but I also learned that it's effective and often quite necessary
to spend some time focusing on the hypothetical future and
planning for at least the general framework of what you'll need
in advance.
Remember the Boy Scout motto: be prepared. :) Your FOCUS
when preparing is on what you expect to need in the future.
That's different than just "being here now".
There are actually few things one can do in the moment that
do not simultaneously require at least some focus on the
near future and/or the recent past.
For example, playing a song. When a band counts off "1, 2, 3, 4"
before the song, they do that in anticipation of a near-future
moment when they'll all begin playing at the same time.
The singers have to remember the lines in each verse, the players
have to remember the chords, melodies, and beats (past memory)
and they must all anticipate each near-future moment when they'll
all break into the chorus or the middle eight at once (or all
stop playing at once). And they figured all that out and practiced
it in the past, prior to performing it in public. Thus, playing
a song is a flow that requires remembering the past and executing
in the present, while anticipating the near future.
This isn't rocket science. We do not simply go through life only
"being here now". One more example. I might plan to give Vicki's
daughter a birthday gift on her birthday next week. To do that,
I will first give some thought as to whether in the recent past
I've heard her mention anything she wants, and if I recall
anything then I'll plan to make a purchase to have it arrive
in the near future, in time to give it to her next week.
Are you getting it yet? Most things we do are like this.
I could easily create dozens of similar examples.
*Beliefs* like "be here now" sound good until you start thinking
about them realistically. But if that belief is bogus, it doesn't
mean all beliefs are bogus. Most beliefs are natural and logical,
so much so that people often don't even notice them.
.
artistic expression, I'd be the last person to throw it out. But if all
of his book is merely lies as you claim, why not throw it all out?
Is the only possible value of ANY book supposedly just aesthetic?
Then call it the book "art" and don't present its content as fact.
It is presented as religious belief - as "ultimate incontestable truth".
It is presented as "advice for living", not just as "art".
You even offered it as advice. You touted "be here now" to me
(yet turned around hypocritically to attack my PAST beliefs,
when the very reason I'm so knowledgeable regarding 'belief' is
those past struggles).
And btw, it doesn't matter whether musical information is being
consciously recalled or unconsciously engrained, that process -
which may be different for every musician - is still a part of
the past that must be accessed every time the song is played,
and while playing you're also constantly considering what you're
about to play NEXT. You are not simply only "totally immersed
in the moment". Don't even bother claiming that; I've been playing
music myself since I was 8 years old.
have personally only really ever discovered just the ONE 'Truth' jeremy:
that humanity has its head stuck up its arse and as a consequence only
ever sees its own shit (heh) - only that doesn't absolutely have to be
(nor remain) the case indefinitely... (nurse: the culo-expander please!
hah...)
So that's your ONE 'truth'. A derogatory over-generalization reducing
every human endeavor and every human to a generic pack of lies?
That's the ultimate cynicism and the ultimate dismissal of everyone
who ever lived (except yourself of course). Again, it isn't possible
to have a meaningful conversation with someone who professes such
beliefs. First, you say you want "no beliefs" yet here express a
truly diabolical *belief* - one that even arrogantly implies that
somehow you're the only one alive with any real idea of 'truth',
yet to my ears, it's merely unsupported insanity and cynicism.
plus it's not like you're even offering anything better! except maybe
the
eradication/extermination of Art, Poetry & Literature in the process
merely because YOU don't understand it??
and so now ya also wanna BURN the book 'Be Here Now' as well???
feck off! - it's a lovely book! a most unusual book! a beautiful book!
:)
is actually a work of Art!
(you're dumping on Art jeremy! that's how 'wrong/off' you are!)
As you so often do, because you refuse to actually listen, now you're
trying to twist everything I said into something I never said at all.
Maybe all YOUR words ARE lies? :)
In fact, I distinguish between works of art and religious beliefs
and indeed any statements intended to be factual. Because to me,
not all words are lies. Some words are very well-supported by
voluminous real-world evidence. And a work of art, of course,
need not be. I'm fine with artists. Always have been.
I occasionally create works of art myself. You're so desperate
you're building yet another straw man to burn.
And I guess top-posting like that was supposed to show disrespect
and disregard for everything I was trying to explore. You have indeed
once again successfully derailed what could have been a genuinely
interesting discussion on the nature of belief. You might have
heard some ideas you haven't even fully heard before. Yet truly,
disrespect is the usual content of most of your posts anyway,
especially given that by your own admission, they're totally
filled from start to finish with nothing but lies.
How could anyone ever take your posts seriously after that admission?
Trump has already told thousands of lies, and that's exactly why
I refuse to accept him as our country's rightful leader.
Maybe all YOUR words ARE lies? :)
In fact, I distinguish between works of art and religious beliefs
and indeed any statements intended to be factual. Because to me,
not all words are lies. Some words are very well-supported by
voluminous real-world evidence. And a work of art, of course,
need not be. I'm fine with artists. Always have been.
I occasionally create works of art myself. You're so desperate
you're building yet another straw man to burn.
And I guess top-posting like that was supposed to show disrespect
and disregard for everything I was trying to explore. You have indeed
once again successfully derailed what could have been a genuinely
interesting discussion on the nature of belief. You might have
heard some ideas you haven't even fully heard before. Yet truly,
disrespect is the usual content of most of your posts anyway,
especially given that by your own admission, they're totally
filled from start to finish with nothing but lies.
How could anyone ever take your posts seriously after that admission?
Trump has already told thousands of lies, and that's exactly why
I refuse to accept him as our country's rightful leader.
On Thu, 31 May 2018 06:41:29 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:
Look guys... you were both talking about having "no beliefs".
But then you BOTH ended up defending this "be here now" *belief*.
Apparently without noticing any contradiction?
This is one reason I was concerned about beliefs. :)
Many, many people are irrational as hell about their beliefs.
And 'Baba Ram Dass' goes far beyond merely saying "be here now".
His book is full of many, many other beliefs, really wild ones.
Reminder, you were both claiming you wanted "no beliefs", right?
For example, just a few pages into his book, the Baba says:
"energy = love = awareness = light = wisdom = beauty =
truth = purity... It's all the same."
That's not only a basketful of beliefs, it's metaphorical gibberish.
Ram Dass makes claims such as that if "you have left the gravitational
field of time and space" then you can see "karma unfolding" in
such a way in which "this life is only part of a mosaic".
Here he professes his belief in karma and reincarnation.
I will remind you once again, you were wondering what it would be
like to get rid of "beliefs", and yet... just a little later you're
both defending this "be here now" belief from Ram Dass, whose book
is an endless series of metaphysical and religious beliefs. Weird.
Getting "stuck" obsessing on *anything*, including the past, future,
*or present*, isn't great. There are times when it's necessary to
focus on the past, and times when it's good to focus on the future.
For example, if you sit down to create a resume, or write your
autobiography, or balance your checkbook, etc. you'll find it is
necessary to focus on past actions, although you'll perform
the activity itself in the present (again, there is no way
to actually perform an activity other than in the present).
And if you want to take a week-long trip somewhere, unless you
carefully plan a route encompassing everything you want to see
in an efficient way and make all needed reservations, I guarantee
you'll have trouble that could have been avoided by taking time
to focus on planning the future in an orderly fashion. Go ahead,
try always just showing up in the "now" for anything you decide
you want to do, without first focusing on the future long enough
to get reservations, tickets, and/or detailed info about where
you're going, and find out what happens, compared to how it goes
with good planning.
I know what happens because when I was young and foolish I tried
many times to do things spontaneously in the moment - since it was
my natural style. I got turned away from stuff I wanted to do
several times because I hadn't prepared for the future situation.
I'm still a big fan of leaving some space for spontaneous actions,
but I also learned that it's effective and often quite necessary
to spend some time focusing on the hypothetical future and
planning for at least the general framework of what you'll need
in advance.
Remember the Boy Scout motto: be prepared. :) Your FOCUS
when preparing is on what you expect to need in the future.
That's different than just "being here now".
There are actually few things one can do in the moment that
do not simultaneously require at least some focus on the
near future and/or the recent past.
For example, playing a song. When a band counts off "1, 2, 3, 4"
before the song, they do that in anticipation of a near-future
moment when they'll all begin playing at the same time.
The singers have to remember the lines in each verse, the players
have to remember the chords, melodies, and beats (past memory)
and they must all anticipate each near-future moment when they'll
all break into the chorus or the middle eight at once (or all
stop playing at once). And they figured all that out and practiced
it in the past, prior to performing it in public. Thus, playing
a song is a flow that requires remembering the past and executing
in the present, while anticipating the near future.
This isn't rocket science. We do not simply go through life only
"being here now". One more example. I might plan to give Vicki's
daughter a birthday gift on her birthday next week. To do that,
I will first give some thought as to whether in the recent past
I've heard her mention anything she wants, and if I recall
anything then I'll plan to make a purchase to have it arrive
in the near future, in time to give it to her next week.
Are you getting it yet? Most things we do are like this.
I could easily create dozens of similar examples.
*Beliefs* like "be here now" sound good until you start thinking
about them realistically. But if that belief is bogus, it doesn't
mean all beliefs are bogus. Most beliefs are natural and logical,
so much so that people often don't even notice them.
.
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