no
great rush. So I agree with you on practically everything you've
said.

I don't let the bullshit about vaccines infect me too much, I have a
very logical bent and the vaccines are the lesser by far of two evils.

### - a vaccine that works and that has been peer reviewed, is a good
idea, but it's defo a gamble until that is actually the case a few months >down the line? that even if it all goes as they hope from the off the
numbers will then start to come down in the community creating a situation >wherein there's even less likelihood of you then catching it (which is
what am personally banking on anyway)

Logically, I have nothing to lose by waiting and everything to lose
(life) perhaps by rushing in. So I agree with what your saying. I'm
retired and don't have even an elbow in the bathtub, I've always been
a low risk non-gambling type financially so I don't have worries about investments and all that rubbish - I can sit back, have a beer or ten,
smoke a scube and just wait it out. Clearly, that's your strategy too
but you're a little bit more exposed over there with Boris' stupid
approach to this terrible disease.

fools rush in though, ya know? the boris here currently using outright
scare tactics in order to get as many as poss to go for it straight away
even though they have no clue as yet what, if any, effects (good or bad)
it might yet have? as such they're literally gambling with people's lives >just in order to ensure the economy!? (i really don't like nor trust that >part one little bit! they're motives are all wrong!)

would thus suggest biding your time a little, just to see how it typically >goes 6 months down the line instead of volunteering to be part of this >initial mass trial of several new vaccines, that if all goes well in 6
months time you might not even need it anyway due to an increasing herd >immunity to it, which apparently needs to be around 60% to be effective...

it's summat to think about anyway, that until then am gonna just watch & >observe :)

Yep advice taken and heeded. I too will wait it out and definitely
won't be in the first or second tranche of injectees. Perhaps they'll
all become fucking ZOMBIES and only those who did wait it out will
remain human :)

Yudhisthira is asked: "Of all things in life, what is the most amazing?"

Yudhisthira answers: "That a man, seeing others die all around him,
never thinks that he will die."

- The Mahabharata -

--
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From: slider@anashram.com

ANYONE severely disabled as a result of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will
be entitled to a one-off tax-free payment of £120,000.

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will be added to the UK Government's Vaccine Damages Payments Act tomorrow, ahead of its roll out next week.

This is done routinely for any vaccines used in NHS immunisation
programmes.

Severe allergic reactions to vaccines are extremely rare.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18915087.coronavirus-120-000-compensation-will-available-anyone-severely-disabled-covid-vaccine/

In comparison, there have been 64 million known Covid cases to date and
nearly 1.5 million deaths.

Between 1978 and April 2017, there were 936 successful claims for a
vaccine damage in the UK at a cost of just over £74 million to taxpayers.

The payment can affect welfare benefits, such universal credit or housing benefit, and is not an acceptance of negligence.

Pfizer and AstraZeneca - the pharmaceutical commercial partner behind the Oxford vaccine - have both been granted protection from future product liability claims related to their Covid-19 vaccines. It means patients
cannot sue for damages.

Speaking to Reuters about the agreement in July, Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, said: “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine
is showing side effects.

“In the contracts we have in place, we are asking for indemnification.

"For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest.”

More than 30,000 people in Scotland are expected to receive the
vaccination in the first round, which is scheduled to get underway next Tuesday.

Priority will be given to vaccinators first, before being expanded to
older adults in care homes, frontline NHS and social care workers, and all over-80s.

The UK will be the first country is the world to begin administering the vaccine, after it passed safety and efficacy checks by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA).

The MHRA approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine today, saying it is up to
95% effective in preventing disease and safe following large-scale
clinical trials involving thousands of adult volunteers.

### - people obviously having adverse reactions to even 'established'
vaccines; how much more then to several ostensibly untested ones??

this above quote being fairly revealing in terms of potentially acceptable 'collateral' damage:

"For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest.”

the 'national interest' in this instance being tacitly along the lines of keeping the economy going rather than just that of saving lives alone, the pharma companies involved protected from being held personally responsible
thus being given free rein to experiment all they like as long as their products pass the first 3 initial hurdles, many other drugs also passing
that same test with flying colours then going on to actually prove
disastrous to health and thus having to be later withdrawn due to, for
example, causing birth defects! a case in point being the drug
thalidomide...

many others also being withdrawn long after the standard 10-year period
has expired, but in the case of covid: who cares how many might have to
suffer & die in the short term - birth defects and all - just as long as
we get rid of the disease and everyone can get back to work, right??

riiiiiight....

btw: found this free copy of 'I Am Legend' online available from some
middle eastern version of youtube but which is itself totally in
english... in this story, a corona virus (usually the common cold) is genetically modified to deliver modified genes into cells that will make
them immune from cancer?

unfortunately this then kills 90% of the global population, the majority
of the survivors turning into some kinda zombies that then attacked and
killed the rest of the survivors until only will smith is left on his own
in new york heh...

shades of the movie 'Omega Man'? a film i stumbled into quite by accident
at around age 17 which has a very similar theme and ending...

https://www.aparat.com/v/TLEDm/%D9%81%DB%8C%D9%84%D9%85_I_Am_Legend_2007

so is quite a good movie! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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