• Re: reminder for alt.dreams.castaneda visitor (1/2)

    From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Saturday, September 02, 2017 12:39:58
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    The Teachings of Don Carlos - Part 6

    Mike Sager | Scary Monsters and Super Freaks | Thunder’s Mouth Press | December, 2003 | 85 minutes (21,125 words)

    ***

    The Follower parked his dusty blue Hyundai at the curb in front of Spalding Mortuary, a nondescript brick building in a run-down industrial district just east of Culver City. It was Monday, June 22, 1998, around ten a.m. Though the morning sun was bright,
    the air was cool; Greg Mamishian was wearing his favorite jacket, a tan corduroy sportscoat with suede elbow patches that once belonged to Carlos. Greg
    sat silent for a few moments, listening to the engine tick off heat, a short man, fifty years old,
    with close cropped gray hair and an elfin sparkle in his eyes, girding himself for another mission.

    For the past two and a half years, Greg and his wife Gabi had made a hobby of following Carlos. They’d sat outside his compound for hundreds of hours, watching the comings and goings, trying to read between the lines. They’d trailed the Nagual and
    his party to restaurants and movies, to inner circle practice groups. They’d videotaped him at every opportunity, collected and processed his trash, made what they considered an anthropological study of his life. Along the way, they’d learned much
    about the great man and the doings of his inner circle, and much about themselves. Every couple needs a binding interest; in an odd, wonderful way, Carlos had become theirs.

    It had been more than nine months now since that magical summer night when the fierce Chacmol had caught them red-handed stealing the trash. Though they’d promised the woman from Cleargreen that they were done with their innocent surveillance —
    thereby avoiding a formal complaint to the police — they’d only lasted about a week before their curiosity and determination had gotten the better of them, and they’d renewed their activities in earnest. Besides changing the time of their trash
    runs to 3 a.m., things proceeded pretty much as before. The Followers, as Greg had dubbed them, were back in business.

    Then, one Sunday afternoon in late February 1998, sitting at their regular post, in a no-parking zone diagonally across the quiet intersection from Carlos’s low-slung compound, the Followers saw a car pull up to the Pandora Avenue gate, a blue Ford
    Crown Victoria that belonged to one of the Chacmools. As it slowed to a stop, several members of the inner circle came quickly out of the house, moved toward
    the back door of the car. Riveted, Greg and Gabi watched in disbelief as they ministered to the
    great man, helping him gingerly out of the back seat, hauling him to his feet. For some time it had been obvious that Carlos’s vision had been failing; they’d found insulin syringes and prescription medicine bottles in the trash.
    Now it was clear
    that his health had taken a dramatic turn for the worse. Carlos was thin and fragile, floppy like a rag doll. His skin was grayish green, his hair was very short, there were dark circles around his eyes; he had the skeletal appearance of an internee in a
    concentration camp. He didn’t so much walk as shuffle, supported on either side by Chacmools, steadied from behind by the Blue Scout.

    [Yes. I have personally seen all of the most interesting items they
    collected from the trash, which also confirm Carlos's health issues
    and dire condition, and have seen all the best clips from their
    video footage as well. Right before he died, Carlos looked like shit.]

    Gabi looked at Greg, Greg looked at Gabi. A wave of extreme sadness washed over
    them. There was no mistaking the fact that Carlos was dying, that their marvelous folly would soon be coming to an end. At the edge of the sadness was something else, a sort
    of bitter aftertaste of disappointment: If Carlos was planning, as he’d promised, to leave the Earth in full awareness with his boots on, in a flash of
    light for the Second Attention like Don Juan, he had better hurry. From the looks of him, he didn’
    t have much time.

    Over the next weeks and months, the Followers saw no more of Carlos. His public
    appearances at seminars and workshops ended; the private classes at the dance studio came to a halt; he never again went out for a movie or a meal.

    [Too sick to go out any more.]

    Meanwhile, the level of activity at the compound increased dramatically. People
    came and went in shifts several times a day, bringing with them medical supplies and covered dishes of food. The members of the inner circle all got new cars, mostly mid-
    sized Fords. A new roof was put on the house, many other small repairs were made as well; the Followers got the feeling that the place was being readied for sale. When landscapers arrived and began tearing up the internal courtyard of the compound, the
    Followers wondered if they were digging a grave. Then one evening they observed
    Taisha Abelar packing her van with stacks of files and documents and a big cooler full of supplies. She was in an obvious hurry. The Followers wondered: Were they taking
    Carlos to Mexico to die? In mid-April, Gabi and Greg observed what seemed to be
    a flurry of packing and cleaning and organizing. Their trash take that week was
    unbelievably fruitful: clothes, statues and knicknacks, flatware, curtains, supplies — there
    were 16 bags, more than twice the normal amount. Once upon a time they’d have
    been overjoyed by such fabulous gleanings. Now they felt only curiosity and sorrow.

    [Getting ready to make a run for it.]

    During the week of April 22, Greg and Gabi left off their surveillance in favor
    of a rare, seven-day vacation to Kauai, the honeymoon they hadn’t yet gotten around to taking. When they returned, tanned and rested, the first thing they did was drive to
    Carlos’s compound.

    The place was empty. There was no one there. No cars, no people, no furniture inside. The only thing in the trash can was some construction debris and a few fast food wrappers. Several trips over the next few days confirmed their suspicions: The Sorcerer
    and his party had disappeared.

    Had he died like a man? Had he left like a sorcerer?
    For the next six weeks, things at the compound remained unchanged. Meanwhile, phone lines and Internet chat rooms were buzzing with speculation. There were rumors that Carlos and his party had bought a big luxury yacht and had embarked
    on a world cruise.
    Others said that the inner circle had taken Carlos to Mexico to “leave.” Still others posited that Carlos had died and the Witches had committed suicide
    in solidarity. Everyone associated, it seemed, had an opinion. Cleargreen remained suspiciously
    mum, continuing to schedule new seminars, carrying on business as usual.

    [I think some of this last part is fictionalized. Greg and Gabi did find
    some literature about yachts in their trash, leading to speculation that
    they might be thinking about going to sea. But... it was not widely known
    that anything was going on. I myself heard no such 'rumors'.]

    Then, in mid June, C.J. Castaneda received a notice from the probate court in Los Angeles. On April 27, 1998, the letter informed him, Carlos Castaneda had died. Though C.J. and Margaret were mentioned in the will, they were left nothing of the estate,
    which some estimated to be worth as much as $20 million. In the six-page document, which was signed and dated April 23, Carlos explicitly distanced himself from his Cho-cho, stating in Article 1 that “although I once treated him as if he were my son, C.
    J. Castaneda is not my son, natural or adopted.” All monies and property and future rights to his work were bequeathed to something called The Eagle’s Trust, the officers of which were members of Carlos’s inner circle, men and women who also served
    as the officers of Cleargreen, Toltec Artists and the other corporations. Outraged that Cleargreen had failed to exercise common decency and notify him of his Kiki’s death, hurt that he’d been disavowed and disinherited by the only father he had ever
    known, C.J. called the Los Angeles Times and tipped them off to the death. Later, he would initiate a suit against Cleargreen and Carlos’s executors, claiming that the will was a fraud. After nine months of legal wrangling, C.J. would drop the suit.

    [It is consistent with everything I heard and know that Carlos did
    indeed cut of CJ intentionally.]

    The story ran on the front page of the Times on Friday, June 19. “Carlos Castaneda … apparently died two months ago in the same way that he lived: quietly, secretly, mysteriously?”

    According to his death certificate, the Times story said, Carlos had died of liver cancer on April 27, at the age of 72. In typical Carlos fashion, the death certificate listed his occupation as “teacher,” and his employer as the Beverly Hills School
    District, for which he’d never worked. It also said that he had never been married. Immediately following the death, it was reported, his body had been cremated, his ashes spirited away to Mexico. Explaining why no one was notified
    about his passing,
    Carlos’s long-time lawyer, Debra Drooze, was quoted as saying: “He didn’t
    like attention. He always made sure people did not take his picture or record his voice. He didn’t like the spotlight. Knowing that, I didn’t take it upon myself to issue
    a press release.”

    The next day, on their website, Cleargreen issued a statement to the faithful. Their position was a bit different than the lawyer’s. “Carlos Castaneda left the world the same way that his teacher, Don Juan Matus did: with full awareness,” the
    statement read in part. “The cognition of our world of everyday life does not
    provide for a description of a phenomenon such as this. So in keeping with the terms of legalities and record keeping that the world of everyday life requires, Carlos
    Castaneda was declared to have died.”

    [Yes. This was the cult line, which they maintained for many years.
    Only a couple of years ago did Cleargreen finally admit CC simply died.]

    Having read both the article in the Times and the posting on the Web, Greg and Gabi, like many others, didn’t know what to think. So many odd and wonderful things had happened in connection with Carlos, so many mystical events and occurrences that
    seemed to have no explanation in the world of ordinary reality. Now they wanted
    to know how the story ended. They needed to know the truth. Had he died like a man? Had he left like a sorcerer? Which was it? For so many years now, Gabi and
    Greg and
    countless others around the world had set their reality compass by the teachings of Carlos and Don Juan. There was a need for some kind of closure. It
    didn’t help any that all the Witches had disappeared. When asked, Cleargreen would only say that the
    Witches were “traveling.”

    [To this day we do not know what really happened to most of them.]

    Using the detective skills he’d honed to a sharp edge over the last several years, Greg tracked down Carlos’s death certificate. A little leg work revealed that Carlos’s body had not been taken to the mortuary that was specified, but to a different
    place, one with an unlisted telephone number called the Spalding Mortuary.

    And so it was, on the Monday morning following the announcement of Carlos’s death in the L.A. Times, that Greg got out of his car and walked through the unlocked door of a nondescript brick building in a run-down industrial district
    just east of Culver
    City. He was going to get to the bottom of this mystery, once and for all.

    He was met in the hallway by a tall, elderly black gentleman, who kindly asked his business. Standing there in the dark hallway, wearing the corduroy sportscoat that had once belonged to Carlos himself, Greg explained that Spalding Mortuary had recently
    cremated the remains of a man named Carlos Castaneda. This man, Greg continued,
    had claimed to be a great and powerful sorcerer and had followers all over the world. Though his teachings were many, Greg explained, first among them was the
    notion that an
    enlightened sorcerer does not die a normal death, but rather is consumed by something called “the fire from within,” a sort of spontaneous combustion, wherein he gathers his mortal energy and leaves for the next realm, taking his body with him.

    “I am here to find out the truth,” Greg told the elderly gentleman in his typically earnest but ironic style. “What I want to know is this: Did he burn
    with the fire from within? Or did you burn him?”

    The gentleman regarded Greg for several long moments—trying, no doubt, to decide what to do. Greg seemed harmless enough. He was polite and appeared sane. He was obviously deeply aggrieved. But what Greg was saying, well—he’d seen and heard many
    things in his years in the mortuary business, but this took it all: he’d never heard anything so ridiculous in his life. “Please sit down,” he said at last.

    After ten minutes or so, a well-dressed, older woman appeared before Greg and asked him to repeat his business. She listened intently, nodding her head, wearing a sympathetic face. Until, that is, he got to the part about “the fire from within.” She
    reared back her head and laughed out loud.

    Greg looked at the woman and smiled. He raised his hands, palms up, shrugged his shoulders. She was a tall, heavyset, regal woman, the model of a family matriarch. She leaned down and put her arms around Greg, gave him a tender, motherly hug. “He has
    gone to a better place,” she said, patting his back.

    Greg stepped back from her embrace. “I know that,” he said, regarding her quizzically. “But what I want to know is: which better place. Are you sure you cremated him?”

    “I watched it myself,” she said confidently.

    “You’re positive?”

    “His spirit is gone, baby.”

    Greg thanked the woman, turned and went outside, to his car. He opened the door, started to get in, then stopped himself. He felt numb, an odd mixture of disappointment and relief. For what must have been the one millionth time over the six years, the
    words of scholar Richard DeMille floated through his mind. Castaneda wasn’t a
    common con man, he lied to bring us the truth. His stories are packed with truth, though they are not true stories, which he said they are…. This is a sham-man bearing
    gifts, an ambiguous spellbinder dealing simultaneously in contrary commodities—wisdom and deception.


    [continued in next message]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to slider on Monday, September 04, 2017 17:37:21
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 2:27:32 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 21:42:43 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 3:36:39 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    don't be a dildo slider.
    do you want to smell the
    death certificate or what.
    no one gets burn without the
    death certificate. there are
    rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

    ### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

    but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let
    alone
    an
    actual cremation??

    lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
    weird...)

    i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the
    more i
    think about it now?

    Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things
    get.
    That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

    ### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the
    fucking
    church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

    so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))






    so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an
    official
    diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other
    than
    the lawyer??

    Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
    position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
    trolling the shit out of everyone.

    That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

    ### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE
    fucking
    religious CULT???

    MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

    because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

    baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)



    You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
    15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

    http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

    It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
    lying on a death certificate.

    ### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!)
    well
    then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate >> in the whole of fucking history then innit!

    cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
    ANYTHING!

    did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC??
    (it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check
    it
    out?? nope! :)



    They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

    ### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on
    it??

    bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

    and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!






    Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
    Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
    being filmed, right?

    ### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in
    the act!

    so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

    after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)



    You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
    suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
    admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit?
    :)

    ### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they
    finally
    caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE
    anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!



    One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
    with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
    and was going to have kick the bucket.

    ### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING
    was
    a crock??

    well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself
    intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
    died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!





    Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
    Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
    positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

    ### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's
    hand
    AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big
    deal
    of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just
    to
    make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

    who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO
    were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
    ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they
    tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

    sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!




    syringes for diabetes is nada!

    Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
    entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
    in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
    'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

    ### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did
    he!?!?

    where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

    and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

    oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

    riiiight...

    (am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)


    You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
    and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

    ### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

    fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

    prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))






    plus greg could have been deliberately
    'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying
    on
    them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
    'detective'
    if he got caught by them??)

    there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

    what people... said/assumed??

    'wanted to believe'?

    fuck me! :D

    Consider yourself fucked.

    If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
    laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
    any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

    ### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

    YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've...
    heard/read?!?!

    nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

    actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

    you've NEVER been right yet!

    and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

    'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
    nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records
    confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

    why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
    job??

    very sloppy! completely careless!

    FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

    in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for
    all YOU actually know! even at 92!

    mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public
    eye!
    (he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people
    'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange -
    especially
    for men?)

    as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling
    US
    with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore -
    except YOU?? - remember?

    i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

    and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

    LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

    a 'terminal believer' huh?

    what an arsehole! :))))

    Even when totally wrong about something, this is how you respond.

    You've been shown half-a-dozen pieces of strong evidence CC is dead.
    On your side, you've provided zero evidence he's still alive.
    And yet you'll still argue about it, abusively, 'to the death'.

    That's literally: the definition of who Slider is as a man.

    ### - (smile...) you should try and see it from my pov occasionally? (something other than just your OWN all the time, i mean...) and you might realise that ALL i've ever HAD over here across the pond all along re cc
    is, for example, hearsay?? other people's WORD for everything!

    Regarding most of the people who have ever lived, that's all you have.


    no
    first-hand 'proof' of 'anything' per se! - besides which, the only 'hard' (i.e., convincing) evidence there IS that DC!

    You've had access to most of the same sources we did - such as
    Amy's book, Greg and Gabi's book, the YouTube where Renata admits
    Carlos died, and the Death Cert. You could have seen all those too,
    if you had looked. No, you didn't personally know all these people
    as I did, but you had most of the same information sources available.

    Dr. Duenas' name is right there on the damn cert, which has
    been posted for 20 years.

    True, you didn't see Carlos being helped out of a car into his house,
    terribly jaundiced and so ill he could barely walk without help.
    But you COULD see that, if you wanted badly enough to go to Greg's
    house in Topanga and watch it.


    'everything' else IS merely circumstantial and 'could' have just as easily been planted/engineered by an already well known professional trickster!
    iow: everything else you've listed could just as easily be construed as a deliberate con-job to misdirect 'just as much' as being evidence for someone's demise!?! (a false paper trail kinda thing...)

    e.g., he also told stories about his 'own' mentor deliberately looking old and sick?

    so maybe the apple didn't fall too far from the tree!?! (really laffing!)

    Look, I already suggested that you should feel free to believe in
    any idiotic conspiracy theory you want. That's what you usually do,
    so... why not? :)


    fortunately, for you, dr duenas does indeed appear to be genuine?

    https://www.itriagehealth.com/doctor/angelica-duenas-410420/background

    but then who's to say he didn't somehow just con her too?

    See, once again, you don't know the facts. By his own accounts
    Carlos did try to "con" Dr. Duenas on a few occasions. She was
    one of CC's doctors for a few years, and was one of the doctors
    treating him for several months before he died. Carlos told us
    tales about his interactions with her, which naturally were
    somewhat strange, given the kind of man he was. He was even more
    fucked up and crazy than you are. :)


    it gets very difficult at 'that' point admittedly, but it's not totally impossible!

    doctors have been conned before? or, like some episode from columbo; was maybe even complicit!

    i'd need to see/examine records (both medical & financial) going right
    back to confirm/deny all that?

    how long was she his doctor? did he have 'other' doctors? - records please!

    more shocking to me perhaps, is that dona soledad AND la gorda were 'real' people???

    I know of no evidence La Gorda was real, and a bit of evidence
    that she probably wasn't, except as maybe a "composite person",
    such as being part Beverly Evans and part Gloria Garvin and ?.

    But yes, there was real person who knew Carlos and was written into
    the stories as "dona Soledad". You would know that too if you ever
    paid attention, just as you would already have seen the Death Cert
    and would have known about Dr. Duenas too, if you paid attention.
    You *don't* pay attention to the real evidence. Instead you latch
    onto some bullshit idea and then wank with it forever, mainly just
    to piss people off and make yourself seem wise (which makes you
    seem anything but).

    You've been doing that for 20 years. You're doing it again here.


    so maybe the others (of that team) were too? it certainly increases that likelihood!

    and if THAT'S true, then what else was also maybe true! :)

    lol you being pissed as all-get-out is no proof of 'anything' except your 'own' madness!

    :D

    It appears there was also a person named Nestor. Nestor also had
    an extensive presence on Facebook, and only died a few years ago.
    Nestor was really into jazz, by the way. :)

    But of course none of these people "flew away" with "don Juan".
    Soledad's still on Facebook. I have a bunch of her photos. :)
    (Since I found her, she has tightened her security, and you can
    no longer see all the stuff I got about her. But I copied quite
    a bit of it. Do you want to see my photo collection on Soledad? :) )

    As I've been telling people for years (including you if you actually
    ever listened), Carlos made up wild stories about everyone around him
    all the time, on the fly. He even used tiny bits of MY life in
    his storytelling and mythologizing. Over decades he created his
    'mythology' using bits and pieces of the real people around him,
    making up fantastic tales about some things that really happened.

    It was perpetual fictionalization, mythologizing all the real people
    around him, confabulating magical events around them (actually a
    common occurrence around entitled grandiose narcissists). Carlos got
    away with his most outrageous claims partly by claiming that much
    of what happened wasn't accessible to conscious memory (that's why
    he came up with "heightened awareness").


    [continued in next message]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From thang ornerythinchus@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 09:34:39
    From: thangolossus@gmail.com

    On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 17:37:21 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 2:27:32 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 21:42:43 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 3:36:39 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    don't be a dildo slider.
    do you want to smell the
    death certificate or what.
    no one gets burn without the
    death certificate. there are
    rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

    ### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

    but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let
    alone
    an
    actual cremation??

    lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
    weird...)

    i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the
    more i
    think about it now?

    Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things
    get.
    That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

    ### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the
    fucking
    church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

    so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))






    so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an
    official
    diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other >> >> >> than
    the lawyer??

    Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
    position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
    trolling the shit out of everyone.

    That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

    ### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE
    fucking
    religious CULT???

    MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

    because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

    baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)



    You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
    15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

    http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

    It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
    lying on a death certificate.

    ### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!)
    well
    then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate >> >> in the whole of fucking history then innit!

    cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
    ANYTHING!

    did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC?? >> >> (it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check
    it
    out?? nope! :)



    They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

    ### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on
    it??

    bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

    and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!






    Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
    Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
    being filmed, right?

    ### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in >> >> the act!

    so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

    after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)



    You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
    suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
    admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit?
    :)

    ### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they
    finally
    caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE
    anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!



    One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
    with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
    and was going to have kick the bucket.

    ### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING
    was
    a crock??

    well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself
    intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
    died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!





    Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
    Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
    positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

    ### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's
    hand
    AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big
    deal
    of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just >> >> to
    make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

    who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO >> >> were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
    ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they >> >> tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

    sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!




    syringes for diabetes is nada!

    Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
    entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
    in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
    'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

    ### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did >> >> he!?!?

    where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

    and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

    oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

    riiiight...

    (am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)


    You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
    and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

    ### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

    fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

    prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))






    plus greg could have been deliberately
    'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying >> >> on
    them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
    'detective'
    if he got caught by them??)

    there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

    what people... said/assumed??

    'wanted to believe'?

    fuck me! :D

    Consider yourself fucked.

    If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
    laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
    any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

    ### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

    YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've...
    heard/read?!?!

    nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

    actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

    you've NEVER been right yet!

    and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

    'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
    nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records >> >> confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

    why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
    job??

    very sloppy! completely careless!

    FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

    in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for >> >> all YOU actually know! even at 92!

    mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public
    eye!
    (he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people
    'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange -
    especially
    for men?)

    as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling
    US
    with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore - >> >> except YOU?? - remember?

    i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

    and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

    LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

    a 'terminal believer' huh?

    what an arsehole! :))))

    Even when totally wrong about something, this is how you respond.

    You've been shown half-a-dozen pieces of strong evidence CC is dead.
    On your side, you've provided zero evidence he's still alive.
    And yet you'll still argue about it, abusively, 'to the death'.

    That's literally: the definition of who Slider is as a man.

    ### - (smile...) you should try and see it from my pov occasionally?
    (something other than just your OWN all the time, i mean...) and you might >> realise that ALL i've ever HAD over here across the pond all along re cc
    is, for example, hearsay?? other people's WORD for everything!

    Regarding most of the people who have ever lived, that's all you have.


    no
    first-hand 'proof' of 'anything' per se! - besides which, the only 'hard'
    (i.e., convincing) evidence there IS that DC!

    You've had access to most of the same sources we did - such as
    Amy's book, Greg and Gabi's book, the YouTube where Renata admits
    Carlos died, and the Death Cert. You could have seen all those too,
    if you had looked. No, you didn't personally know all these people
    as I did, but you had most of the same information sources available.

    Dr. Duenas' name is right there on the damn cert, which has
    been posted for 20 years.

    True, you didn't see Carlos being helped out of a car into his house, >terribly jaundiced and so ill he could barely walk without help.
    But you COULD see that, if you wanted badly enough to go to Greg's
    house in Topanga and watch it.


    'everything' else IS merely circumstantial and 'could' have just as easily >> been planted/engineered by an already well known professional trickster!
    iow: everything else you've listed could just as easily be construed as a
    deliberate con-job to misdirect 'just as much' as being evidence for
    someone's demise!?! (a false paper trail kinda thing...)

    e.g., he also told stories about his 'own' mentor deliberately looking old >> and sick?

    so maybe the apple didn't fall too far from the tree!?! (really laffing!)

    Look, I already suggested that you should feel free to believe in
    any idiotic conspiracy theory you want. That's what you usually do,
    so... why not? :)


    fortunately, for you, dr duenas does indeed appear to be genuine?

    https://www.itriagehealth.com/doctor/angelica-duenas-410420/background

    but then who's to say he didn't somehow just con her too?

    See, once again, you don't know the facts. By his own accounts
    Carlos did try to "con" Dr. Duenas on a few occasions. She was
    one of CC's doctors for a few years, and was one of the doctors
    treating him for several months before he died. Carlos told us
    tales about his interactions with her, which naturally were
    somewhat strange, given the kind of man he was. He was even more
    fucked up and crazy than you are. :)

    Impossible.



    it gets very difficult at 'that' point admittedly, but it's not totally
    impossible!

    doctors have been conned before? or, like some episode from columbo; was
    maybe even complicit!

    i'd need to see/examine records (both medical & financial) going right
    back to confirm/deny all that?

    how long was she his doctor? did he have 'other' doctors? - records please! >>
    more shocking to me perhaps, is that dona soledad AND la gorda were 'real' >> people???

    I know of no evidence La Gorda was real, and a bit of evidence
    that she probably wasn't, except as maybe a "composite person",
    such as being part Beverly Evans and part Gloria Garvin and ?.

    But yes, there was real person who knew Carlos and was written into
    the stories as "dona Soledad". You would know that too if you ever
    paid attention, just as you would already have seen the Death Cert
    and would have known about Dr. Duenas too, if you paid attention.
    You *don't* pay attention to the real evidence. Instead you latch
    onto some bullshit idea and then wank with it forever, mainly just
    to piss people off and make yourself seem wise (which makes you
    seem anything but).

    You were right in an earlier post. Brian is almost certainly on the
    edges of senescence/senility.


    You've been doing that for 20 years. You're doing it again here.


    so maybe the others (of that team) were too? it certainly increases that
    likelihood!

    and if THAT'S true, then what else was also maybe true! :)

    lol you being pissed as all-get-out is no proof of 'anything' except your
    'own' madness!

    :D

    It appears there was also a person named Nestor. Nestor also had
    an extensive presence on Facebook, and only died a few years ago.
    Nestor was really into jazz, by the way. :)

    But of course none of these people "flew away" with "don Juan".
    Soledad's still on Facebook. I have a bunch of her photos. :)
    (Since I found her, she has tightened her security, and you can
    no longer see all the stuff I got about her. But I copied quite
    a bit of it. Do you want to see my photo collection on Soledad? :) )

    As I've been telling people for years (including you if you actually
    ever listened), Carlos made up wild stories about everyone around him
    all the time, on the fly. He even used tiny bits of MY life in
    his storytelling and mythologizing. Over decades he created his
    'mythology' using bits and pieces of the real people around him,
    making up fantastic tales about some things that really happened.


    [continued in next message]

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