From: slider@nanashram.com

### - quite a few reputable-enough peeps in the past have attested to
dreams & lucid dreaming having helped them in some way to arrive at novel solutions, which in many instances were likely to be WILDs albeit
accomplished unwittingly (i.e., they didn't realise what was 'actually' occurring and thus had other ideas and/or descriptions about what was
occurring and why - e.g., calling it a trance-like state, visitations,
and/or something along those lines...)

e.g., albert einstein calling it 'thought experiments', in which he
apparently regularly entered into some kind of an altered state of
awareness that allowed him to then repeatedly visualise things in a very creative manner that resembled lucid dreaming, but which was more than
likely was either WILDing or something very much like it... and quite a
few others that we have already mentioned/discussed that involved some
aspects of dreams & dreaming...

and now, here' a few others that may well fall in that category too...

famous characters from history, that actually then influenced the world to
some degree because of some seeming psychic ability to tap into some
otherwise (unnamed) obscure state of awareness that repeatedly facilitated amazing discoveries and realisations!

people like leonardo davinci for instance, who apparently used some
strange technique of laying down in his bed while gazing at shadows cast
on the ceiling by a lighted candle, something which apparently allowed him
to then enter into some kind of strange trance-like state that allowed him
to draw on hidden mental resources whereby he was able to
imagine/visualise new and strange ideas to experiment with...

and/or the famous indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan, whose
contributions to the theory of numbers include pioneering discoveries of
the properties of the partition function, who apparently used a method
very similar to WILDing, in which he got into a state of visual waking awareness and in one instance saw a hand protruding from behind a red wall
that then wrote obscure formulas on that wall that he then memorised and verified when awake, he directly describes, for instance, repeatedly
falling asleep and becoming lucid in the dream-time and communicating with
some being (or deity) from another world...

and/or Socrates, the founder of philosophy, who was apparently able to regularly enter into some kind of an altered state of awareness for hours
on end, and in which he formulated/clarified his ideas (he said he had a 'demon' (or spirit being) that he regularly conversed with that gave him
all his ideas...)

and/or Puccini, who claimed his opera 'madam butterfly' was dictated to
him by some 'divine' source...

and/or william blake, whose entire opus (both writing and painting) was,
he claimed, to have been directly inspired by repeated enjoyed
'visitations'

and/or Brahms, who claimed all his music came from something beyond
himself and which he merely copied down...

and/or Tesla, who wrote about being able to deliberately visualise (in his mind) complex engineering problems he was then able to run and experiment
with while looking for flaws in its plans whilst being in some kind of
altered state of consciousness... he said, for example, that he was in communication with other worldly beings, and wrote in a letter to the
american red cross dated 1900, that: "we have a message from another world
- it reads: one, two, three..."

and quite a few others too! all of whom appear to have been able to access
some 'more active' area of their imaginations to come up with often
startlingly new concepts & ideas from day-dreaming!

Stephen King, the King of horror, who saw the link between writing and dreaming, and endorses ‘creative sleep’ to ‘train your waking mind to sleep creatively and work out the vividly imagined waking dreams.’ So many
of King’s works have been the results of dreams, including Dreamcatcher,
the idea of which came to him after he began having vivid dreams, and
Insomnia, which has lucid dreaming themes running the whole way through...

Thomas Edison. An inventor inspired by dreams. Lucid dreaming wasn’t recognised in his time, but what he did do was induce hypnogogia, Edison
found his creativity in this state, holding steel balls that would drop
onto a tin when he fell asleep and his grip loosened, waking him up.

Salvador Dali was influenced by lucid dreams. His surreal paintings are literally out of this world, and more depictions of the fantasy of his subconscious thoughts. Though he’s another famous figure who lived before lucid dreaming became an accepted term, he had definitely already unlocked
the door to lucidity, even encouraging it by explaining in his book of 50 secrets how he reached it.

The planet Uranus was discovered by William Herschel in a dream

Stravinsky, Wagner, and Beethoven heard musical compositions, from
fragments to entire canons, in their dreams

Bob Dylan composed music from his dreams

john lennon apparently lucid dreamed

Paul McCartney praised his dreams for his multi-platinum song, Yesterday

The movie, Avatar, was apparently dreamed in vivid detail by director,
James Cameron

Elias Howe sourced his invention of the sewing machine to his dreams

Dr. Frederick Banting discovered insulin in his dreams and won a Nobel
Prize

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, attributed the philosophy contained
within the Declaration of Independence to their dreams

and more...

the term 'lucid dreaming' being only relatively new (and 'WILDs' even
newer!) who knows just how many inventions and world changing ideas have
been produced that way, and will be produced in the future!

good eh? :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

more famous dreams & dreamers:

Edgar Allan Poe suffered from nightmares throughout his life, and they
were said to sometimes inspire his poems and short stories. He also wrote several poems about the phenomenon of dreaming (“Dream-Land” and “A Dream Within A Dream,” notably).

As Poe wrote in his 1839 essay “An Opinion On Dreams,” dreams are a powerful form of consciousness:

"That dreams, or, as they were then generally called, visions, were a
means of supernatural instruction, if we believe the bible at all, is
proved by Jacob’s dream, the several visions of Ezekiel and other
prophets, as also of later date, the Revelations to Saint John; and there appears no reason why this mode of divine communication should be
discontinued in the present day."

Carl Jung’s “The Red Book”

Always a believer in the power of inner wisdom and the unconscious mind, psychoanalyst Carl Jung studied dream interpretation extensively and also recorded his own dreams. “The Red Book,” as NPR describes it, is “Jung’s
voyage of discovery into his deepest self.” The book is a massive
collection of years of Jung’s dreams, fantasies, surrealist dialogues and psychedelic drawings.

“So, I have come to absolutely the right place,” Jung wrote in one fictional dialogue. “I have wandered a long time through the world,
seeking those like you who sit upon a high tower on the lookout for things unseen.”

Rene Descartes: He credited the formulation of the scientific method and
the Cartesian coordinate system you learned in school is named after him. (slider laffing...)

Franz Kafka '..again it was the power of my dreams, shining forth into wakefulness even before I fall asleep, which did not let me sleep.'

Dr. James Watson: In 1953 Dr. Watson had a dream that made him consider
the double helix. According to Dr. Watson’s Alma mater, Indiana
University, the dream was of two intertwined serpents with heads at
opposite ends, though other accounts say the dream was of a double-sided staircase.

Charles Dickens: Dickens had a dream and had seen a vision of a female in
a red shawl. This young woman only spoke four words in his dream, that
being her introduction of herself: “I am Miss Napier.” Later upon awakening, Dickens was engage in a social circles and was introduced to
some women. Dickens noticed one of the women, a girl, that was dressed in
a red shawl. She was introduced to him as… Miss Napier.

Stanley Kubrick dreamed up some of the stories that became movies he
directed

Google co-founder Larry Page credits a dream that gave him the idea to
download and index the entire Internet.

Danish physicist Neils Bohr received the Nobel Prize in Physics for his investigation of atomic structure. Quite surprisingly, the nature of the
atom was revealed to Bohr in his sleep. More specifically, one night, Bohr dreamt of planets orbiting while attached to the sun by fine threads. Upon awakening, he realized that he could use the structure of the solar system
as a guide for understanding the structure of an atom. The discovery
proved to be a highly important one as it brought forth a much deeper understanding of atomic physics.

Dmitri Mendeleev of Russia is credited for advancing knowledge on chemical elements by developing an extended version of the periodic table.
Mendeleev’s contribution was nothing short of astounding as during the
late 1860s, there were no means of accurately measuring the atomic weights
of elements, thus making it virtually impossible to precisely arrange the elements in an organized table. However, Mendeleev bravely and correctly theorized that the accepted atomic weights of several elements at that
time were incorrect. He further insisted that elements, arranged according
to their correct atomic weights, would exhibit a periodic characteristic.
Quite intriguingly, Mendeleev is said to have developed the visual representation of his ideas after temporarily giving up on his work
because of his lack of progress. Ironically, it was during a deep sleep
that the Russian chemist saw a table “where all the elements fell into
place as required.” Upon waking up, Mendeleev immediately drew the table
as he had seen it in his dream. And while he later made adjustments to the table as he originally drew it, the vision in Mendeleev’s dream is acknowledged as a major turning point in the development of the periodic
table of elements as we know it today.

Friedrich August Kekulé, Molecular Structure of Benzene, developed a structural theory in chemistry (related to the bonding order of atoms in a molecule) that was integral to the development of organic chemistry.
Dozing on a bus, a vision that provided a starting point for this theory appeared to him, as recorded in “Serendipidty, Accidental Discoveries in Science,” by Royston M. Roberts:

“I was returning by the last bus, riding outside as usual, through the deserted streets of the city. … I fell into a reverie, and lo, the atoms
were gamboling before my eyes. Whenever, hitherto, these diminutive beings
had appeared to me, they had always been in motion. Now, however, I saw
how, frequently, two smaller atoms united to form a pair; how a larger one embraced the two smaller ones; how still larger ones kept hold of three or
even four of the smaller, whilst the whole kept whirling in a giddy dance.
I saw how the larger ones formed a chain, dragging the smaller ones after
them but only at the ends of the chains. …The cry of the conductor, ‘Clapham Road,’ awakened me from my dreaming; but I spent a part of the night in putting on paper at least sketches of these dream forms.”

Robert Louis Stevenson’s source of inspiration for the plot of The Strange case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde was dream he saw while he was recovering
from an illness. This plot is an important breakthrough in Literature as
it has set a new genre of the struggle between the good and the evil sides
of an individual.

In the early 20th century, scientists believed that our nerves transmitted information electrically. Otto Loewi also known as the “Father of Neuroscience” had the idea for the “frog heart experiment” in a dream which he wrote and performed in the laboratory in the middle of the night.

Author Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley is considered as the mother of science fiction and the world’s first science fiction novel, Frankenstein, is believed to have come from a dream, or in this case a nightmare.

One day, Shelley visited to a fellow poet Lord Byron where Byron
challenged all the guests to compose a ghost story. After Shelley spent
several days thinking to write a story one night she had a dream which she
has described as, “I saw the pale student of unhallowed arts kneeling
beside the thing he had put together. I saw the hideous phantasm of a man stretched out, and then, on the working of some powerful engine, show
signs of life, and stir with an uneasy, half vital motion. Frightful must
it be; for supremely frightful would be the effect of any human endeavour
to mock the stupendous mechanism of the Creator of the World.”

After waking up, Shelley wrote it down, with the hope that what has scared
her will definitely be scary for the readers.

Keith Richards claimed to have dreamed the riff to the song (I Can't Get
No) Satisfaction. He ran through it once before falling asleep. He said
when he listened back to it in the morning, there was about two minutes of acoustic guitar before you could hear him drop the pick and "then me
snoring for the next forty minutes"

***

but it's ok jeremy, it's ONLY dreaming! right? (riiiight...:)

(slider playing air-guitar to (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction :)))

hahaha...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:10:11 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Not a single one of those came from a WILD. Or even from a lucid dream.

Almost all of them came from ordinary unconscious dreams.

You unwittingly come closer to dismissing your own pet practice
than you do to affirming it as especially valuable.

So... hahaha yourself. :)

### - totally not true duh... e.g.,

Franz Kafka '..again it was the power of my dreams, shining forth into wakefulness even before I fall asleep, which did not let me sleep.

(i.e., WILDing, albeit unnamed/unwittingly...)

people like leonardo davinci for instance, who apparently used some
strange technique of laying down in his bed while gazing at shadows cast
on the ceiling by a lighted candle, something which apparently allowed him
to then enter into some kind of strange trance-like state that allowed him
to draw on hidden mental resources whereby he was able to
imagine/visualise new and strange ideas to experiment with...

(WILDing, albeit called something else...)

and/or the famous indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan, whose
contributions to the theory of numbers include pioneering discoveries of
the properties of the partition function, who apparently used a method
very similar to WILDing, in which he got into a state of visual waking awareness and in one instance saw a hand protruding from behind a red wall
that then wrote obscure formulas on that wall that he then memorised and verified when awake, he directly describes, for instance, repeatedly
falling asleep and becoming lucid in the dream-time and communicating with
some being (or deity) from another world...

(WILDing albeit described as something else...)

and/or Socrates, the founder of philosophy, who was apparently able to regularly enter into some kind of an altered state of awareness for hours
on end, and in which he formulated/clarified his ideas (he said he had a 'demon' (or spirit being) that he regularly conversed with that gave him
all his ideas...)

(WILDing, albeit described as trance...)

and/or william blake, whose entire opus (both writing and painting) was,
he claimed, to have been directly inspired by repeated enjoyed
'visitations'

(WILDing, albeit in night-terror form as i posted about here before...)

and/or Tesla, who wrote about being able to deliberately visualise (in his mind) complex engineering problems he was then able to run and experiment
with while looking for flaws in its plans whilst being in some kind of
altered state of consciousness... he said, for example, that he was in communication with other worldly beings, and wrote in a letter to the
american red cross dated 1900, that: "we have a message from another world
- it reads: one, two, three..."

(WILDing, albeit considered trance...)

Thomas Edison. An inventor inspired by dreams. Lucid dreaming wasn’t recognised in his time, but what he did do was induce hypnogogia, Edison
found his creativity in this state, holding steel balls that would drop
onto a tin when he fell asleep and his grip loosened, waking him up.

(WILDing, as qualified by his using hypnagogia to reach it...)

Salvador Dali was influenced by lucid dreams. His surreal paintings are literally out of this world, and more depictions of the fantasy of his subconscious thoughts. Though he’s another famous figure who lived before lucid dreaming became an accepted term, he had definitely already unlocked
the door to lucidity, even encouraging it by explaining in his book of 50 secrets how he reached it.

(WILDing/lucid dreaming for sure as he tells how to do it...)

***

### - 8 very clear examples :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Not a single one of those came from a WILD. Or even from a lucid dream.

Almost all of them came from ordinary unconscious dreams.

You unwittingly come closer to dismissing your own pet practice
than you do to affirming it as especially valuable.

So... hahaha yourself. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

now that's funny, i don't care who you are.

and the band played on...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

LD is just one more thing humans do. If you have any amazing
capabilities in WILD, then you also have them in waking, and in
your ordinary dreaming, and in meditative or visionary states, etc.

That is what I find to be true of myself - and *every* example
you gave shows that too, if you just think about it for a second.

(Example: for every song Keith Richards or Paul McCartney
heard in a dream, they wrote 20 or more great songs in waking.)

And that's what I learned about lucid dreaming, Charlie Brown. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:18:14 +0100, easyst <allreadydun@gmail.com> wrote:

now that's funny, i don't care who you are.

and the band played on...

### - was that rather 'odd' remark addressed to me??

i.e., jeremy has emphatically stated/asserted (many times, even in review
of my book on amazon) that 'nothing' useful/valuable has 'ever' come from 'lucid' dreaming, and that dreaming is just dreaming and of 'no' import
because of that?

the list (of names) is thus a list of more 'famous' peeps and scientists
who made serious contributions to science and the world directly as a
result of them lucid dreaming to varying degrees

that many similar contributions have come from 'ordinary' dreams as well
is neither here nor there, the fact that people have accomplished exactly
the same (or similar) results from ordinary dreams only proving that it is
also possible to 'unconsciously' access the same exact state of altered awareness where such inspiration comes from, something that is then
enhanced 100 fold when then applied to lucid dreaming whereby one isn't
forced to wait for a random chance to supply the whatever information...

is there 'anything' there that ISN'T clear?

cool :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

James Camerson

The director of Avatar (as well as countless other hit movies including
The Terminator, True Lies and Titanic) has cited lucid dreams as being the inspiration for one of his famous movie scenes. Musing on Avatar, he said: "...I've kind of realized that what I was trying to do was create dream imagery, create a lucid dream state while you're watching the film,"
Cameron told Hollywood Today.

"I think that most people dream of flying at some point and when we're
kids we dream of flying and I certainly did, and still have a lot of
flying dreams and I thought that if I can connect to an audience, to a
kind of collective unconscious in almost the Jungian sense, then it
bypasses all the politics and all the bull***, and all the culturally
specific stuff and all the language specific stuff around the world and connects us all to that kind of childhood, dreamlike state when the world
was magical and infinite and scary and cool and you could soar. So that
was the concept behind these scenes. And for me, personally, this was the
part of the movie that I like the best, that I can watch over and over
again."

***

A genius inventor, Tesla is best known for his many revolutionary
developments in the field of electromagnetism. His work formed the basis
of modern-day commercial electricity using Alternating Current (AC) power systems. However, he also came up with many marvelous scientific claims,
some of which remain unresolved to this day, nearly 70 years after his
death.

Nikola Tesla possessed some extraordinary mental characteristics: an acute sense of hearing, visualization skills so vivid as to mimic reality, and bizarre eccentricities of habit and behavior. His visualizations enabled
him to conduct realistic "dream experiments" while he was wide-awake in
the lab. As a result, it is very tempting to suggest that, in his virtual laboratory, Tesla functioned one level above the lucid dream state. He had
the ability, while being both physically and mentally awake, to run
complex visualizations internally with all the realism and automaticity of
a lucid dream world.

***

The famous surrealist painter, Salvador Dali, knew that lucid dreams were
real long before they were scientifically verified in the lab. He used
dream incubation techniques to pre-program his dreams, and produced many dream-inspired works, such as Dream Caused by the Flight of a Bee Around a Pomegranate a Second Before Awakening.

Dali also pursued some forms of automatism as a way of inspiring new works straight from the unconscious. However, he eventually turned to a method
he called "critical paranoia" - a state in which he could apparently
cultivate delusion while maintaining sanity. His eccentric persona, which
is what helped make him so famous, was even considered part of his art practice.

***

As the director of Memento and The Dark Knight, Chris Nolan mined his own
lucid dreams to conceive Inception.

"I wanted to do this for a very long time, it's something I've thought
about off and on since I was about 16," he told The Los Angeles Times. "I
wrote the first draft of this script seven or eight years ago, but it goes
back much further, this idea of approaching dream and the dream life as
another state of reality."

Intriguingly, Inception's main character, Dom Cobb, is played by Hollywood celebrity Leonardo DiCaprio who also had lucid dreams before starring in
the movie. The role of Cobb in the tangled dream-within-a-dream plot is to implant an idea in the unconscious mind of his victim.

While the idea of shared dreaming currently resides in the land of science fiction, we can't escape the inherent truths of this movie: that the dream architects consciously manipulate the dreamscape with all the realism of
waking life. Also like lucid dreams, however, the unconscious mind has its
own agenda...

***

The famous American physicist, Richard Feynman, declared his aptitude for
lucid dreaming in his national bestseller, Surely You're Joking, Mr.
Feynman! He dedicated an entire chapter to his experiments with lucid
dreaming where he gave a detailed account of how he influenced his dreams:

"I also noticed that as you go to sleep the ideas continue, but they
become less and less logically interconnected. You don't notice that
they're not logically connected until you ask yourself, "What made me
think of that?" and you try to work your way back, and often you can't
remember what the hell did make you think of that! So you get every
illusion of logical connection, but the actual fact is that the thoughts
become more and more cockeyed until they're completely disjointed, and
beyond that, you fall asleep.

"I kept practicing this watching myself as I went to sleep. One night,
while I was having a dream, I realized I was observing myself in the
dream. I had gotten all the way down, into the sleep itself!

"I discovered that I could turn around, and walk back through the train --
I could control the direction of my dream. I get back to the car with the special window, and I see three old guys playing violins -- but they
turned back into girls! So I could modify the direction of my dream, but
not perfectly."

***

The electronic musician also known as Aphex Twin, Richard D James has
publicly stated that the sounds from his album Selected Ambient Works
Volume II were inspired by lucid dreams. Upon waking, he would attempt to re-create the sounds and record them.

This album consists of lengthy ambient compositions which James has
described as being "like standing in a power station on acid". James also claims to have natural synesthesia which contributes to his work.

***

The director of the dreamy live-action rotoscoped movie, Waking Life,
Richard Linklater is very familiar with the concept of lucid dreams. The
movie is an intriguing philosophical jaunt into the world of lucid
dreaming and asks the question: "Are we sleep-walking through our waking
state or wake-walking through our dreams?"

The animation technique used in Waking Life requires animators to trace
over live-action film movement, frame by frame, giving a curious
dream-like appearance; real but not real. Rotoscoping was again used in Linklater's 2006 movie, A Scanner Darkly. This movie also pressures its protagonists to make a decision about the reality they are experiencing
and to "wake up", to see their world for what it really is.

***

The creators of The Matrix, Andy and Lana Wachowski, are lucid dreamers
who drew on this notion to create a virtual reality world in which we are
all mentally enslaved, not recognizing that we are merely "dreaming".
According to the official Matrix website, they drew on a whole host of philosophies to devise the plot, including Descartes, Mahayana Buddhism
and the proverbial "brain in the vat" problem. The conundrum of The Matrix
is: "How do I know that my reality is not an illusion?" This is the key to unlocking a dream and becoming consciously lucid.

The Wachowskis convey this and more in their sci-fi trilogy. They show us
that the simple suspicion that you are dreaming is not enough (Neo knew
this from the start, yet he still wasn't able to control the Matrix yet). Instead, you must train your mind in your own lucid dojo before you can
achieve full creative action. Like Neo, many newbie lucid dreamers have difficulty flying (or at least staying airborne) until they have been
through their own personal training regime. We learn the mental
perspective required to understand what makes flight possible in a
non-physical dream world. Because of this insight, The Matrix is a
veritable instruction manual for lucid dreamers.

***

Thomas Edison – Although we aren’t sure if his famous inventions came
about because of his dreams, many people believe that Edison was an avid
lucid dreamer. There were some times where he would place a metal tin on
the floor between his feet and hold a rock in his hands while he was brainstorming, so that if he fell asleep the rock would fall into the tin
and wake him up. In those days, this was a strategy for lucid dreaming.
Edison believed that dreams were often the forerunner to brilliant ideas.

(note how this technique closely resembles the dalai lama's method of
WILDing?)

***

Guillermo del Toro is one of the most inventive filmmakers working today, who’s films Cronos, The Devil’s Backbone, Hellboy, Pan’s Labyrinth, Pacific Rim, and Crimson Peak reinvented the genres of horror, fantasy,
and science fiction.

Now, the director has unleashed an exhibition at LACMA that takes us
inside his imagination. Guillermo del Toro: At Home with the Monsters is a beautiful and macabre journey through the lucid dreams and childhood experiences that inspired his work, alongside a collection of grotesque, creepy, strange, and fantastical objects, paintings, charcoal drawings, insects, and artefacts relating to horror and the occult, as well as a selection of costuming, props, and concept art from his work.

***

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Well, if you're going to count hypnagogia, meditative gazing,
and any kind of "vision" as "WILD", then ... you still seem to
have trouble coming up with more than a few dozen examples max,
out of the tens of thousands of great human ideas that have been.

And why no major new insights from YOU, Mr. WILD? :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:34:29 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, if you're going to count hypnagogia, meditative gazing,
and any kind of "vision" as "WILD", then ... you still seem to
have trouble coming up with more than a few dozen examples max,
out of the tens of thousands of great human ideas that have been.

### - are you 'really' that slow that you can't read/see the implications
of what i've been suggesting for yourself?? isn't it... obvious? (it is to
me at any rate!)

that what we've labeled as being one's 'imagination' IS that very same
area of awareness that's being tapped to varying degrees in ALL instances!
that during waking (where you're correctly saying/suggesting the vast
majority of all our more brilliant ideas derived from to date...) that
access is minimal and often conditioned in various ways and thus varies to greater or lesser degrees from individual to individual, thus some people
are said to have a better/greater 'imagination' than others by default, 'imagination' being an area of awareness that's even better/more-directly accessed via ordinary dreams (and DILDs) because those same conditioning (rational/logical) factors are noticeably suspended/reduced, the creme de
la creme of such access being WILDs wherein 'full waking' access to that
same area of one's imagination (the subconscious mind so-called) is
available always more or less to a much higher degree! and because one effectively accesses it in the very same frame of mind you're in right now!

that if people can arrive at such great ideas while they're awake in the
day due to being 'able' to access this imaginative area of their
consciousness to a greater degree than average and/or via training, then
how much more so would this be the case if 'not' just left to function on
the randomly occasional individual who just so happens to have a slightly better imagination than someone else!

that in truth, 'everyone' actually has an 'incredible' imagination! (as incredible say, and as able as, anything experienced in any dream, lucid
or otherwise!) but which is severely limited by various factors during
waking in the day! a limit that is almost completely removed under the 'circumstances' of dreaming! (i.e., even morons are capable of the most incredibly imaginative unconscious dreams!) which is increased again
during dilds which occur during an ordinary dream, and maximised during WILDing!

the implication being... that IF we can come up with such cool ideas while having just ordinary access to one's imagination (as we obviously do and
have done) then this is enhanced 100-fold when lucid dreaming in ordinary dreams, and becomes nearly 100% full access when WILDing!

iow: by implication everyone has the innate ability to be a genuine...
genius!

but only if they're capable of more readily accessing that area of our awareness where such ideas can be more easily & readily put together! the
same imagination one experiences more directly during ordinary dreams,
even more so during a dild, and is at its maximum during a WILD!

truth is we haven't even 'begun' to explore all this!

baby steps!

that if the human race has been able to invent such amazing things from accessing his ordinary imagination, then how much more so/better will his inventions be/become when he's more able to access that part of his
awareness where ALL these brill ideas come from! :)

And why no major new insights from YOU, Mr. WILD? :)

### - 'consider' what we're currently discussing here in terms of what our imaginations actually, plus in reality are, and how access to it can be enhanced/increased inordinately with as yet unknown results! (although not completely unknown because we do have actual examples of startling ideas & discoveries made in exactly that manner!)

and that's precisely what am working on currently :)

that if to date, for example, we've only been accessing say 10% (or
whatever) of our brain/awareness/capacity, then being able to consciously
WILD could very well easily double that!

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

### - in this 'movie' it's a... pill?

in reality, WILDing has the very same effect...

eventually ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-ZwmCPBAs

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From: slider@nanashram.com

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 01:16:49 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

LD is just one more thing humans do.

### - yes! but as yet remains almost completely unexplored/mapped in
modern terms!

If you have any amazing
capabilities in WILD, then you also have them in waking, and in
your ordinary dreaming, and in meditative or visionary states, etc.

### - agreed! everyone is thus a potential genius! only the vast majority
never get beyond that of ordinary dreams & dreaming so never ever get to realise their full potential which remains unknown to them... it's not
that they don't have it, it just remains latent and/or is never allowed
(or encouraged beyond a point) to expand/grow beyond that of
ordinary/average dreams & imagination!

That is what I find to be true of myself - and *every* example
you gave shows that too, if you just think about it for a second.

### - i 'have' thought about it, in great depth for the last nigh-on 14
years since first bumping into WILDs, i published the results of my
research last year... everyone can WILD (or iow: access their
'imagination' directly sans the usual filters!) only no one really knows
about it yet because it's so recent!

i.e., dilds came first, and because of that there are still many misunderstandings and false impressions about the whole phenomenon that
have remained unchallenged until WILDs came along... WILDS revealing, for
the first time, what in fact lucid dreaming 'actually' is and/or
represents! dilds (and thus ordinary dreams too) being the poor relation
by comparison, and as such are not fully representative of what it's
really 'all' about!

the study of ordinary dreams in relation to the so-called 'subconscious
mind' ultimately gave us psychology and psychiatry, dilds gave us the recognition that lucid dreaming 'is' an explorable reality albeit still
all rather vague and somewhat mysterious, WILDs consolidates/resolves the problem and reveals what the whole thing is actually really all about by throwing ordinary dreams AND dilds into relief! thus revealing their true
place in the grander scheme of things in terms of genuinely accessing
one's imagination/subconscious-mind in a far more deliberate and conscious manner than ever before, except in numerous 'random' cases whereby the
process wasn't really nor actually understood beyond the fact that it
somehow worked...

(Example: for every song Keith Richards or Paul McCartney
heard in a dream, they wrote 20 or more great songs in waking.)

### - that's true! only it misses/overlooks the important point that ALL
their work originated in the first instance IN their imagination! an imagination/subconscious-mind accessed by default in the majority of cases (iow: by the sweat of their brow/talent) but still better than average by
dint of them 'already' somehow having better access to same than most!

thus it could be said that they seemingly had above-average imaginations
that allowed them to then perhaps be more creative/talented than others...
and that occasionally, albeit purely randomly, they also received an imaginative inspiration more directly (i.e., without having to
deliberately work for it) via ordinary dreams... the inspiration itself
coming from exactly the 'same' area of awareness/imagination all the
others derived from, only in 'these' cases they came complete and/or
without the deliberate effort it usually/normally involves!

dilds bringing a somewhat more conscious access (of same) to the table - a proof of concept kinda thing that it's even possible to directly access
the subconscious mind, albeit beyond one's ability to willfully induce
(i.e., like ordinary dreams, ya have to wait upon chance to supply the opportunity to dild because there's no apparent on/off switch involved)
whereas WILDs then completely resolves/consolidates the whole thing into a completely 'conscious and deliberate' act that can be initiated at will
and on demand! something that then makes 'everyone' very talented instead
of only the 'talented few' whose imaginations just so happened to be more readily available to them than on average!

that what 'made' them seemingly more talented than others, being merely
their innate ability to more readily access their own imagination(s) to a higher degree! whereas via WILDs 'everyone' becomes above average in their ability to readily access said imagination/subconscious-mind!

iow: WILDS makes 'everyone' above averagely talented by dint of providing greater access to their own creative imagination where ALL these ideas
come from in the first place!

And that's what I learned about lucid dreaming, Charlie Brown. :)

### - and, well, maybe you've just learned a bit more :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

### - there are very few descriptions of how Nostradamus 'did his thing'
to come up with all his strange ideas and predictions and stuff, but it's mostly assumed to have been the result of some kinda trance or unknown mediative state...

e.g., in his dedication to King Henri II, Nostradamus describes "emptying
my soul, mind and heart of all care, worry and unease through mental calm
and tranquility", but his frequent references to the "bronze tripod" of
the Delphic rite are usually preceded by the words "as though"

iow: he describes what he believes are (or are assumed to be)
'delphic-type' visions brought on by a process of deliberate mental
relaxation and quietude, whereby he then gains access to some kind of
altered state of awareness wherein he has/saw all these... 'visions'

which is exactly how one 'could' describe WILDing! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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