• Re: Papers Denying Human Caused Climate Change Are Flawed

    From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 09:30:38
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    New Scientist
    Eight low-lying Pacific islands swallowed whole by rising seas

    By Alice Klein

    At least eight low-lying islands in the Pacific Ocean have disappeared under rising seas.

    Sea levels are currently climbing by an average of 3 millimetres per year around the world due to climate change. But they are creeping up even faster in
    the western Pacific, where a natural trade wind cycle has caused an extra build-up of water over the
    last half-century.

    In Micronesia and the Solomon Islands, which lie in the western Pacific, sea levels have risen by up to 12 millimetres per year since the early 1990s.

    In 2016, a study led by Simon Albert at the University of Queensland in Australia found that five of the Solomon Islands had been lost since the mid-20th century.

    Now, Patrick Nunn at the University of the Sunshine Coast in Australia has observed a similar phenomenon in Micronesia.

    Miniature Atlantises
    His team conducted coastal surveys, spoke to local people and reviewed satellite images for the island of Pohnpei and several low-lying islands scattered throughout the surrounding reef.

    Pohnpei shows surprisingly little coastal erosion, probably because it is relatively high above sea level and ringed by mangrove forest, says Nunn. “Mangroves provide a buffer by absorbing wave energy and trapping sediment,” he says.

    Three small islands on the west side are also well-preserved, possibly because they are sheltered from strong winds and waves by the main island, says Nunn. A
    nearby coral atoll – Ant Atoll – also has very little erosion, which is probably because an
    adjacent lagoon acts like a sediment trap.

    However, several of the other low-lying reef islands – mostly to the south of
    the main island – have shrunk considerably or disappeared entirely.

    Lost to the waves
    And some islands have disappeared entirely. Local people told the researchers about two former islands called Kepidau en Pehleng and Nahlapenlohd – the latter of which was famous for hosting a great battle between warring chiefdoms
    in 1850. Both appear
    to have vanished within the last century.

    Aerial images revealed that another six low-lying islands – in the unpopulated Laiap, Nahtik and Ros island chains – became submerged between 2007 and 2014. Each was about 100 square metres.

    These changes in Micronesia are a preview for other low-lying nations around the world, says Nunn. As sea levels continue to rise, many inhabitants will be forced to move to higher ground, he says. This is already happening in the low-lying Carteret
    Islands of Papua New Guinea, where a resettlement scheme is underway to move the population to Bougainville – a higher island 90 kilometres away.

    However, one positive finding from the Micronesia study and others is that not all low-lying islands are destroyed by rising seas, says Albert. Islands that are sheltered, or have mangrove forests or lagoons for trapping sediment, appear to have good
    resilience, he says.

    “These are the first places on Earth to experience really high rates of sea level rise, so they give great insights into what can happen,” says Albert. “But we’re finding there’s a large diversity of responses – not every island will erode.”

    Understanding why will help us plan our response as seas rise around the world.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 08:01:34
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    Those 3% of scientific papers that deny climate change?
    A review found them all flawed

    https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scientific-papers-that-deny-climate-change-are-all-flawed/

    It’s often said that of all the published scientific research on climate change, 97% of the papers conclude that global warming is real, problematic for
    the planet, and has been exacerbated by human activity.

    But what about those 3% of papers that reach contrary conclusions? Some skeptics have suggested that the authors of studies indicating that climate change is not real, not harmful, or not man-made are bravely standing up for the truth, like maverick
    thinkers of the past. (Galileo is often invoked, though his fellow scientists mostly agreed with his conclusions — it was church leaders who tried to suppress them.)

    Not so, according to a review published in the journal of Theoretical and Applied Climatology. The researchers tried to replicate the results of those 3%
    of papers — a common way to test scientific studies — and found biased, faulty results.

    Katharine Hayhoe, an atmospheric scientist at Texas Tech University, worked with a team of researchers to look at the 38 papers published in peer-reviewed journals in the last decade that denied anthropogenic global warming.

    “Every single one of those analyses had an error—in their assumptions, methodology, or analysis—that, when corrected, brought their results into line with the scientific consensus,” Hayhoe wrote in a Facebook post.

    One of Hayhoe’s co-authors, Rasmus Benestad, an atmospheric scientist at the Norwegian Meteorological Institute, built the program using the computer language R—which conveniently works on all computer platforms — to replicate each of the papers’
    results and to try to understand how they reached their conclusions. Benestad’s program found that none of the papers had results that were replicable, at least not with generally accepted science.

    Broadly, there were three main errors in the papers denying climate change. Many had cherry-picked the results that conveniently supported their conclusion, while ignoring other context or records. Then there were some that applied inappropriate “curve-
    fitting” — in which they would step farther and farther away from data until the points matched the curve of their choosing.

    And of course, sometimes the papers just ignored physics altogether. “In many
    cases, shortcomings are due to insufficient model evaluation, leading to results that are not universally valid but rather are an artifact of a particular experimental setup,�
    �� the authors write.

    Those who assert that these papers are correct while the other 97% are wrong are holding up science where the researchers had already decided what results they sought, the authors of the review say. Good science is objective — it doesn’t care what
    anyone wants the answers to be.

    The review serves as an answer to the charge that the minority view on climate change has been consistently suppressed, wrote Hayhoe. “It’s a lot easier for someone to claim they’ve been suppressed than to admit that maybe they can’t find the
    scientific evidence to support their political ideology… They weren’t suppressed. They’re out there, where anyone can find them.” Indeed, the review raises the question of how these papers came to be published in the first place, when they used
    flawed methodology, which the rigorous peer-review process is designed to weed out.

    In an article for the Guardian, one of the researchers, Dana Nuccitelli points out another red flag with the climate-change-denying papers: “There is no cohesive, consistent alternative theory to human-caused global warming,” he writes. “Some blame
    global warming on the sun, others on orbital cycles of other planets, others on
    ocean cycles, and so on. There is a 97% expert consensus on a cohesive theory that’s overwhelmingly supported by the scientific evidence, but the 2–3% of
    papers that
    reject that consensus are all over the map, even contradicting each other.”

    The Galileo example is also instructive, Nuccitelli points out. The “father of observational science,” championed the astronomical model that the earth and other planets in our solar system revolve around the sun — a view that was eventually
    accepted almost universally as the truth. “If any of the contrarians were a modern-day Galileo, he would present a theory that’s supported by the scientific evidence and that’s not based on methodological errors,” he writes. “Such a sound
    theory would convince scientific experts, and a consensus would begin to form.”

    ***

    I'd say that merely to point out how papers denying climate change
    contain "methodological errors" is the POLITE way of saying it.
    The truth is that most of those papers are ideologically biased
    and are *intentional* distortions. So not only are they all wrong,
    but also most of them were *intended* to deceive. The piece of
    evidence that best supports that suspicion is that not only are
    the contrarian papers flawed, they're also "all over the map,
    even contradicting each other".

    So yes Slider, here's one of the things you "like to debate". :)
    It really hasn't been debatable for at least a decade or two
    and now it is even less so.

    Personally, I first realized climate change would be
    a major problem for the world back in the late 1970's.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From totallyfucked@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 10:23:24
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    carbon tax?? riiiight.... :)

    (and before you get upset, the above last remark IS a joke!)

    won't be long before we start leasing our air too.
    some fucker will be charging for 'clean' air.
    step right up, get your 'organic air'. ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 18:39:19
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    carbon tax?? riiiight.... :)

    (and before you get upset, the above last remark IS a joke!)

    won't be long before we start leasing our air too.
    some fucker will be charging for 'clean' air.
    step right up, get your 'organic air'. ;)

    ### - air tax! don't pay and you get cut-off!

    the perfect business plan! lol :)

    reminds a funny story here some years ago re self-disconnecting meters for utilities?

    only for the poor of course hah, and ironically 'the' most expensive form
    of unit purchase!

    worked like a treat! no one wanted to be in the dark or without
    heating/cooking so they found a way to pay come what may! (it's impossible
    to live without gas/electricity in any major city!)

    worked sooo well, they thought to apply it to water meter supplies as well?

    and, as a test experiment, a whole 20-floor tower block (poor people's
    housing) was converted to all these self-disconnecting water meters! good
    idea huh?

    that is, until peeps finding that they couldn't flush their toilets
    without water, started throwing their waste out the window?? (no other
    choice really was there?) hahaha...

    the upshot of which, what with shit raining down from the sky all around
    24/7 (lol), was the rather rapid change BACK to the more usual metering methods??? LOL LOL :)))

    i think funny! :)))

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 12:35:00
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    So you just keep arguing? Really?
    Even when it's not just 97% of the science, it's more like 100%?

    Incredible.

    *All* the correct science shows *humans* are causing damaging
    global warming, yet you just natter on with your own silly notions,
    based on nothing. Man, that's so... you. :)

    Incapable of admitting he's wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Thursday, September 07, 2017 17:35:05
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:01:34 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:


    Those 3% of scientific papers that deny climate change?
    A review found them all flawed

    https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scientific-papers-that-deny-climate-change-are-all-flawed/

    It’s often said that of all the published scientific research on climate change, 97% of the papers conclude that global warming is real,
    problematic for the planet, and has been exacerbated by human activity.

    But what about those 3% of papers that reach contrary conclusions? Some skeptics have suggested that the authors of studies indicating that
    climate change is not real, not harmful, or not man-made are bravely
    standing up for the truth, like maverick thinkers of the past. (Galileo
    is often invoked, though his fellow scientists mostly agreed with his conclusions — it was church leaders who tried to suppress them.)

    Not so, according to a review published in the journal of Theoretical
    and Applied Climatology. The researchers tried to replicate the results
    of those 3% of papers — a common way to test scientific studies — and found biased, faulty results.

    Katharine Hayhoe, an atmospheric scientist at Texas Tech University,
    worked with a team of researchers to look at the 38 papers published in peer-reviewed journals in the last decade that denied anthropogenic
    global warming.

    “Every single one of those analyses had an error—in their assumptions, methodology, or analysis—that, when corrected, brought their results
    into line with the scientific consensus,” Hayhoe wrote in a Facebook
    post.

    One of Hayhoe’s co-authors, Rasmus Benestad, an atmospheric scientist at the Norwegian Meteorological Institute, built the program using the
    computer language R—which conveniently works on all computer platforms — to replicate each of the papers’ results and to try to understand how
    they reached their conclusions. Benestad’s program found that none of
    the papers had results that were replicable, at least not with generally accepted science.

    Broadly, there were three main errors in the papers denying climate
    change. Many had cherry-picked the results that conveniently supported
    their conclusion, while ignoring other context or records. Then there
    were some that applied inappropriate “curve-fitting” — in which they would step farther and farther away from data until the points matched
    the curve of their choosing.

    And of course, sometimes the papers just ignored physics altogether. “In many cases, shortcomings are due to insufficient model evaluation,
    leading to results that are not universally valid but rather are an
    artifact of a particular experimental setup,” the authors write.

    Those who assert that these papers are correct while the other 97% are
    wrong are holding up science where the researchers had already decided
    what results they sought, the authors of the review say. Good science is objective — it doesn’t care what anyone wants the answers to be.

    The review serves as an answer to the charge that the minority view on climate change has been consistently suppressed, wrote Hayhoe. “It’s a lot easier for someone to claim they’ve been suppressed than to admit
    that maybe they can’t find the scientific evidence to support their political ideology… They weren’t suppressed. They’re out there, where anyone can find them.” Indeed, the review raises the question of how
    these papers came to be published in the first place, when they used
    flawed methodology, which the rigorous peer-review process is designed
    to weed out.

    In an article for the Guardian, one of the researchers, Dana Nuccitelli points out another red flag with the climate-change-denying papers:
    “There is no cohesive, consistent alternative theory to human-caused
    global warming,” he writes. “Some blame global warming on the sun,
    others on orbital cycles of other planets, others on ocean cycles, and
    so on. There is a 97% expert consensus on a cohesive theory that’s overwhelmingly supported by the scientific evidence, but the 2–3% of
    papers that reject that consensus are all over the map, even
    contradicting each other.”

    The Galileo example is also instructive, Nuccitelli points out. The
    “father of observational science,” championed the astronomical model
    that the earth and other planets in our solar system revolve around the
    sun — a view that was eventually accepted almost universally as the
    truth. “If any of the contrarians were a modern-day Galileo, he would present a theory that’s supported by the scientific evidence and that’s not based on methodological errors,” he writes. “Such a sound theory would convince scientific experts, and a consensus would begin to form.”

    ***

    I'd say that merely to point out how papers denying climate change
    contain "methodological errors" is the POLITE way of saying it.
    The truth is that most of those papers are ideologically biased
    and are *intentional* distortions. So not only are they all wrong,
    but also most of them were *intended* to deceive. The piece of
    evidence that best supports that suspicion is that not only are
    the contrarian papers flawed, they're also "all over the map,
    even contradicting each other".

    So yes Slider, here's one of the things you "like to debate". :)
    It really hasn't been debatable for at least a decade or two
    and now it is even less so.

    Personally, I first realized climate change would be
    a major problem for the world back in the late 1970's.

    ### - been over all this before; that there are many possible reasons why
    the planet is warming and human contribution is only one of them... e.g.,
    the fact that the earth has warmed and cooled several times previously - *before humans were even around* - IS suggestive of 'other' forces at work
    that CAN cause this to happen that we don't as yet perhaps fully
    understand... and that haven't as yet been totally ruled out...

    that, technically speaking, we are for instance living in the middle of a
    'warm period' right in the middle of a major ice-age! - did humans
    'create' this 'warm period' right in the middle of an ice age? hell no! something else did! plus who's to say just 'how long' this 'warmer period' right in the middle of a major ice age will last before it all freezes
    over again? or just how warm it's gonna get before it does??

    or are we REALLY artificially 'saving the world' from a major ice age
    that's on-going/continuing??

    it's doubtful + is 'far more' likely that we don't really know shit yet
    about 'all' the mechanisms involved! (5% max? is not enough! kinda
    thing...)

    thus 'chances are' we're... wrong! - in just about everything! lol :)

    iow: observationally; we have a distinct tendency to: flatter ourselves!

    and in the meantime: to create new industries based on... fear

    carbon tax?? riiiight.... :)

    (and before you get upset, the above last remark IS a joke!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 12:37:48
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    Global Warming Timeline, American Institute of Physics: https://history.aip.org/climate/timeline.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From totallyfucked@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 13:31:07
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    boring hand fucking ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 21:44:05
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    can't stop what's cumming says...

    boring hand fucking ;)

    ### - or, depending on how you look at it:

    'love in the palm of your hand'?

    hahaha :)))

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Thursday, September 07, 2017 21:29:06
    From: slider@anashram.org

    On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:35:00 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    Incapable of admitting he's wrong.

    ### - we have a debate: just stick to the facts instead of wandering-off
    into invective? (you can't run a debate like trumpy ran his election campaign!?! heh, well you can, but it only always ends in a brawl... have
    some discipline! where's your rebuttal??)

    quote from previously:
    if i 'knew' i was wrong i would! but i don't know, and neither do you!
    unquote.

    i.e., even 'thang' agreed with this! (and heh, he hates 'anything' i say/suggest!)

    iow: you are merely advocating for (and quoting from) the current
    consensus on the matter!

    however, time & again such a 'consensus' has later been radically revised!

    e.g., just after newton's time, you'd have thus been arguing for a fixed/mechanical universe being correct and written in stone, something
    that seemed perfectly correct (everyone said so!) but which was ultimately upended by einstein who proved that newton was naive? and/or only
    'partially' correct!

    iow: the 'man-made' aspect of global warming isn't written in stone even
    though it may currently appear to be! it's also a consensus based on 'projections' extrapolated from a much smaller sample as opposed to a full/complete sample!

    so, in reality, am really only arguing to keep an open mind on it until a
    more complete sample is available and/or the full facts are in! plus,
    there ARE other possible reasons for warming that haven't as yet
    potentially even been discovered/eliminated/fully checked out!

    a 'consensus' does not a final reality make! it's more like a belief than
    fact :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From totallyfucked@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 15:54:28
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    ok how's this then: boring

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From dworrell@theuprise.net@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 16:24:34
    You don't have an open mind. And yes, your opinions are boring.
    Scientists are *always* open - not to opinions - but to new data.
    I've said that here like... I don't know, at least ten times.

    What has been determined is that deniers (like you) have no good data.
    You won't even look at the good data.

    ***

    National Geographic - On Climate Change http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/03/editors-note-climate-change/

    In the past three years, this great magazine has run 34 stories on
    climate change — including a special issue devoted entirely to the topic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 07, 2017 16:34:02
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    You don't have an open mind, Slider. And yes, your opinions are boring. Scientists are *always* open - not to opinions - but to new data.
    I've said that here like... I don't know, at least ten times.

    What has been determined is that deniers (like you) have no good data.
    You won't even look at the good data.

    ***

    National Geographic - On Climate Change http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/03/editors-note-climate-change/


    In the past three years, this great magazine has run 34 stories on
    climate change — including a special issue devoted entirely to the topic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Donovan@1:229/2 to All on Saturday, September 09, 2017 08:33:15
    From: jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com

    Not even the conservatives support
    The madness going on at the EPA...

    ***

    Christine Todd Whitman: How Not to Run the E.P.A.
    September 8, 2017

    I have been worried about how the Environmental Protection Agency would be run ever since President Trump appointed Scott Pruitt, the former attorney general of Oklahoma, to oversee it. The past few months have confirmed my fears. The agency created by a
    Republican president 47 years ago to protect the environment and public health may end up doing neither under Mr. Pruitt’s direction.

    As a Republican appointed by President George W. Bush to run the agency, I can hardly be written off as part of the liberal resistance to the new administration. But the evidence is abundant of the dangerous political turn of
    an agency that is supposed
    to be guided by science.

    The E.P.A.’s recent attack on a reporter for The Associated Press and the installation of a political appointee to ferret out grants containing “the double C-word” are only the latest manifestations of my fears, which mounted with Mr. Pruitt’s
    swift and legally questionable repeals of E.P.A. regulations — actions that pose real and lasting threats to the nation’s land, air, water and public health.

    All of that is bad enough. But Mr. Pruitt recently unveiled a plan that amounts
    to a slow-rolling catastrophe in the making: the creation of an antagonistic “red team” of dissenting scientists to challenge the conclusions reached by
    thousands of
    scientists over decades of research on climate change. It will serve only to confuse the public and sets a deeply troubling precedent for policy-making at the E.P.A.

    The red-team approach makes sense in the military and in consumer and technology companies, where assumptions about enemy strategy or a competitor’s plans are rooted in unknowable human choices. But the basic physics of the climate are well understood.
    Burning fossil fuels emits carbon dioxide. And carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that traps heat in the atmosphere. There is no debate about that. The link is as certain as the link between smoking and cancer.

    A broad consensus of scientists also warn of the influence of the warming climate on extreme weather events. Hurricanes Harvey and Irma, the enormous wildfires in the Western United States and widespread flooding from monsoons in
    Southeast Asia are
    potent reminders of the cost of ignoring climate science.

    As a Republican like Mr. Pruitt, I too embrace the promise of the free market and worry about the perils of overregulation. But decisions must be based on reliable science. The red team begins with his politically preferred conclusion
    that climate change
    isn’t a problem, and it will seek evidence to justify that position. That’s
    the opposite of how science works. True science follows the evidence. The critical tests of peer review and replication ensure that the consensus is sound. Government bases
    policy on those results. This applies to liberals and conservatives alike.

    There are two sides, at least, to most political questions, and a politician’s impulse may be to believe that the same holds true for science. Certainly, there are disputes in science. But on the question of climate change, the divide is stark. On one
    side is the overwhelming consensus of thousands of scientists at universities, research centers and the government who publish in peer-reviewed literature, are cited regularly by fellow scientists and are certain that humans are contributing to climate
    change.

    On the other side is a tiny minority of contrarians who publish very little by comparison, are rarely cited in the scientific literature and are often funded by fossil fuel interests, and whose books are published, most often, by special
    interest groups.
    That Mr. Pruitt seeks to use the power of the E.P.A. to elevate those who have already lost the argument is shameful, and the only outcome will be that the public will know less about the science of climate change than before.

    The red-team idea is a waste of the government’s time, energy and resources, and a slap in the face to fiscal responsibility and responsible governance. Sending scientists on a wild-goose chase so that Mr. Pruitt, Rick Perry, the energy secretary, who
    has endorsed this approach, and President Trump can avoid acknowledging and acting on the reality of climate change is simply unjustifiable. And truly, it ignores and distracts from the real imperative: developing solutions that create good jobs, grow
    our economy, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and prepare for the impacts of climate change.

    Policy should always be rooted in unbiased science. The E.P.A. is too important
    to treat like a reality TV show. People’s lives and our country’s resources
    are at stake. Mr. Pruitt should respect his duty to the agency’s mission, end
    the red team
    and call on his agency’s scientists to educate him. No doubt they’re willing and eager to impart the knowledge they’ve dedicated their lives to understanding.

    If this project goes forward, it should be treated for what it is: a shameful attempt to confuse the public into accepting the false premise that there is no
    need to regulate fossil fuels.
    Christine Todd Whitman, president of the Whitman Strategy Group, was the E.P.A.
    administrator from 2001 to 2003 and the governor of New Jersey from 1994 to 2001.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 18:31:07
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    What if it's a big hoax? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouqe32ogbk0aoim/hoax.jpg?dl=0

    And we create a better world for nothing?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Thursday, September 14, 2017 15:11:37
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:31:07 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:


    What if it's a big hoax? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouqe32ogbk0aoim/hoax.jpg?dl=0

    And we create a better world for nothing?

    ### - better world?!?!

    i think they're just about to blow us all up aren't they?

    (it's now cheaper than actually fixing anything...)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:30:39
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    A better world will include cleaner air and water, healthier people,
    fewer species extinctions, sustainable practices, etc.

    We've lived with a real possibility of being 'blown up' for over
    half a century, which will continue to be a bad option.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 14, 2017 21:09:45
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    Jeremy wrote...

    A better world will include cleaner air and water, healthier people,
    fewer species extinctions, sustainable practices, etc.
    We've lived with a real possibility of being 'blown up' for over
    half a century, which will continue to be a bad option.

    ### - a 'better' world is likely 'only' in direct proportion to humanity's sanity or not as the case may be?

    in which case; the dire state of our world currently speaks volumes about
    just how mad we are/have ultimately become... or always were depending on
    how ya look at it heh...

    bunch of fuckin' NUTS on this planet!

    (i only consider myself to be 'approaching' sanity btw , there's still a
    long way to go;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsynSgeo_Uo :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 14, 2017 21:31:02
    From: slider@nanashram.com

    i'm just fucking nuts that way
    no one can ever accuse me of being
    OR acting sane. keep smiling though.

    ### - imho ur better than many but still worse than others hahaha...

    still walkin' the line here boss! :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From easyst@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, September 14, 2017 13:24:52
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    i'm just fucking nuts that way
    no one can ever accuse me of being
    OR acting sane. keep smiling though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)