• Re: Scientists studying psychoactive drugs accidentally proved the self

    From slider@1:229/2 to All on Monday, July 02, 2018 20:00:09
    From: slider@anashram.com

    the jeremy wrote...

    See what I did there?

    ### - vanity! vanity! all is...

    no hang-on a minute, scratch that...

    lies! lies! ALL is lies? :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From fuckowski@1:229/2 to All on Monday, July 02, 2018 09:08:24
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    ### - heh, apparently we are merely the 'imagination' of ourselves :)

    i gotta say my own experience back in July of 1970 still ranks
    as the number one experience of all time in my life. Nothing
    comes close. Of course i took way too much. Never never again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Monday, July 02, 2018 10:47:14
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    Wrt a 'fixed self' - the keyword is 'fixed'. But it's almost a
    no-brainer, since ultimately there is no fixed... anything.
    Is there? :) So of course, there is no fixed self.

    I'd have to conclude that observation with: so what? :)

    To share my own personal findings, I'd say there are *several*
    different substances that can have effects like psilocybin.
    And they're all slightly different. The point being:
    don't just stop with one. Try 'em all. Collect the whole set. :)

    Unless you're too unstable to handle that.

    If I was to make just one more little point, it might be:
    You can "see beyond your individual consciousness, minimize suffering
    and interpersonal strife, and get a sense of interconnectedness
    and peace" WITHOUT using any of those drugs. But no doubt they can
    help some people, especially if one gets in a rut.

    I think the real trouble with such drug studies is what to use
    for "controls". Because one could use so many different situations
    as possible controls. And I'm not sure they're fully realizing this.

    Hints:
    Think Woodstock, minus the drugs.
    Think Burning Man, minus the drugs.
    Think two-weeks canoeing in the Canadian wilderness, w/ no drugs.
    Think attending a week-long Castaneda workshop, no drugs required.
    Think 12-hour sensory deprivation experience with dolphins.
    (Okay, I'm just making shit up now...)
    And of course, as Slider might say, think extensive LD experiences.
    etc.

    If you insist, you could do any or all of those "in conjunction with" meditation training, or not.

    The point is that yes, powerful drugs can work well to shake things
    up and give you a real attitude adjustment on life, but... so can
    many other things. In fact, LOTS of other things. Including immersive experiences related to music, poetry, literature, art, nature, etc.

    And why do they always have to associate these experiences with
    religious people and gurus? It certainly does not have to be.
    Why don't they try having people encounter these more unusual
    aspects of being OUTSIDE of any 'religious' perspectives?

    Maybe we are just prone to treating any such 'meaningful' experiences
    as 'religious' in nature. But I don't consider that absolutely
    necessary.

    I also keep returning to the importance of unconscious functions,
    many of which CONTINUE even while one is conscious, indeed, they
    are occurring ALL the time. I think it could be beneficial to
    give people an entire COURSE on the subject of their own
    "unconsciousness". :) It's just as important as consciousness.
    Evolutionarily, anything beyond "rudimentary" consciousness
    may well be "the new kid on the block".

    Unconscious functions and the BODY itself are perhaps the most
    neglected aspects whenever we talk about our "selves".

    I think it's an unnecessary gimmick to refer to consciousness
    as 'hallucination'. It's also an unnecessary gimmick to even
    imply that our 'stories' DON'T begin with our conception and
    end with our deaths. Because 'dust in the wind' isn't really much
    of a "personal story". And our feelings and perceptions of
    universal connection are still happening *within* our own
    individual beings.

    And anyone who has thought even a little bit deeply about 'reality'
    is already well aware that we are in fact NOT 'directly conscious'
    of *numerous* aspects of reality. This is true above and beyond our
    own unconscious functions. Are you directly conscious of protons?
    The full range of the electromagnetic spectrum. etc. Of course not.

    I think it's equally important to realize that a "shifted sense of
    self" is no more "THE self" than is your ordinary sense of self.
    That's the part many people tend to miss. No self can ever be
    'fixed' or 'complete', simply because... nothing is.

    “We do not ‘come into’ this world; we come out of it,
    as leaves from a tree.”

    That's one of the few quotes I really love by Alan Watts.
    I'm sure he thought it was really clever when he came up with it. :)

    And yeah, I kept pointing to the importance of the default mode
    network over and over. I've posted at least 2 or 3 articles here
    before on it. I think it's vital in an understanding of consciousness.

    I also think the default mode network is NOT the whole of our
    normal sense of consciousness; I think it's merely ONE major
    important aspect of it. It is kind of like a basic "monitoring program"
    always running, monitoring everything we consider to be normal aspects
    of "ourselves". But any time anything really out of the ordinary
    happens, such happenings are instantly farmed out to the attentional
    networks of the brain, and later any 'new developments' get fed back
    into the "default mode".

    In other words, I think that any insights one has in novel
    experiences eventually can BECOME part of of the default mode.
    The personal Unknown gradually becomes the personal Known.
    I think this happens NATURALLY, any time anything unusual happens.
    It doesn't have to be drugs, or meditation or religion.
    It could happen if a cop runs into the room and fires a gun. :)

    Nor do think it is necessarily just an "inhibiting" influence,
    nor even entirely "a narrative". It is more like just 'a monitor'.
    A monitor of ... "who am I now?" And no, that isn't ever fixed;
    it's always changing (although for people with boring lives it may
    seem it doesn't). It's a little like "the construct" in the
    Matrix, ready to 'load in'... anything that might happen
    to eventually incorporate it into... "the conceptual self". :)

    But don't forget: one's conceptual self includes the physical self,
    and vice-versa. A big aspect they are kind of neglecting here.

    TONS of different kinds of experiences can "jolt" people out of a
    cognitive rut. I'd be more than fine though if they made psilocybin
    and half-a-dozen other good chemicals legal...

    Ironically, in *reverse* of the way this article puts it,
    it's also true that things like "Travel, Dance, Nature Immersion,
    a Love Affair, or other cultures" could create an openness that
    makes a person want to have a psilocybin experience. :)

    See what I did there? :)

    And of course, permanently 'dissolving' the ego doesn't happen.
    It would be bad if it did. We use our 'egos' (so to speak,
    it's just a cognitive model after all) to function in the world.
    And we INCORPORATE 'alternative states' into our egos as they occur
    (to some extent) naturally.

    But "we" are not merely "our imaginations", either. Again, we are
    also PHYSICAL beings. Go without food for 2 months if you doubt this,
    and find out what it does to your "sense of self". Or, if you want
    to do it more quickly, just seriously try not breathing for 10 minutes.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Monday, July 02, 2018 19:05:35
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    You posted the article. Do you really think it was all vanity
    and/or lies? If so, why post it?

    Now, I'd quibble with the title of the thread, which claimed
    'the self' is 'an illusion'. That part was a little dishonest
    since they only made the point that any 'fixed self' is illusory.
    But since I never believed I had a 'fixed self' to begin with,
    and since they didn't bother to even define 'self', it was all
    pretty loose.

    I say 'the self' is everything an individual life form IS
    in a given moment (thus it is never a precise or fixed entity).
    For an organic animal on planet earth, that includes some kind
    of a body, which itself includes some kind of brain and/or
    nervous system, and all the functions thereof.

    Speaking of the selves of organic animals on planet earth, there is
    another really cool TV series I've been watching on the Animal
    Planet channel, called 'Jeremy Wades Mighty Rivers'. I recommend
    it, although so far it's pretty sad. It's an investigation of
    the current state of six of the mightiest rivers on earth.

    Online episodes: https://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/jeremy-wades-mighty-rivers/

    Back to the non-fixed selves of entities that live on earth...

    For example, if a particular self, let's say a male dog, happens
    to have one of his legs cut off, then, if it lives, that 'dog self'
    has only 3 legs. If the dog is owned by a wealthy man and somehow
    gets a robotic prosthetic leg to replace his missing one, then
    that 'dog self' has 3 natural legs and one mechanical one. Etc.

    A technical and difficult definition, for a challenging subject.
    Yes, that's sarcasm, and yet I am serious about the definition,
    although I'm also smiling like a goon. :)

    Let's look at a few implications.

    By my definition, a 'self' is not the same thing as 'consciousness'.
    Nor is it an 'ego'. A self may (and probably will) have experiences
    of consciousness. It may also (and probably will) have experiences
    of unconsciousness. It may (and probably will) have some kind of
    "ego" (a sense of its own identity and importance, albeit perhaps
    merely a 'survival instinct', and some sort of ability to do
    'reality-testing' to determine its own 'status'). Note also,
    how the 'ego' of a given 'self' could seem solid or well-positioned
    at certain moments, or could seem to weaken or 'dissolve' at
    other moments, and yet if it's alive that self is still a self.

    Okay, that's enough implications; it's time for dinner, i.e. it's
    time to feed several selves (3 human selves and 2 cat selves). :)

    If Freud or Chalmers call, tell them my self is eating right now.
    I'm planning to watch another episode of that show while I do.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 03:49:41
    From: slider@anashram.com

    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 03:05:35 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    You posted the article. Do you really think it was all vanity
    and/or lies? If so, why post it?

    ### - yeah yeah, blah blah blah; it's YOU who are all vanity & lies mate!

    but then you always were a bit 'slow' on the uptake hehehe :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 19:30:13
    From: slider@anashram.com

    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 18:38:21 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 7:49:43 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 03:05:35 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    You posted the article. Do you really think it was all vanity
    and/or lies? If so, why post it?

    ### - yeah yeah, blah blah blah; it's YOU who are all vanity & lies
    mate!

    but then you always were a bit 'slow' on the uptake hehehe :)

    But I *agreed* with most of that article. :)
    Then extended the concepts considerably.

    ### - what on earth makes you think am at all interested in what 'you'
    think??

    lol about, well, anything really now!?

    i.e., in order to make me out to be misleading vinny in some way for
    'some' reason, you deliberately distorted the facts presented, speaking in
    an authoritative & convincing manner to skew/twist reality to suit your
    own rather personal/deceitful ends?

    you could have, for example, instead just picked up on the part of it i'd pasted/posted that mentioned 'used', but, + obviously hoping only to make mischief, deliberately chose to ignore that (and on several devices too,
    so well-beyond chance...) just in order to 'find-fault' with it? to pick a fight over it??

    (lol, so have you got it in-for-me or what?? LOL; infamy! infamy! they've
    all got it in for me? haha!) :)))

    i mean why? - are you an amazon-groupy maybe? you're standin' up for
    'amazon' now??

    that, no matter then even IF something IS correct; you'd deliberately
    distort reality for your own nefarious ends & grudging means???

    something (a practice) i thought you adamantly + openly
    'abhorred/despised' in others, yet have no hesitation/compunction
    whatsoever to immediately stoop to yourself just about whenever it suits
    you, merely 'coz you don't 'like' that person??

    whatever happened to the voice of (true) reason?:

    "I agree that there's a line between protesting/not swallowing
    bullshit on the one hand and outright harassing the people you
    disagree with on the other. It's unethical and is not a good
    strategy for winning either." --jeremy 27th june last

    perforce methinks you're disingenuous sir!

    and as such; your 'opinion' is seriously: in-doubt!

    particularly towards those you just don't happen to like?! (prolly
    everyone hah)

    so not exactly an 'objective' witness/observer then either??

    biased, full of prunes, AND with a fuckin' axe to grind to boot???

    geeze...no! thanks!

    just get back to me when you no longer NEED to lie!

    which thankfully, will be never... :)

    (you shat on your own doorstep! how can ya possibly go home now??)

    plus; a rolling stone gathers no moss?

    (grinz/winks...)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 11:35:08
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    Jeroncho:
    "I'd say there are *several* different substances that can have
    effects like psilocybin. And they're all slightly different.
    The point being: don't just stop with one. Try 'em all.
    Collect the whole set. :) "

    LSD and magic mushrooms could heal damaged brain cells in people
    suffering from depression, study shows

    Psychedelics could be 'next generation' of safer treatments
    for mental health

    Alex Matthews-King
    12 June 2018

    http://tinyurl.com/yatc4atl

    Quotes:

    Psychedelic drugs like LSD and ecstasy ingredient MDMA have been shown to stimulate the growth of new branches and connections between brain cells which could help address conditions like depression and addiction.

    Researchers in California have demonstrated these substances, banned as illicit
    drugs in many countries, are capable of rewiring parts of the brain in a way that lasts well beyond the drugs' effects.

    This means psychedelics could be the "next generation" of treatments for mental
    health disorders which could be more effective and safer than existing options,
    the study's authors from the University of California.

    In previous studies by the same team, a single dose of DMT, the key ingredient in ayahuasca medicinal brews of Amazonian tribes, has been shown to help rats overcome a fear of electric shock meant to emulate post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

    Now they have shown this dose increases the number of branch-like dendrites sprouting from nerve cells in the rat's brain.

    These dendrites end at synapses where their electrical impulses are passed on to other nerve cells and underpin all brain activity. But they can atrophy and draw back in people with mental health conditions.

    “One of the hallmarks of depression is that the neurites in the prefrontal cortex – a key brain region that regulates emotion, mood, and anxiety – those neurites tend to shrivel up,” says Dr David Olson, who lead the research team.

    These brain changes also appear in cases of anxiety, addiction, and post-traumatic stress disorder and stimulating them to reconnect could help to address this.

    The research, published in the journal Cell Reports today, looked at drugs in several classes including tryptamines, DMT and magic mushrooms; amphetamines, including MDMA; and ergolines, like LSD.

    In tests on human brain cells in the lab, flies and rats, it found these substances consistently boosted brain connections.

    Dr Olson compared the effects to ketamine, another illicit drug which represents one of the most important new treatments for depression in a generation, and found many psychedelics have equal or greater effects.

    A ketamine nasal spray is being fast-tracked through clinical trials after it was shown to rapidly relieve major depression and suicidal thoughts in people who cannot be helped by other treatments.

    However its use has to be weighed against its potential for abuse, and its ability to cause a form of drug-induced psychosis.

    “The rapid effects of ketamine on mood and plasticity are truly astounding,” said Dr Olson. “The big question we were trying to answer was whether or not other compounds are capable of doing what ketamine does.”

    “People have long assumed that psychedelics are capable of altering neuronal structure, but this is the first study that clearly and unambiguously supports that hypothesis."

    The fact that many of these drugs seem to mimic the groundbreaking benefits of ketamine opens up an array of new treatment options, which may be less open to abuse, if these drugs can make it to clinical trials.

    Dr Olson said: “Ketamine is no longer our only option. Our work demonstrates that there are a number of distinct chemical scaffolds capable of promoting plasticity like ketamine, providing additional opportunities for medicinal chemists to develop
    safer and more effective alternatives.”

    ***

    Takeaway:

    “People have long assumed that psychedelics are capable of altering neuronal structure, but this is the first study that clearly and unambiguously supports that hypothesis."

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to slider on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 10:38:21
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 7:49:43 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 03:05:35 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    You posted the article. Do you really think it was all vanity
    and/or lies? If so, why post it?

    ### - yeah yeah, blah blah blah; it's YOU who are all vanity & lies mate!

    but then you always were a bit 'slow' on the uptake hehehe :)

    But I *agreed* with most of that article. :)
    Then extended the concepts considerably.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to slider on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 12:00:42
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 11:30:15 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 18:38:21 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 7:49:43 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:
    On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 03:05:35 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
    wrote:

    You posted the article. Do you really think it was all vanity
    and/or lies? If so, why post it?

    ### - yeah yeah, blah blah blah; it's YOU who are all vanity & lies
    mate!

    but then you always were a bit 'slow' on the uptake hehehe :)

    But I *agreed* with most of that article. :)
    Then extended the concepts considerably.

    ### - what on earth makes you think am at all interested in what 'you' think??

    lol about, well, anything really now!?

    i.e., in order to make me out to be misleading vinny in some way for
    'some' reason, you deliberately distorted the facts presented, speaking in
    an authoritative & convincing manner to skew/twist reality to suit your
    own rather personal/deceitful ends?

    you could have, for example, instead just picked up on the part of it i'd pasted/posted that mentioned 'used', but, + obviously hoping only to make mischief, deliberately chose to ignore that (and on several devices too,
    so well-beyond chance...) just in order to 'find-fault' with it? to pick a fight over it??

    (lol, so have you got it in-for-me or what?? LOL; infamy! infamy! they've
    all got it in for me? haha!) :)))

    i mean why? - are you an amazon-groupy maybe? you're standin' up for
    'amazon' now??

    that, no matter then even IF something IS correct; you'd deliberately
    distort reality for your own nefarious ends & grudging means???

    something (a practice) i thought you adamantly + openly
    'abhorred/despised' in others, yet have no hesitation/compunction
    whatsoever to immediately stoop to yourself just about whenever it suits
    you, merely 'coz you don't 'like' that person??

    whatever happened to the voice of (true) reason?:

    "I agree that there's a line between protesting/not swallowing
    bullshit on the one hand and outright harassing the people you
    disagree with on the other. It's unethical and is not a good
    strategy for winning either." --jeremy 27th june last

    perforce methinks you're disingenuous sir!

    and as such; your 'opinion' is seriously: in-doubt!

    particularly towards those you just don't happen to like?! (prolly
    everyone hah)

    so not exactly an 'objective' witness/observer then either??

    biased, full of prunes, AND with a fuckin' axe to grind to boot???

    geeze...no! thanks!

    just get back to me when you no longer NEED to lie!

    which thankfully, will be never... :)

    (you shat on your own doorstep! how can ya possibly go home now??)

    plus; a rolling stone gathers no moss?

    (grinz/winks...)

    Perforce methinks a giant buttload of whining and complaining? :)

    Here, how about an entertaining video on Trump to cheer you up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCPZrOkZx0&t=1s

    Really, it's very good and I genuinely recommend it.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From fuckowski@1:229/2 to All on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 14:12:01
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    Here, how about an entertaining video on Trump to cheer you up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCPZrOkZx0&t=1s

    Really, it's very good and I genuinely recommend it.

    slightly entertaining, ok.
    aren't we getting tired even talking about
    the trumphead? there must be something
    else america can focus on .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 22:48:39
    From: slider@anashram.org

    mr chips says...

    Here, how about an entertaining video on Trump to cheer you up:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCPZrOkZx0&t=1s

    Really, it's very good and I genuinely recommend it.

    slightly entertaining, ok.
    aren't we getting tired even talking about
    the trumphead? there must be something
    else america can focus on .

    ### - oh nooo now you've really gawn an' dun it ahahaha! :):):)

    you rattled his cage?? 'coz what follows 'next' (laffing...) is at least
    3-days of 'flagellating' explanations as to just WHY and HOW sooo VERY important it IS to BE: 'trump-aware' on a daily basis?!? (prolly bounce
    off like last time tho' no worries heh, i think/hope hehehe...)

    (town alert sounds: whooop!-whoooop!...) 4 minute warning peeps! WADERS:
    ON! umbrella's: UP!

    there's SHIT-storm a-coming! :))))))

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 22:14:15
    From: slider@anashram.com

    Really, it's very good and I genuinely recommend it.

    ### - trump??

    riiiiiight... :D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to fuckowski on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 18:10:08
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 2:12:02 PM UTC-7, fuckowski wrote:
    Here, how about an entertaining video on Trump to cheer you up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCPZrOkZx0&t=1s

    Really, it's very good and I genuinely recommend it.

    slightly entertaining, ok.
    aren't we getting tired even talking about
    the trumphead? there must be something
    else america can focus on .

    Okay... like what? Do you have anything you'd like to focus on?
    You didn't mention anything.

    In this one thread so far I focused on the effects of multiple
    psychedelics, possible flaws in controls for such experiments,
    analogous experiences possibly having effects like psychedelics,
    the nature of the self, and the condition of six major rivers.

    That wasn't enough? :) Then go ahead, you take a turn.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 08:32:17
    From: slider@anashram.com

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 02:10:08 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    Okay... like what? Do you have anything you'd like to focus on?

    ### - (slider wearing his rubber waders...) hey anything would do!
    anything *without* any 'T' in it for example? got it!

    anything! - geez ANYTHING! - anything at all ffs! - ahahaha! :)))

    even global fuckin' warming would be a welcome respite after nearly
    2-years of brainwashing?? lol

    and because the 'last' thing ANYONE SANE WANTS is to have the remaining
    spaces in their head filled up with endless trivial details of THAT
    fucker's daily doings???

    some hope though huh! lol :)

    imagine there's no trumpy
    it isn't hard to do...
    if we can fuckin' do it
    then why the hell can't youuu...

    hahaha :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From fuckowski@1:229/2 to All on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 13:26:09
    From: allreadydun@gmail.com

    well no one could pay me to do the dose that
    i did again. Sorry folks, man has to know
    his limit. But i'm glad i got out that far.
    Now i just have a nice normal boring life that
    i can control.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to fuckowski on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 12:27:32
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-7, fuckowski wrote:
    ### - heh, apparently we are merely the 'imagination' of ourselves :)

    i gotta say my own experience back in July of 1970 still ranks
    as the number one experience of all time in my life. Nothing
    comes close. Of course i took way too much. Never never again.

    Since you haven't come back with anything, and Slider's just making
    more "noise" as usual, how about we talk more about what you said
    earlier in this thread?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ6PeVnzCk

    Taking "way too much" of something can indeed be challenging.

    What would you say were the most profound experiences you had
    when you did that? And why would you not consider taking more
    reasonable doses of psychedelics, if that's what you meant when
    you said "never again"?

    The latest evidence appears to show that certain psychedelics
    can even REGROW previously "stunted" neurons. That's pretty cool.

    ***

    Actually, I had an experience of "taking too much" of something
    just about 5 or 6 days ago. Maybe not "way too much", but more
    than I probably should have.

    My partner returned from a trip to Seattle, with a little gift
    for me of these little blue-raspberry THC candies she and her
    sister had tried (marijuana's now legal all up and down the
    entire West Coast). There were 10 candies in the package, each
    containing 10 mg of THC, and they'd eaten one each, so there
    were 8 left in the package, and she said they got a nice mild
    high.

    I didn't think 10 mg. was enough since I usually do 20-25 mg
    of an edible. So I woke up one fine morning last week and ate a
    couple of those candies and then went out for a walk around the
    our beautiful neighborhood.

    "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood"... (Last weekend
    we went and saw the new documentary on Mr. Rogers in the theatre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhwktRDG_aQ )

    I had a nice walk and started getting a bit high, but by the time
    I came back from my walk 45 minutes later I still felt like that
    high was kind of... mild, so I ate another piece of the candy.

    After messing around on the computer for about 30 minutes I was
    indeed feeling higher, but still not... overly so, so I decided to
    'quit messing around' and ate TWO more pieces.

    So now I'd eaten 5 pieces, ~50 mg. of THC - about twice
    the amount I'd usually take, and 5 times the 'recommended' dose.

    I finally started... really trippin', while getting into some music. :)

    Shortly after... I discovered that unbeknownst to me, my partner
    had been feeling weird that morning, and she had not gone to work.
    She had in fact gone back to bed when I had gone out for my walk,
    and I hadn't known because this was the first time she hadn't
    gone to work when scheduled in like... forever. I eventually
    walked upstairs and found that she was still there in our bedroom
    when I had thought she was long gone to work (her car stays in
    our closed garage and so I didn't see it was still there either).

    Then it turned out she was having sort of a rare existential crisis
    and even feeling unappreciated and put upon at work (which almost
    never happens - she's like... steady as a rock), and when I asked her
    what was going on she wanted to have a deep talk about the nature of
    our lives and like - I kid you not - consciousness and the universe
    and the possible pointlessness of it all and... well, everything. :)

    Right about then most of the THC finally kicked in and I'm *flyin'* -
    and thinking wow, what weird timing, but I'm game and doing my
    best to listen carefully to everything she says and to respond
    meaningfully. But I'm thinking... lordy - hope I can pull this off. :)

    Being really, really high in this situation seemed to have
    advantages and disadvantages. :) I probably would have been
    much better off if I'd only had 3 or 4 of those candies. I'm not
    sure the increased effect is 'linear' if you know what I mean.

    The main advantages were that I was pretty 'sensitive', even a bit
    more 'detached' from 'the ordinary' than I usual am, and was also
    rather creative - able to come up with all sorts of responses.
    Maybe too many...

    The main disadvantages were: that I wasn't particularly adept at
    emotionally connecting with her (Woody Harrelson even once said
    he quit weed because it made him "emotionally unavailable"),
    I had to keep filtering out my weirder ideas which might have
    hijacked the convo, and my short-term memory was getting bad -
    so that after taking a couple of turns in the conversation I'd
    find myself wondering... uh, what were we just talking about? :)

    It was difficult to maintain the concentration needed to keep
    carefully following everything she was concerned with without
    going off on strange lines of thought of my own. I had to
    work hard to focus.

    Yet all-in-all I seemed to be making fairly decent contributions
    to the conversation, and had been regularly pointing out how and
    why we must maintain a good attitude in the face of all of life's
    challenges - you know, giving her a bit of motivational jive,
    and I didn't seem to be losing her or anything. By her demeanor
    it even seemed like I might be helping some.

    Our philosophical conversation went on for about an hour. I would
    not be able to repeat most of the details of what was said.
    Then I finally confessed that she'd been blowing my mind not only
    because of how unexpected the situation was, but also because I'd
    eaten the double or triple dose of THC.

    Things actually got easier after that since she no longer expected
    much support or guidance given my 'flighty' condition. I spent the
    next two hours kind of meditatively cruisin' on the rather profound
    body high that came on with it, and we had a nice relaxed rest of
    the day together at home.

    It was an unusual day. Next time probably 3 or 4 will be plenty.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From slider@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, July 05, 2018 18:28:54
    From: slider@anashram.org

    aren't we getting tired even talking about
    the trumphead? there must be something
    else america can focus on .

    ### - apparently not lol :)))

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From Jeremy H. Donovan@1:229/2 to All on Monday, July 09, 2018 09:31:22
    From: jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com

    I'm an American living in Sweden.
    Here's why I came to embrace the higher taxes.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11380356/swedish-taxes-love

    Good article.

    My son has told me more than once that
    he's strongly considering living in
    Sweden or Norway.

    He even looks like one of 'em. :)

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)
  • From thang ornerythinchus@1:229/2 to jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com on Monday, July 16, 2018 16:03:23
    From: thangolossus@gmail.com

    On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Donovan" <jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com> wrote:


    I'm an American living in Sweden.
    Here's why I came to embrace the higher taxes.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11380356/swedish-taxes-love

    Good article.

    My son has told me more than once that
    he's strongly considering living in
    Sweden or Norway.

    He even looks like one of 'em. :)

    Jerome, your nordic ubermensch is showing. Shame on you.

    So he takes after his mother, so what? :)

    ---
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)