Hey Russian cocksucker (yeah slider I know it's a fucking bot but this
cunt undoubtedly rocks up every now and then to see who bites):-
Putin got dealt a smack in the mouth this week, right? Flat faced
cunt thought he would get away with killing more people on foreign
territory but he didn't count on Mrs May showing her fangs and then
biting the cunt in what residual testicular mass he has. Now,
practically every developed country in the world is throwing his plug
ugly Russki spy arses out the door, even Comrade Trump in the US has
been forced to play along.
Fucking great big LOL!
And not to mention the fire in the Siberian department store, all
exits block ed off - too bad, too sad. Reminds me of the children shot
down by the Russki BUK over Ukraine, those little kids were trying to
get on with their business and returning from holiday in Europe and
then they were killed, with Russki scum turning over their bodies
looking for loot in the fields and denying civilised people the right
to come and take the bodies (fragments) away for decent burial. Now
it's Russki kids dying in flames. How do you like them apples, cunt
face? Karma perhaps? We have a saying here - God pays debts without money...
I have never met a Russian (and I've met plenty overseas) who I didn't
want to kick in the teeth. They and you are scum. The world hates
you all. You are like a fucking bacterial infection and your time
will come.
Now, fuck off and leave this group alone.
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 6:56:57 PM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote:
Hey Russian cocksucker (yeah slider I know it's a fucking bot but this
cunt undoubtedly rocks up every now and then to see who bites):-
Putin got dealt a smack in the mouth this week, right? Flat faced
cunt thought he would get away with killing more people on foreign
territory but he didn't count on Mrs May showing her fangs and then
biting the cunt in what residual testicular mass he has. Now,
practically every developed country in the world is throwing his plug
ugly Russki spy arses out the door, even Comrade Trump in the US has
been forced to play along.
Fucking great big LOL!
And not to mention the fire in the Siberian department store, all
exits block ed off - too bad, too sad. Reminds me of the children shot
down by the Russki BUK over Ukraine, those little kids were trying to
get on with their business and returning from holiday in Europe and
then they were killed, with Russki scum turning over their bodies
looking for loot in the fields and denying civilised people the right
to come and take the bodies (fragments) away for decent burial. Now
it's Russki kids dying in flames. How do you like them apples, cunt
face? Karma perhaps? We have a saying here - God pays debts without
money...
'God' and 'karma' don't do shit or kids wouldn't die in flames at all.
I have never met a Russian (and I've met plenty overseas) who I didn't
want to kick in the teeth. They and you are scum. The world hates
you all. You are like a fucking bacterial infection and your time
will come.
Your black & white thinking that all Russians 'are scum' is horrible.
It's the kind of ugly racial/ethnic/nationalistic hatred and bias that
human beings don't seem to be able to grow out of or leave behind.
It's that kind of prejudiced thinking and lust for vengeance that
may one day get millions of people nuked out of existence.
The real problem with that poster is just that he supports only >'true-believer' viewpoints on tons of Castaneda bullshit, not that
he's Russian. Indeed, being Russian or taking pro-Russian stances
has nothing to do with a single thing this person ever posts here.
Now, fuck off and leave this group alone.
You first, you hateful fucker. And it's spelled: 'Castaneda'.
Christ, you can't even spell the name of the group's namesake
correctly.
.We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"
wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 6:56:57 PM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote: >> Hey Russian cocksucker (yeah slider I know it's a fucking bot but this
cunt undoubtedly rocks up every now and then to see who bites):-
Putin got dealt a smack in the mouth this week, right? Flat faced
cunt thought he would get away with killing more people on foreign
territory but he didn't count on Mrs May showing her fangs and then
biting the cunt in what residual testicular mass he has. Now,
practically every developed country in the world is throwing his plug
ugly Russki spy arses out the door, even Comrade Trump in the US has
been forced to play along.
Fucking great big LOL!
And not to mention the fire in the Siberian department store, all
exits block ed off - too bad, too sad. Reminds me of the children shot
down by the Russki BUK over Ukraine, those little kids were trying to
get on with their business and returning from holiday in Europe and
then they were killed, with Russki scum turning over their bodies
looking for loot in the fields and denying civilised people the right
to come and take the bodies (fragments) away for decent burial. Now
it's Russki kids dying in flames. How do you like them apples, cunt
face? Karma perhaps? We have a saying here - God pays debts without
money...
'God' and 'karma' don't do shit or kids wouldn't die in flames at all.
I have never met a Russian (and I've met plenty overseas) who I didn't
want to kick in the teeth. They and you are scum. The world hates
you all. You are like a fucking bacterial infection and your time
will come.
Your black & white thinking that all Russians 'are scum' is horrible.
It's the kind of ugly racial/ethnic/nationalistic hatred and bias that >human beings don't seem to be able to grow out of or leave behind.
It's that kind of prejudiced thinking and lust for vengeance that
may one day get millions of people nuked out of existence.
The real problem with that poster is just that he supports only >'true-believer' viewpoints on tons of Castaneda bullshit, not that
he's Russian. Indeed, being Russian or taking pro-Russian stances
has nothing to do with a single thing this person ever posts here.
Now, fuck off and leave this group alone.
You first, you hateful fucker. And it's spelled: 'Castaneda'.
Christ, you can't even spell the name of the group's namesake
correctly.
Listen you wizened old cunt. Listen good. This is USENET, this group
is UNMODERATED
I have so little interest in Castenada/Castaneda that
I don't give a fuck how I spell it
and if it offends you, then
excellent, I try to offend as much as I can :)
And, for a logical thinking, rational atheistic (or are you agnostic
today?)
fool, why are you invoking the name of "Christ" and even
giving it emphasis by loading up the first letter?
Dolt :)
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;
the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
Plato
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:56:23 AM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan"
wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 6:56:57 PM UTC-7, thang ornerythinchus wrote: >> >> Hey Russian cocksucker (yeah slider I know it's a fucking bot but this
cunt undoubtedly rocks up every now and then to see who bites):-
Putin got dealt a smack in the mouth this week, right? Flat faced
cunt thought he would get away with killing more people on foreign
territory but he didn't count on Mrs May showing her fangs and then
biting the cunt in what residual testicular mass he has. Now,
practically every developed country in the world is throwing his plug
ugly Russki spy arses out the door, even Comrade Trump in the US has
been forced to play along.
Fucking great big LOL!
And not to mention the fire in the Siberian department store, all
exits block ed off - too bad, too sad. Reminds me of the children shot >> >> down by the Russki BUK over Ukraine, those little kids were trying to
get on with their business and returning from holiday in Europe and
then they were killed, with Russki scum turning over their bodies
looking for loot in the fields and denying civilised people the right
to come and take the bodies (fragments) away for decent burial. Now
it's Russki kids dying in flames. How do you like them apples, cunt
face? Karma perhaps? We have a saying here - God pays debts without
money...
'God' and 'karma' don't do shit or kids wouldn't die in flames at all.
I have never met a Russian (and I've met plenty overseas) who I didn't
want to kick in the teeth. They and you are scum. The world hates
you all. You are like a fucking bacterial infection and your time
will come.
Your black & white thinking that all Russians 'are scum' is horrible.
It's the kind of ugly racial/ethnic/nationalistic hatred and bias that
human beings don't seem to be able to grow out of or leave behind.
It's that kind of prejudiced thinking and lust for vengeance that
may one day get millions of people nuked out of existence.
The real problem with that poster is just that he supports only
'true-believer' viewpoints on tons of Castaneda bullshit, not that
he's Russian. Indeed, being Russian or taking pro-Russian stances
has nothing to do with a single thing this person ever posts here.
Now, fuck off and leave this group alone.
You first, you hateful fucker. And it's spelled: 'Castaneda'.
Christ, you can't even spell the name of the group's namesake
correctly.
Listen you wizened old cunt. Listen good. This is USENET, this group
is UNMODERATED
"Wise men speak because they have something to say;
fools because they have to say something." - Plato
I always listen good, thang. You ought to try it. :)
When adc was first created as an unmoderated group, I was here.
Do you object to being asked to leave (right after you asked
someone else to)? Or do you object to spelling words correctly?
I have so little interest in Castenada/Castaneda that
I don't give a fuck how I spell it
Exactly. For years now, you've trolled and abused people in a
discussion group with a topic you're not even interested in.
What kind of a person is proud of a thing like that?
and if it offends you, then
excellent, I try to offend as much as I can :)
Yes. You do indeed *try* to offend as much as you can. :)
Precisely.
And, for a logical thinking, rational atheistic (or are you agnostic
today?)
Are you still not bright enough to understand how a person can
be both at once, even after it's been explained to you twice?
fool, why are you invoking the name of "Christ" and even
giving it emphasis by loading up the first letter?
Can you really be unfamiliar with the convention of capitalizing
the first word in a sentence? :) As well as so *goddamned* dumb as
to fail to recognize the common use of religious terms in swearing?
Dolt :)
Dullard! Mouth-breather! Cretin!
Having fun, yet? :) I mean, you seem to literally live for
the chance to have yet another shitty argument with someone...
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;
the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
Plato
Your irrational hatred of all Russians was just illuminated (by your
own words). You didn't like it. Did you consider that a real tragedy?
."If the quark masses,or the basic forces, or the cosmological constant
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a 'same' that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been slowly altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but which
is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol,
but please bear in mind
that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
basically because, i can look back over everything we've ever discussed argued about and/or debated, and my opinion/attitude hasn't actually
changed from day 1?
the only explanation being; that it must be 'you' (and not moi) that's changed!
it's not that i haven't learned anything from you, far from it, but is
more the case that when ya fight/struggle with someone (anyone!) it's impossible 'not' to become a bit like them in the process? (meaning: it's something that always automatically occurs when 2 peeps interact fairly deeply, especially if/when it's an intense interaction/altercation)
that: the problem with 'fighting dragons' is the risk of one becoming a dragon too!
(but hey maybe not ALL dragons ain't so bad after all? hehehe...) ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFHx8nGsymc
"Just keep me where the light is..."
I find that Slider seems to be going the other way - he is becoming
more resonable and more pleasant to discuss matters and ideas with, as
you undoubtedly have noticed. This due to himself and things which he
knows have impacted him and which are private to him in recent times.
slider wrote:
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
perhaps, maybe, oh sure.
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a 'same'
that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been slowly
altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but which
is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
maybe the eyes opened a little. maybe the heart expanded ?
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol,
vegas odds are 6-5 for sure on this, j/k (i couldn't resist saying so)
but please bear in mind
that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
not always but sometimes.
basically because, i can look back over everything we've ever discussed
argued about and/or debated, and my opinion/attitude hasn't actually
changed from day 1?
well let's hope you have expanded somewhat in how many years here?
the only explanation being; that it must be 'you' (and not moi) that's
changed!
you may have influenced him, he's a tough nut to crack.
it's not that i haven't learned anything from you, far from it, but is
more the case that when ya fight/struggle with someone (anyone!) it's
impossible 'not' to become a bit like them in the process? (meaning: it's
something that always automatically occurs when 2 peeps interact fairly
deeply, especially if/when it's an intense interaction/altercation)
that's a bingo gringo, big 10-4 there good buddy.
that: the problem with 'fighting dragons' is the risk of one becoming a
dragon too!
keep your distance, you start smelling like them.
(but hey maybe not ALL dragons ain't so bad after all? hehehe...) ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFHx8nGsymc
"Just keep me where the light is..."
that song has been getting alot of play lately.
thang muses...
I find that Slider seems to be going the other way - he is becoming
more resonable and more pleasant to discuss matters and ideas with, as
you undoubtedly have noticed. This due to himself and things which he
knows have impacted him and which are private to him in recent times.
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a 'same' >that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been slowly >altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but which
is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol, but please bear in mind >that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
basically because, i can look back over everything we've ever discussed >argued about and/or debated, and my opinion/attitude hasn't actually
changed from day 1?
the only explanation being; that it must be 'you' (and not moi) that's >changed!
it's not that i haven't learned anything from you, far from it, but is
more the case that when ya fight/struggle with someone (anyone!) it's >impossible 'not' to become a bit like them in the process? (meaning: it's >something that always automatically occurs when 2 peeps interact fairly >deeply, especially if/when it's an intense interaction/altercation)
that: the problem with 'fighting dragons' is the risk of one becoming a >dragon too!
(but hey maybe not ALL dragons ain't so bad after all? hehehe...) ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFHx8nGsymc
"Just keep me where the light is..."
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:02:17 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
thang muses...
I find that Slider seems to be going the other way - he is becoming
more resonable and more pleasant to discuss matters and ideas with, as
you undoubtedly have noticed. This due to himself and things which he
knows have impacted him and which are private to him in recent times.
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
Hang on. If I perceive you as changing, then have you not changed? Or
is my sense of you lying to me, deceiving me?
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a
'same'
that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been slowly
altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but which
is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
Nope. Nice try at dissembling but didn't work. You have become more moderate, fact. You have slandered and charged Dave mercilessly in
the not so distant past, accusing him of many terrible things, yet you
now clearly have a better relationship with him (and he with you, but
perhaps he was reactive?). Your treatment of him now is civil. It
wasn't, once. *That's* a change, not a perception.
And I don't necessarily see things you way any more than I have in the
past. I don't agree with your focus on dreaming as a substitute for
living - it isn't and it will not ever be so.
You never mention what
your activities are during the times you are awake and not dreaming,
and you once said that you sleep less and less now, only a handful of
hours, so I assume logically that you are awake more and more, and
therefore have more and more time on your hands.
What do you do with that time? Nary a word from you ever. You know
what I do, I work (until recently at least), I interact with my
extended family, a lot - I read, I pirate movies and watch them, etc
etc. And I am a particularly secretive, private person, yet you know
these things about me.
What about you? What the heck do you *do* during your daily 18 hours
or so of wakefulness?
How can my perception of you change when I know next to nothing about
you, what you do with yourself during the day when you aren't
dreaming, and so on? I barely have a perception of you at all :)
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol, but please bear in
mind
that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
You're right, it does sound like total shit. I mean that in a
constructive way. How can you judge that my perception has changed
when you don't know me or my personality typology?
basically because, i can look back over everything we've ever discussed
argued about and/or debated, and my opinion/attitude hasn't actually
changed from day 1?
Except you haven't. I mean, you haven't just looked back over
everything we've ever discussed. That would take a week. You are
depending on your memory and that will be faulty, as is the memory of
anyone over a protracted period (of years - I've been here since
around 2005 I think).
the only explanation being; that it must be 'you' (and not moi) that's
changed!
Nope. Occam's razor, old fruit. The simplest explanation is
generally the correct explanation. In this case, the simplest
explanation is that you have become a bit more moderate in your
dealings with Dave and also with me - but even that could be because
we have become a bit more moderate in our dealings with you.
Chicken, or egg?
it's not that i haven't learned anything from you, far from it, but is
more the case that when ya fight/struggle with someone (anyone!) it's
impossible 'not' to become a bit like them in the process? (meaning:
it's
something that always automatically occurs when 2 peeps interact fairly
deeply, especially if/when it's an intense interaction/altercation)
Yep, Neitzche said that - if you struggle with monsters, make sure you
don't become one (paraphrased, and probably spelled Neitzsche wrong
too :)
Along with Castaneda/Castenada...
that: the problem with 'fighting dragons' is the risk of one becoming a
dragon too!
Neitszche again. Are you conscious of your plagiarism?
thang wrote...
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:02:17 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
thang muses...
I find that Slider seems to be going the other way - he is becoming
more resonable and more pleasant to discuss matters and ideas with, as >>>> you undoubtedly have noticed. This due to himself and things which he >>>> knows have impacted him and which are private to him in recent times.
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
Hang on. If I perceive you as changing, then have you not changed? Or
is my sense of you lying to me, deceiving me?
### - smile, i really haven't changed, or even toned it down any heh, am >exactly the same as day one on here nearly 20 years ago... what HAS
changed, however, is that you've stopped attacking me wily-nilly and/or
quite so forcefully (you kept-up one such 'barrage' for nigh on a year if
not more for example?? a year! lol), and although you still chuck the >occasional pointed remark in my direction, your 'reactions' to any reply
on my part doesn't seem to set you off as much as before? (true
actually...) - because, you say, *i've* become more reasonable than
before! this, however, isn't the case as am exactly as-reasonable as i've >ever been and 'have' been all along! so much so that i'd very likely
respond to you 'now' as at any time previously on any particular subject, >probably saying/suggesting almost exactly the same things again as before, >albeit perhaps using different metaphors/examples, basically because
that's my style to say/suggest the 'same' things in as many different ways
as possible, which, btw, is quite deliberate and contrived for all the >obvious reasons (e.g., pointing at the 'same' something from as many >'different' angles as possible in order to correctly communicate what am >actually trying to say in the first instance...)
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a
'same'
that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been slowly
altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but which >>> is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
Nope. Nice try at dissembling but didn't work. You have become more
moderate, fact. You have slandered and charged Dave mercilessly in
the not so distant past, accusing him of many terrible things, yet you
now clearly have a better relationship with him (and he with you, but
perhaps he was reactive?). Your treatment of him now is civil. It
wasn't, once. *That's* a change, not a perception.
### - i haven't become 'more' moderate, am the 'same' moderate as i've
always been :)
as proof of this, there are plenty of examples in the archive going back
20 years, where there have been certain individuals that i've had long >interactions with 'without' there ever being even one cross word between
us?? and this basically because 'they' never attacked me! they instead >debated!
i.e., what usually happens, and has happened all along, is that i might >say/suggest something that appears controversial to whatever degree to >several peeps... one or say 2 of them maybe ask a question, i reply with a >clarification, and that's it! they either accept it and/or don't query it
any further, end of... another 1 probes a little deeper because maybe they >have some ideas of their own in in the matter and put them up as >debate/argument, the points are then hammered out 1 by 1 until it resolves
in some way, either by them agreeing, disagreeing outright + stating why, >and/or by agreeing to differ, which again is end-of! ...other's however, >either come out swinging from the outset and/or end-up swinging either >because they outright don't like the idea itself and are immediately >antagonistic, or, when their own feeble counter-argument is defeated (or >suddenly doesn't seem quite so rock solid) and they become enraged because >they're incapable of accepting the outcome and/or where it all appears to
be then leading/pointing to, and rather than allowing things to develop >'that' far they instead deliberately short circuit the whole deal either
by prevarication/deflection (evasion!) and/or by attacking/shooting the >messenger, probably/usually both! (a very crimmy tactic imho :)
i however, will stick to my guns to infinity/the end/come what may... plus
if they really imagine i'll back down merely under duress then they've
gots another thing coming! even to moi standing toe-to-toe with them as
they hurls rocks & stones over the fence between us trying to cause >damage/break a few windows! (not a chance!) my 'agility' being such that i >can usually catch such things before they land and am able to toss 'em
right back over said fence, usually followed by the sound of 'their'
windows being broken instead of mine! (lol) that what THEY attempted to do
to ME suddenly rebounds and does to them what they just tried to do to
moi! (something i feel has a certain kind of justified poetic justice/feel
to it hehehe) upon which THEY then usually go quite mad! (really laffing!)
they give up in the end, or course, albeit maybe after launching another >couple of even more futile attempts than before (i.e., peeps usually
always shoot their best bolt first + what comes after that is never as
well presented nor polished (is thus more ad-hoc) and so doesn't have
quite the same finesse as their first bolt heh, and so is actually even >easier to catch/defeat/toss back; 'they' give me the stone and i merely
toss it back! i don't even have to do any work!)
perforce, some peeps simply cannot just let it go at that? he broke all my >windows waaa! so they feel perfectly justified now in blasting the bastard
at every opportunity! (hardly justified when THEY in fact were the ones
that threw the 'first' stone?? lol) it doesn't matter WHAT i might >say/suggest after that but they're anti to it??
name no names heh, but you (thang) are actually far more reasonable than >jeremy in this regard? (you have your difficulties and/or blind spots so
it's not always easy to construct things in such a manner that you'll be
able to 'read' them in the way they're originally intended, so much time
has to be spent clarifying matters, that 'pun' thing the other day as an >example, whereas dave's more emotional than reasonable, his grasp of
things is quick enough but his emotions always get the better of him thus >making him impulsive/fiery; prove some (any!) point to jeremy and he >literally wants to bash yer face in! - and i don't find much 'logic' in >that?)
And I don't necessarily see things you way any more than I have in the
past. I don't agree with your focus on dreaming as a substitute for
living - it isn't and it will not ever be so.
### - check: not as a 'substitute' for living, but as a complimentary >'addition' to living so as to fill in a few of the blanks! (a third of our >lives is lived entirely 'unconsciously' for christsakes! and it doesn't
HAVE to be!)
You never mention what
your activities are during the times you are awake and not dreaming,
and you once said that you sleep less and less now, only a handful of
hours, so I assume logically that you are awake more and more, and
therefore have more and more time on your hands.
### - have always actually slept very little and/or less than most anyway,
as from quite young i realised a third of our lives is literally spent
doing nada! live 60 years and chances are the average person spends 20 of >those years snoring?? fuck that! have always been quite jealous (if that's >the right description) of those lost years and from quite young quite >deliberately set out to claw back as many years as i could from that >otherwise completely wasted 20!
'lucid' dreaming adds another angle to it altogether though; an alternate >means/way to claw back some of those lost years in terms of although
perhaps being asleep (although via WILDs am distinctly inclined to
challenge that stance...) but NOT unconscious! (i.e., if we have to sleep
8 hours a day then maybe some of those 8 could be spent lucidly dreaming >instead of completely shutting down)
this being more stephen laberge's idea actually, but only because he chose
to specialise in dilds!
add WILDs into that mix, however, and the whole picture changes again! >because WILDs aren't just lucid dreaming while one is asleep! WILDs is
quite consciously entering into an altered state of awareness in the full >awareness of doing so while one is awake! so technically speaking one
ISN'T actually asleep at all! that on 'that' basis 'sleep' as we know it >could even become a thing of the past! (and that's potentially really
quite interesting in evolutionary terms, see? thus: arise homo acutus!)
What do you do with that time? Nary a word from you ever. You know
what I do, I work (until recently at least), I interact with my
extended family, a lot - I read, I pirate movies and watch them, etc
etc. And I am a particularly secretive, private person, yet you know
these things about me.
What about you? What the heck do you *do* during your daily 18 hours
or so of wakefulness?
### - i'll sometimes/often go 36 (or more) hours of waking (no sleep or
WILDs at all!) staying up all night, hanging out (at one point) with
bunches of friends smoking, listening to music, reading, playing chess, >discussing life, the universe & everything... as i write this, for
example, i haven't slept now for going on 25 hours + at some point today >(which is never planned btw) i'll prolly crash, and/or these days go WILD >since i've learned to do this, thus completely confounding any otherwise >normal/usual routines as most peeps generally know and apply them...
they're all gone!
of course, these days my life is far quieter than before and i hardly see >anyone any more, just 2 or 3 friends left and that's it for years now...
(i used to live in squats and community houses when young and there was >always 100's of peeps knocking about all the time from all over the world,
i remember one party for example, that started off pretty slow, a failure
by anyone standards, but which never actually ended? so day by day peeps >would arrive and leave until there was literally 100's of peeps at a party >that had been going on for over a year of more! lol (ahh those were the
days huh?) :)
How can my perception of you change when I know next to nothing about
you, what you do with yourself during the day when you aren't
dreaming, and so on? I barely have a perception of you at all :)
### - jeremy recently commented along very similar lines as it goes heh, >irked, he was, by my express 'lack' of available personal information to >refer to and to chastise me with by return? (laffing...) my reply to him >being along the lines of: if peeps don't ask me something directly about >myself then i've never felt the need to volunteer such information to bore >people with! being self-absorbed as they are no one was ever interested >enough to ask! :)
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol, but please bear in
mind
that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
You're right, it does sound like total shit. I mean that in a
constructive way. How can you judge that my perception has changed
when you don't know me or my personality typology?
### - i haven't changed any, & you don't attack me quite so much or so >pointedly, so 'something' must have changed? so it must be you whether i
know you or not :)
of course, these days my life is far quieter than before and i hardly
see
anyone any more, just 2 or 3 friends left and that's it for years
now...
(i used to live in squats and community houses when young and there
was
always 100's of peeps knocking about all the time from all over the
world,
i remember one party for example, that started off pretty slow, a
failure
by anyone standards, but which never actually ended? so day by day
peeps
would arrive and leave until there was literally 100's of peeps at a
party
that had been going on for over a year of more! lol (ahh those were
the
days huh?) :)
We had magic mushroom parties like that with acid and dope and a
little grog (not much, we were heads not alcos) with people drifting
in and out all the time up in Cairns, far north Queensland, jungle
territory. But that was a lifetime ago. I hardly think of it
nowadays and I've changed so much. I used to hardly eat I did so many
drugs and got up to so much, sex, petty crime, drug dealing you name
it, I did it, aimless young bloke looking for girls and drugs all the
time and fuck everything else. It all changed when I met my (future)
wife of course.
### - ahhh those halcyon days eh? (smiling at the memories, some of them
great...)
The one's I can recall...
plus it was moi who suggested (to you, a natural born outsider) that
you'd
probably only calmed/settled down after meeting someone you liked, you,
quite easily adapting yourself to a completely different regime, being a
piece of cake for someone wild like you who had no real routines of your
own anyway + you not only 'did' that but did it well! (better perhaps
than
most quite likely because everything you set out to achieve was quite
deliberately + consciously applied, and is not something most peeps
never
get to even think about let alone consciously apply! you, however, were
awake to it all simply because you 'had' to be! they didn't!)
I certainly had no routines. Just survival and self gratification. I
had no home and the only shelter was what I could find, no family
worth mentioning. And no matter what your age, an outsider/outcast
has no support from society. So, I conned and fucked their girls,
took what I wanted and never gave a fuck. I never thought of the
future then because I never believed I had a future or even wanted a
future. All that came later.
How can my perception of you change when I know next to nothing about >>>>> you, what you do with yourself during the day when you aren't
dreaming, and so on? I barely have a perception of you at all :)
### - jeremy recently commented along very similar lines as it goes
heh,
irked, he was, by my express 'lack' of available personal information
to
refer to and to chastise me with by return? (laffing...) my reply to
him
being along the lines of: if peeps don't ask me something directly
about
myself then i've never felt the need to volunteer such information to
bore
people with! being self-absorbed as they are no one was ever
interested
enough to ask! :)
If you're being asked about something how can you be "volunteering"
the response? You either provide it or not. "Volunteering" has the
essence of spontaneity about it, unless you are in the military :)
### - a slight misunderstanding perhaps... that if/when people asked i'd
tell, but if they didn't ask i didn't then 'volunteer' any information
beforehand about my activities beyond a point, no one really asked!
(even
so i prolly wouldn't have told about 'everything' i'd gotten up to, but
certainly more than i otherwise did had i been asked)
It wouldn't bore me. The simple question is - have you a family or
ever had a family (your own that is, obviously you have had a ma and
pa). Yes or no. Dave has, I have, Chris has - what about you? It
would round out my impression of you and I still know practically
nothing about you even with that information. I guarantee I will not
use it against you, no matter the provocation :)
### - no family now to speak of, parents dead (all 3 of 'em lol) a
brother
and 2 sisters still floating around somewhere out there, plus a whole
missing side of my family (on my real father's side, all doctors or
something) that i've never even met! (i know about them but they don't
really know about me, apparently there was quite a few 'scattered seeds'
he was responsible for lol) but we were never a 'close' family even
under
perfect conditions and we all scattered at one point all going off in
different directions one by one just doing our own rather individualist
thing... speak to my brother occasionally and we sometimes (but not
often) exchange cards etc, but that's about all... i left my original
family at age 18 and basically never looked back, i was a cuckoo raised
in
the bosom of an only 50%-related family (although i never knew about
that
until much later; 40 years later!) and have always felt like an outsider
(even from age 4 i was looking/wandering around wondering where am
supposed to fit into all this?? consequently have never 'belonged' as
such, and have only always been just passing-through) prolly directly
because
of that...
That's common with families - and what's a family in any case? Go
back far enough and we're all related. I look at it as spreading the
DNA before we die. Continuation of the species until it evolves into
the next phase.
I left "home" at 16 and never looked back. I never worried about
fitting in because I knew I didn't because what I saw around me wasn't something I wanted to "fit" into. I never gave a fuck about money, posessions, assets, all that shit - but soon after I got married it
all came flooding in. I set my own expectations.
and i know that prolly sounds like total shit lol, but please bear >>>>>> in
mind
that, from a subjective pov, when we ourselves change it
subjectively
usually always seems to be the 'other' person that's changed?
You're right, it does sound like total shit. I mean that in a
constructive way. How can you judge that my perception has changed
when you don't know me or my personality typology?
### - i haven't changed any, & you don't attack me quite so much or so >>>> pointedly, so 'something' must have changed? so it must be you
whether i
know you or not :)
Oh you've changed all right. No question. It's just that you're at
ground zero of your personality and you can't see it because it's been
gradual. You are more mellow, or perhaps it's Alzheimer's kicking in
because you don't get enough sleep ;)
### - my basic view on life (and me living it) hasn't changed, it's
deepened plenty but not changed per se, am still that 4-year old kid
wandering around the streets of london without a leash, never belonging,
never staying too long in any one place/thing, always moving on + trying
new
things till i'd exhausted them (got into collecting old vintage fruit
machines for about 5 years at one point for instance, not the electrical
kind but the purely old mechanical type, some of them now incredibly
valuable, only that 'value' was never a particular concern nor
criterion of
mine for loving/enjoying, repairing & maintaining them, trading in parts
for them, even going to auctions for them etc etc etc, nice hobby!
It's a shame you don't still have them. Not for the value but for the
sheer pleasure of owning such things. I have some great collections, probably the best is a world class collection of fossils from all over
the world, mainly trilobites, ammonites, some reptile fangs and a lot
of megaladon teeth. Militaria and books, whisky, knives (around 300
blades from all over the world), other stuff...the pleasure is in the
owning, the value is secondary.
here's some of the last few (quite valuable) ones from my collection,
the
1st, 2nd & 3rd worth 1000's and still appreciating year on year by
around
10%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHfQPjwmsOI
still nice :)
I jumped too soon. These are yours? If they are, congratulations.
They stink of value. And they're quite beautiful.
basically because, i can look back over everything we've ever
discussed
argued about and/or debated, and my opinion/attitude hasn't actually >>>>>> changed from day 1?
Except you haven't. I mean, you haven't just looked back over
everything we've ever discussed. That would take a week. You are
depending on your memory and that will be faulty, as is the memory of >>>>> anyone over a protracted period (of years - I've been here since
around 2005 I think).
### - when i say i look back and can see i haven't changed, i mean my
philosophical position/stance is the same as from day one here with
only a
few additions, am the same person as before albeit i've grown some...
i.e., i don't need to 'actually' look back at the archives to know
that
my
stance then is the same now, and that i would very likely answer the
same
question again from back then in a very similar vein today...
You've never annunciated your philosophy clearly. I have a worldview
which is pretty jaded, I don't much like my species but there are
examples of great heroism and courage in our species from time to time
and particularly selflessness, which give me hope.
Because of our evolutionary context, survival of the fittest, I don't
think we can help ourselves.
So, in 21 words or less, what *is* your "philosophical
position/stance"?
### - sorry to disappoint you heh, but am an outsider thang so i don't
really have one?
there's no 'philosophy' out here! (and there's yer' 21 words right there
ok? heh)
from where i stand ALL that crap belongs to wallyworld! (religion
too...)
but there's nothing even remotely like that out here?
that's just a bunch of half-crazed peeps running around (in wallyworld)
being all 'philosophical' about everything (as if that actually ever
helped any? riiiight...) ditto the scientists who're just another
bunch/gang of peeps going around being all 'scientific' about everything
instead, like 'that' helps either! (they're actually destroying the
world
with all their crazy shit, only ya can't tell 'em that or they wanna
punch
ya right in the puss for even 'suggesting' such a thing lol! plus no
good
telling 'em to get a life, they already think/imagine they've got one??
riiiight...)
truth is... there IS no philosophy thang! they just 'invented' all that
crap rather than face Reality as it actually... is! we're alive for
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 08:20:17 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
(part 1...)
On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 04:11:26 +0100, thang ornerythinchus
<thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 12:09:32 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.com>
wrote:
thang wrote...
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:02:17 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:
thang muses...
I find that Slider seems to be going the other way - he is becoming >>>>>>> more resonable and more pleasant to discuss matters and ideas with, >>>>>>> as
you undoubtedly have noticed. This due to himself and things which >>>>>>> he
knows have impacted him and which are private to him in recent
times.
### - everyone grows, but what if (smile)... i told you/suggested
that,
it's not actually 'moi' that's changing, that it's your 'perception' >>>>>> of
moi that's gradually changed/evolved instead?
Hang on. If I perceive you as changing, then have you not changed?
Or
is my sense of you lying to me, deceiving me?
### - smile, i really haven't changed, or even toned it down any heh,
am
exactly the same as day one on here nearly 20 years ago... what HAS
changed, however, is that you've stopped attacking me wily-nilly
and/or
quite so forcefully (you kept-up one such 'barrage' for nigh on a year >>>> if
not more for example?? a year! lol), and although you still chuck the
occasional pointed remark in my direction, your 'reactions' to any
reply
on my part doesn't seem to set you off as much as before? (true
actually...) - because, you say, *i've* become more reasonable than
before! this, however, isn't the case as am exactly as-reasonable as
i've
ever been and 'have' been all along! so much so that i'd very likely
respond to you 'now' as at any time previously on any particular
subject,
probably saying/suggesting almost exactly the same things again as
before,
albeit perhaps using different metaphors/examples, basically because
that's my style to say/suggest the 'same' things in as many different
ways
as possible, which, btw, is quite deliberate and contrived for all the >>>> obvious reasons (e.g., pointing at the 'same' something from as many
'different' angles as possible in order to correctly communicate what
am
actually trying to say in the first instance...)
meaning: that i've been more or less exactly the same all along, a >>>>>> 'same'
that you couldn't (or had more difficulty then) previously relating >>>>>> to
before because of something that was in 'you' but which has been
slowly
altering due to your long interaction(s) with me, whereby i now seem >>>>>> to
make more sense (or appear to be more reasonable then) to you, but >>>>>> which
is, in fact, more simply the result of you gradually coming around >>>>>> to
seeing things more my way than you did before ;)
Nope. Nice try at dissembling but didn't work. You have become more >>>>> moderate, fact. You have slandered and charged Dave mercilessly in
the not so distant past, accusing him of many terrible things, yet
you
now clearly have a better relationship with him (and he with you, but >>>>> perhaps he was reactive?). Your treatment of him now is civil. It
wasn't, once. *That's* a change, not a perception.
### - i haven't become 'more' moderate, am the 'same' moderate as i've >>>> always been :)
as proof of this, there are plenty of examples in the archive going
back
20 years, where there have been certain individuals that i've had long >>>> interactions with 'without' there ever being even one cross word
between
us?? and this basically because 'they' never attacked me! they instead >>>> debated!
i.e., what usually happens, and has happened all along, is that i
might
say/suggest something that appears controversial to whatever degree to >>>> several peeps... one or say 2 of them maybe ask a question, i reply
with a
clarification, and that's it! they either accept it and/or don't query >>>> it
any further, end of... another 1 probes a little deeper because maybe
they
have some ideas of their own in in the matter and put them up as
debate/argument, the points are then hammered out 1 by 1 until it
resolves
in some way, either by them agreeing, disagreeing outright + stating
why,
and/or by agreeing to differ, which again is end-of! ...other's
however,
either come out swinging from the outset and/or end-up swinging either >>>> because they outright don't like the idea itself and are immediately
antagonistic, or, when their own feeble counter-argument is defeated
(or
suddenly doesn't seem quite so rock solid) and they become enraged
because
they're incapable of accepting the outcome and/or where it all appears >>>> to
be then leading/pointing to, and rather than allowing things to
develop
'that' far they instead deliberately short circuit the whole deal
either
by prevarication/deflection (evasion!) and/or by attacking/shooting
the
messenger, probably/usually both! (a very crimmy tactic imho :)
i however, will stick to my guns to infinity/the end/come what may...
plus
if they really imagine i'll back down merely under duress then they've >>>> gots another thing coming! even to moi standing toe-to-toe with them
as
they hurls rocks & stones over the fence between us trying to cause
damage/break a few windows! (not a chance!) my 'agility' being such
that i
can usually catch such things before they land and am able to toss 'em >>>> right back over said fence, usually followed by the sound of 'their'
windows being broken instead of mine! (lol) that what THEY attempted
to
do
to ME suddenly rebounds and does to them what they just tried to do to >>>> moi! (something i feel has a certain kind of justified poetic
justice/feel
to it hehehe) upon which THEY then usually go quite mad! (really
laffing!)
they give up in the end, or course, albeit maybe after launching
another
couple of even more futile attempts than before (i.e., peeps usually
always shoot their best bolt first + what comes after that is never as >>>> well presented nor polished (is thus more ad-hoc) and so doesn't have
quite the same finesse as their first bolt heh, and so is actually
even
easier to catch/defeat/toss back; 'they' give me the stone and i
merely
toss it back! i don't even have to do any work!)
perforce, some peeps simply cannot just let it go at that? he broke
all
my
windows waaa! so they feel perfectly justified now in blasting the
bastard
at every opportunity! (hardly justified when THEY in fact were the
ones
that threw the 'first' stone?? lol) it doesn't matter WHAT i might
say/suggest after that but they're anti to it??
name no names heh, but you (thang) are actually far more reasonable
than
jeremy in this regard? (you have your difficulties and/or blind spots
so
it's not always easy to construct things in such a manner that you'll
be
able to 'read' them in the way they're originally intended, so much
time
has to be spent clarifying matters, that 'pun' thing the other day as
an
example, whereas dave's more emotional than reasonable, his grasp of
things is quick enough but his emotions always get the better of him
thus
making him impulsive/fiery; prove some (any!) point to jeremy and he
literally wants to bash yer face in! - and i don't find much 'logic'
in
that?)
And I don't necessarily see things you way any more than I have in
the
past. I don't agree with your focus on dreaming as a substitute for >>>>> living - it isn't and it will not ever be so.
### - check: not as a 'substitute' for living, but as a complimentary
'addition' to living so as to fill in a few of the blanks! (a third of >>>> our
lives is lived entirely 'unconsciously' for christsakes! and it
doesn't
HAVE to be!)
Grammar nazi here - "complementary". The one you used is in the
nature of testimonial.
### - yeah well, but we're not in uni now eh? so no absolute need to dot
every i + cross every T, except perhaps in your case sometimes, as i
know
you exhibit some slight difficulty occasionally when, for example,
quotes/ideas are taken out of context and you now don't know wtf they're
talking about because they didn't 'include' the previous context... i
understand that no problem and thus i don't get irritated at you because
of it (blind spots i've called it...) so no biggie + i think i know
where
you're coming from in that respect -i.e., being the natural outsider you
are you were forced to have to very deliberately learn to 'apply'
language specifically, not only for your own understanding of what's
going
on around you but also to be able to communicate that understanding with
and to others... thus too you pick up very quickly the errors of others
in
that regard 'because' you always notice them so accurately and
acutely...
thus you are forever, quite consciously, always arranging everything in
order to 'make sense' of it, something no one else ever really does nor
bothers with beyond a point, unless perhaps their career just so happens
to also directly call for it as in the academic world for instance where
peeps wont even fucking understand ya at all unless it's presented
completely correctly + accurately to the highest standards + all in the
correct context, format & form, or they just wont hear it! or as in
journalism/writing or whatever... perforce notwithstanding the few
experimental writers (like jack kerouac for instance) who quite
deliberately sought to somehow circumvent that whole mind-numbing,
creative-destroying (he claimed) + cloying process... he even went so
far
as to write a whole book in only 72 hours (on speed/uppers of course
heh)
in one long 72-hour creative burst that contained not even a jot of
punctuation nor even much attempts at grammar, even to having a roll of
typewriting paper specifically made up for him (the only one of its kind
at that time) so he wouldn't have to keep changing the filled papers,
something which, he claimed, continually interrupted his train of
creative
thought hehehe (a brillant solution!)
Not bad Slider, not bad. Fairly close to the mark I must say. In my
prime I wrote for a living and I'm very skilled at it (mainly
technical contexts but with elements of art and humanity sprinkled throughout). I was paid probably in the region of $400/page and the
work needed to flow from the letter (letter of advice) so it had to be maximally persuasive (Goebbels would approve of that phrase). I was generally billed out at 6 minute increments (10ths of an hour) but for letters of advice, a per page rate sufficed (and was more profitable).
It helped to probably be as you say (a) and outsider; and (b) a highly functional position holder on the Aspergers' scale :)
So, I'm pedantic. I had to be for a long time and my old man was
ex-army and instilled both logic and pedanticism into my young
sensibilities. The topping is I don't tolerate fools unless it's
genetic or due to brain damage. However I did condition my advice to
you regarding the two words with a "pardon" so I haven't forgotten my
manners either, which are old school.
Re: outsider, yep, you got me on that. I am and always have been.
Even when I was top of the wozza in the business world I remained an
outsider - I just do not see things the way most do. You look at the
sky and see blue, I look at the sky and see infinite depth behind the illusion of colour. You see solidity, I see vast emptiness peppered
with probabilistic potentialities which never actually accrete into
reality until we look. And measure in the act of looking. You see
life everywhere, I see decay and disorder in the making - I love
visiting graveyards and don't do it enough now, just for the feeling
of mortality and the fact that most of the dead are totally forgotten
and will be for all eternity.
I don't like rules either and don't play by them if I can get away
with it. Any rules, constrained by common decency to my fellow human, providing my fellow human shows me the same common decency - or else
:)
Re: Kerouac, such rampaging creativity is to be admired. HP
Blavatsky, when she was writing Isis Unveiled, wrote around 25 closely written foolscap pages per day, long into the night, without revision.
She too was immensely creative and driven.
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