From: slider@anashram.org

### - there's more?? :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4GQdOQIeg

10 more joining today making now 379 aspiring WILD ones in the WILD &
WILDing FB group!

s'not bad eh! ;)

i.e., sometimes the 'outsiders' (the long-shots) win?

we'll see! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - now if we can just keep the CULT aspect OUT of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWeFJGCIhes

"Come to this house, be one of the comfortable people
we're drinking all night never sleeping...

Now everyone go home and fetch your relations!"

always liked that movie ;)

heh heh heh :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

A few days ago, it occurred to me that what will probably happen
is that WILD gets largely bypassed, since most people will probably
get into Virtual Reality instead, which requires far less effort.

I'd guess that by the time you get 10 thousand people using WILD
seriously, there'll be 10 million or more who are into VR.
And the numbers will likely stay proportional from there.

This will happen mainly because for every 10 people who try WILD,
only 1 or 2 will really become good at it and stick with it,
whereas once VR gets really cool, a large percentage of the
people who try it will keep on doing it.

I'm not saying I think VR is better. That's just my prediction.

VR is still in its infancy, yet on Facebook there are over
20 different VR Groups totalling 7-8 thousand members.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - heh heh heh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4vW7iNAQ54

(this is regarding WILDs btw not moi personally k?)

;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

jeremy prays for the worst/predicts :)

A few days ago, it occurred to me that what will probably happen
is that WILD gets largely bypassed, since most people will probably
get into Virtual Reality instead, which requires far less effort.

I'd guess that by the time you get 10 thousand people using WILD
seriously, there'll be 10 million or more who are into VR.
And the numbers will likely stay proportional from there.

This will happen mainly because for every 10 people who try WILD,
only 1 or 2 will really become good at it and stick with it,
whereas once VR gets really cool, a large percentage of the
people who try it will keep on doing it.

I'm not saying I think VR is better. That's just my prediction.

VR is still in its infancy, yet on Facebook there are over
20 different VR Groups totalling 7-8 thousand members.

### - there's 35,000 in the main lucid dreaming (dild) group currently?
and approximately 135,000 in total spread over a dozen or more groups all having expressed an interest in the subject...

methinks you're too prejudiced to actually think this fully through
correctly?

plus trust you to plumb/vote for the 'artificial' version of reality huh? (grinz...)

but in 'some' ways you're prolly correct, as imho vr IS likely to have
it's day AND even be fairly big! and as such... spearhead/pave the way to better things!

i.e., peeps are lazy by nature (just look at crsds lol, he really can't be bothered to break on through? has spent 'years' learning to dild but just
can't deal with the relative 2 minutes it only takes to learn to WILD
because ya actually have to DO something yourself directly instead of
hanging around jerking-off while waiting for summat to just happen to ya??
plus no offense intended chris, you know for sure it CAN be done, it's
been proven to you several times by now, but can't be bothered to actually
GIVE that to yourself in some kinda sustainable manner and so make pitiful excuses; too bad!) and perforce any kinda 'magic pill' or supplement is
gonna seemingly do better, for a while!

and, as such, even once WILDs rise (in value to peeps) above dilds,
chances are WILDs will indeed likely be lagging behind vr for quite some
time! (i.e., people's whole concept of lucid dreaming is currently still limited to knowing only about dilds, they haven't hardly even heard about
WILDs yet, let alone tried it!)

nevertheless, by the time vr gets big in maybe 10 or 20 years time, the
ability of peeps being 'able' to WILD as being a better option than
dilding will, by then, have also been well proven and have become accepted/established fact as being a totally viable + rather mysterious + unexplored option to our very own awareness paralleling vr! questions WILL
be asked/raised about it! further discoveries WILL be made concerning it!
and imho that's what's more likely gonna win out in the end over anything
more artificial...

iow: compared to WILDing, vr is likely destined to thus only end up in
maybe 50 years time as a rather cheap and cheesy 'imitation' of the real
deal, kids stuff! the real thing being limited only by one's own
imagination and not by what can only be purchased via some limited
commercial 3rd party and plugged in at ever-increasing cost...

so ok, kids are gonna LOVE vr for all the obvious reasons! (ya can have
picnics with santa et al! whoo-hoo!) but adults are more likely to
eventually want something perhaps a little more mature (heh) than all that utterly predictable, script-written... kids stuff? (perforce vr sex will probably be huge at some point? lol!)

the 'love' for vr, however, eventually thus being replaced by the love of
one's OWN unrestricted ability to explore one's OWN imagination to the
fullest at no extra cost whatsoever! + who knows what else as the whole
edifice of lucid dreaming per se is gradually explored and peeled back to reveal possibly more than we ever even imagined about our very own
awareness and/or even other complete available realms of perception, plus
by then peeps will start learning if from they're young ;)

thus a generation (or 2) of vr is prolly inevitable before peeps catch-on
to their OWN ability to go much farther with the whole thing, and with themselves AS they mature! :D

(the main problem with vr initially is/was that it makes peeps feel
nauseous? so they'll have to fix that bit first too innit lol)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

In 50 years, VR will be incredibly
sophisticated. I predict that interest
in it will swamp interest in LD by then.
Time will tell if I'm right.

### - you predict like you actually 'know' something, i merely speculate...

and that's the difference (in intelligence) between us :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com

In 50 years, VR will be incredibly
sophisticated. I predict that interest
in it will swamp interest in LD by then.
Time will tell if I'm right.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: intraphase@gmail.com

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 12:57:22 PM UTC-5, Jeremy H. Denisovan wrote:

A few days ago, it occurred to me that what will probably happen
is that WILD gets largely bypassed, since most people will probably
get into Virtual Reality instead, which requires far less effort.

I'd guess that by the time you get 10 thousand people using WILD
seriously, there'll be 10 million or more who are into VR.
And the numbers will likely stay proportional from there.

This will happen mainly because for every 10 people who try WILD,
only 1 or 2 will really become good at it and stick with it,
whereas once VR gets really cool, a large percentage of the
people who try it will keep on doing it.

I'm not saying I think VR is better. That's just my prediction.

VR is still in its infancy, yet on Facebook there are over
20 different VR Groups totalling 7-8 thousand members.

.

I'm tracking 'Valve' for that reason, a private company that owns 'Steam.'
The next shift will be "immersive" technology; example writing with small
eye wear to aim and mike ears to provide feedback. A simple ring on each
index finger for exacting precise movements. The whole rig on and off in
three seconds.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 03:33:16 -0000, LowRider44M <intraphase@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 12:57:22 PM UTC-5, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:

A few days ago, it occurred to me that what will probably happen
is that WILD gets largely bypassed, since most people will probably
get into Virtual Reality instead, which requires far less effort.

I'd guess that by the time you get 10 thousand people using WILD
seriously, there'll be 10 million or more who are into VR.
And the numbers will likely stay proportional from there.

This will happen mainly because for every 10 people who try WILD,
only 1 or 2 will really become good at it and stick with it,
whereas once VR gets really cool, a large percentage of the
people who try it will keep on doing it.

I'm not saying I think VR is better. That's just my prediction.

VR is still in its infancy, yet on Facebook there are over
20 different VR Groups totalling 7-8 thousand members.

.

I'm tracking 'Valve' for that reason, a private company that owns
'Steam.'
The next shift will be "immersive" technology; example writing with small
eye wear to aim and mike ears to provide feedback. A simple ring on each index finger for exacting precise movements. The whole rig on and off in three seconds.

"...No wonder he saw the saints as strong men, the hermits as artists.
They had the strength to live apart from the world, defiant of all but
God. They were not worms who bowed and groveled, who said yes to every lie
for fear of losing their peace or security. Nor did they fear to live a
totally new life!

However, to live apart from the world was not Rimbaud's desire. He loved
the world as few men have. Wherever he went his imagination preceded him, opening up glorious vistas which of course always turned out to be
mirages. He was concerned only with the unknown. To him the world was not
a dead place reserved for penitent, sorrowful souls who have given up the ghost, but a live, throbbing, mysterious planet, where men, if they but
realise it, may dwell as kings. Christianity had made of it an eye-sore.
And the march of progress was a dead march. About face, then! Resume where
the orient in its splendor left off! Face the sun. Salute the living,
honour the miracle!

He saw that science had become as greater hoax as religion, that
nationalism was a farce, patriotism a fraud, education a form of leprosy,
and that morals were for cannibals. With every piercing shaft he hit the bullseye. No one had keener vision, truer aim than the golden-haired boy
of seventeen with the periwinkle blue eyes. He fires point blank left and right. But he has no sooner laid them low than they stare him in the face again. It is no use firing at clay pigeons, he thinks to himself. No, the
task of demolition demands deadlier weapons. But where is he to get them?
At what arsenal?

It is here that the Devil must have stepped in. Once can imagine the words
he chose... "Keep on this way and you'll land in the bug house. Do you
suppose you can kill the dead? Leave that to me, the dead are my meat.
Besides, you haven't even begun to live. With your talents the world is
yours for the asking. What makes you superior is that you have no heart.
Why linger among these rotting, walking cadavers?" To which Rimbaud must
have said: "D'accord!" (okay!). Proud too, that he had wasted no words,
man of reason that he was. But, unlike Faust who had inspired him, he
forgot to ask the price. Or perhaps he was so impatient that he did not
wait to hear the terms of the bargain. Is it even possible that he was so
naive that he did not suspect there 'was' a bargain? For he was always innocent, even as a lost one."

from: 'The Time of the Assassins' --by Henry Miller

***

### - quote: "He saw that science had become as greater hoax as religion"

BINGO! ;)

(and thus doomed to failure...)

nope, the future of lucid dreaming *isn't*, as 'some' people might hope &
pray, gonna be 'science' (duh as if!) but something in fact far much
better and greater than that!: Our very OWN completely innate + genuine
ability to probe, explore and map - 'the unknown' - at will and on demand!

so ok it might take a while, maybe even 150 years for humanity to grow up
some!

but then who's counting!

;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 7:33:18 PM UTC-8, LowRider44M wrote:

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 12:57:22 PM UTC-5, Jeremy H. Denisovan wrote:

A few days ago, it occurred to me that what will probably happen
is that WILD gets largely bypassed, since most people will probably
get into Virtual Reality instead, which requires far less effort.

I'd guess that by the time you get 10 thousand people using WILD
seriously, there'll be 10 million or more who are into VR.
And the numbers will likely stay proportional from there.

This will happen mainly because for every 10 people who try WILD,
only 1 or 2 will really become good at it and stick with it,
whereas once VR gets really cool, a large percentage of the
people who try it will keep on doing it.

I'm not saying I think VR is better. That's just my prediction.

VR is still in its infancy, yet on Facebook there are over
20 different VR Groups totalling 7-8 thousand members.

.

I'm tracking 'Valve' for that reason, a private company that owns 'Steam.' The next shift will be "immersive" technology; example writing with small
eye wear to aim and mike ears to provide feedback. A simple ring on each index finger for exacting precise movements. The whole rig on and off in three seconds.

Yeah, VR is just barely getting started. It'll be huge, eventually.
So will sex-bots, most likely. There was an amusing Daily Show on
that just recently. Porn will go hand-in-hand with VR, spreading it.

Robots Want Our Jobs... and Our Genitals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IETqsRncsdc

Personally, I have little interest in any of that. I'm much more
into the glories of the natural world. :)

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

5 virtual reality trends to watch out for in 2018
http://tinyurl.com/ybgpvfab

"The entire VR industry is projected to be worth $5.2 billion in 2018,
and $45 billion by 2025 — up from a measly $90 million in 2014."

It will probably grow exponentially very soon.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

You can already get VR systems that work with your phone for
under $40. And like all other electronics, the prices will go down
the more popular they become.

### - "He saw that science had become as greater HOAX as religion" --henry miller

:P

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

You can already get VR systems that work with your phone for
under $40. And like all other electronics, the prices will go down
the more popular they become.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

dances with cults wrote...

Personally, I have little interest in any of that. I'm much more
into the glories of the natural world. :)

### - s'ok, don't worry 'bout it; pretty soon you'll prolly be able to buy
a very realistic 'simulation' of the natural world to jack-in to, perforce
sans all the extinct species 'and' all that plastic in the ocean?

fortunately, for humanity, the vast majority of us are poor and thus wont
be able to 'afford' the latest in vr 'games consoles' to be blinded by and
lied to...

Reality is for the poor! :)

-----------

"He saw that science had become as greater HOAX as religion" --henry miller

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

VR is more... technology than science. ;)

Scientific results could, in the wrong hands, be used to hoax,
like anything else, but that's not what they fundamentally are,
and scientific results are very seldom a 'hoax'. When it does
happen it gets found out and corrected.

That quote you're enamored of (you seem to adore the fallacy of
'argument from authority') has little to do with anything I said.
VR may be overblown. It may even have some damaging effects in
certain ways, just as TV and the internet did. Rightly or wrongly,
VR may indeed become so popular hardly anyone bothers to learn
lucid dreaming. But VR isn't in any valid sense a 'hoax'.
It's real and really works. It's no more a 'hoax' than LD is.

You even misuse the fallacy of argument from authority, Slider.
LOL. Sorry, but I find that hilarious! :) You're not even content
to merely use fallacious reasoning all the time, you even use your
fallacies inappropriately. Sorry, that just fuckin' cracks me up. :)

What I mean is... Miller and Rimbaud were obviously very far from
being authorities on science. :) Below is an example of both the
fallacy and how it gets overturned in the context of a rare
scientific 'hoax'-like situation (sort of, not quite):

"In 1923, leading American zoologist Theophilus Painter declared,
based on poor data and conflicting observations he had made,
that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From the 1920s - 1950s,
this continued to be held based on Painter's authority, despite
subsequent counts totaling the correct number of 23."

That false belief was finally overturned with advanced microscopy,
but it took decades since Painter was indeed regarded as a true
'authority'. Even real authorities can be wrong. But treating
Henry Miller or Rimbaud as 'authorities' on science is way stupid.

Important takeaway, aside from your endless need to bicker with me:
In science, authorities must prove their claims like everyone else.
That's why it's not a 'hoax' that humans normally have 23 chromosomes.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 01:26:38 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

VR isn't in any valid sense a 'hoax'.
It's real and really works. It's no more a 'hoax' than LD is.

### - vr is but a 'simulation'

simulation:
noun: simulation; plural noun: simulations

imitation of a situation or process.

the action of pretending; deception.

iow: hoax :)

Miller and Rimbaud were obviously very far from
being authorities on science.

### - there were authorities on Life & Art. :)

and, as such, eminently placed to comment on the "baubles of science"
(miller's words)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

once a cult always a cult? wrote...

LD is also a simulation. It's just a matter of whether the
simulation you're wide awake in is being generated by your brain
or by a machine, innit?

You're spending much of your life obsessed with simulations. :)

### - what, well lol that's it?! really??

haha ok am done 'playing' with ya's by now, done toying 'coz it's gettin' boring?

you're the one 'obsessed' with simulations! LOL first dilds AND now vr
too!? :D

so i guess it's time to bring up the big guns now then eh? :)

gonna blow ya's right outta the water my very 'ignorant' friend...

(slider eagerly rubs his hands together in anticipation hehehe)

look jeremy, i know you're all 'hung-up' on lucid dreaming? on the pro's &
cons of it all yadda yadda fuckin' yadda; basically coz that's ALL ya
gots!; but lucid dreaming is actually the LEAST of it!

and IF you'd ever done any *real* WILDing (or even reading heh) you'd KNOW
that already?!

that with WILDs: 'lucid dreaming' is actually only ONE available option
among MANY!

i.e., there's the 'midway point' to consider!

and lol ya's don't know fuck-ALL about THAT do ya's! (riiiight...)

obviously FUCK all! :)

and not ONLY the midway point itself as being something new & very
interesting; but also the incredible new sense of total detachment +
'utter confidence' (not to mention a striking ability/mastery) that goes hand-in-hand with it! (mentioned all this in the book? + a dozen times
since?? duh you sooo slow!)

see, all YOU gots IS lucid dreaming to moan about! end of! so ya go round
& round!

but there's more! a whole HEAP more! stuff that's WAY beyond vr to
imitate! lol

stuff have only 'hinted' at! (because i want 'other' peeps to find/nail
the answers and not just take my word for it!)

so it's no GOOD you grilling me for 'details' of said midway point and its resulting 'magnifying' effects upon awareness to endlessly argue back &
forth uselessly about merely intellectually; you'll have to repeat +
experience the results for 'yourself' or it just wont mean shit!

oh, but then that's right innit JEREMY? hah!

you're singularly UNABLE (or rather: disingenuously unwilling) to
peer-review my work/research??

aww shame! in which case YOUR 'opinions' are just that then! they don't
count for SHIT!

empty words!

plus i AGREE dilds ARE boring/limited!

but WILDs are something more! a LOT more!

they reveal a lot more about our awareness than dilds apparently can!

so sorry 'bout that! (not!)

oh and bye-bye btw! :D

(slider formerly salutes as jeremy slowly sinks beneath the waves and
finally completely outta sight with all his dumb shit behind him! hah!)

plus i gots yer vr right here too pally!

an artificially limited 'imitation' of the real deal!? (riiiight...)

so guess what's more likely to win-out in the end then bud?

eventually i mean!

puttin' my money on *Reality* here boss!

:P

-------

"Even on your BEST day you'll never be as smart as me on my WORST day!"
--JD

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

LD is also a simulation. It's just a matter of whether the
simulation you're wide awake in is being generated by your brain
or by a machine, innit?

You're spending much of your life obsessed with simulations. :)

And look, if you want to make bullshit authoritarian claims
about science and religion, at least find some crazy scientist
with weird opinions like that. Yeah, it'll still be the same
logical fallacy - an appeal to authority - where some dude merely
gives an inflammatory opinion without backing it up in any way -
but at least you'll be using the fallacy more correctly. LOL.

Just explain how pairs of statements like these are 'the same thing'
(feel free to quote Henry explaining it for you if you can):

"Humans normally have 23 pairs of chromosomes."
"You shall have no other gods before Yahweh."

"The element Mercury boils at 674.1 degrees Fahrenheit."
"Do not kill anyone Allah has made haraam unless you have the haq"

"At perihelion, it's 1.7 billion miles from the Sun to Uranus."
"One must marry a person only of one's own kind."

etc.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 11:20:11 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:

once a cult always a cult? wrote...

LD is also a simulation. It's just a matter of whether the
simulation you're wide awake in is being generated by your brain
or by a machine, innit?

You're spending much of your life obsessed with simulations. :)

### - what, well lol that's it?! really??

Yeah. Really.

haha ok am done 'playing' with ya's by now, done toying 'coz it's gettin' boring?

you're the one 'obsessed' with simulations! LOL first dilds AND now vr
too!? :D

so i guess it's time to bring up the big guns now then eh? :)

Uh oh. I'm trembling.

gonna blow ya's right outta the water my very 'ignorant' friend...

(slider eagerly rubs his hands together in anticipation hehehe)

Hehehe

look jeremy, i know you're all 'hung-up' on lucid dreaming? on the pro's & cons of it all yadda yadda fuckin' yadda; basically coz that's ALL ya
gots!; but lucid dreaming is actually the LEAST of it!

and IF you'd ever done any *real* WILDing (or even reading heh) you'd KNOW that already?!

that with WILDs: 'lucid dreaming' is actually only ONE available option
among MANY!

i.e., there's the 'midway point' to consider!

and lol ya's don't know fuck-ALL about THAT do ya's! (riiiight...)

obviously FUCK all! :)

We already talked about that once and I even told you I have some
experience with it - but just for kicks, what do you find so damned
interesting about that?

and not ONLY the midway point itself as being something new & very interesting; but also the incredible new sense of total detachment +
'utter confidence' (not to mention a striking ability/mastery) that goes hand-in-hand with it! (mentioned all this in the book? + a dozen times since?? duh you sooo slow!)

A sense of detachment and confidence, eh? Along with some never-quite
revealed "ability"? LOL. Funny, I don't feel 'blown out of the water'.
It feels more like being bullshit by someone becoming increasingly
delusional and grandiose. And I have lots of experience with that. :)
What 'ability' do you believe you're 'mastering', exactly?

see, all YOU gots IS lucid dreaming to moan about! end of! so ya go round
& round!

but there's more! a whole HEAP more! stuff that's WAY beyond vr to
imitate! lol

Yeah, you um... heaped some of it up again, above. :) It sounds
like you're afraid to even say what you believe you're doing
since maybe it would seem crazy to most people. No??

stuff have only 'hinted' at! (because i want 'other' peeps to find/nail
the answers and not just take my word for it!)

I won't take your word for it, believe me. :)
And I guess we're supposed to care about grandiose-sounding 'hints'.
Okay look, you obviously think you've got something cool here,
so I'll suspend judgment and wait.

so it's no GOOD you grilling me for 'details' of said midway point and its resulting 'magnifying' effects upon awareness to endlessly argue back &
forth uselessly about merely intellectually; you'll have to repeat + experience the results for 'yourself' or it just wont mean shit!

Ladies and gentlemen, we are talking to... the world's most aware man.
With new magnified awareness! Dammit, and I said I'd just wait. :)
Back to waiting...

oh, but then that's right innit JEREMY? hah!

you're singularly UNABLE (or rather: disingenuously unwilling) to
peer-review my work/research??

Not 'research' based on 'hints'. :)

aww shame! in which case YOUR 'opinions' are just that then! they don't
count for SHIT!

empty words!

Okay, but I don't think I've said much about your new... powers yet.
LOL. All right, still waiting, boss.

plus i AGREE dilds ARE boring/limited!

but WILDs are something more! a LOT more!

they reveal a lot more about our awareness than dilds apparently can!

Of course they do! (That same old claim again.)
I did experience your precious "midway point" in DILD some, you know.
And I already told you about that long ago.

so sorry 'bout that! (not!)

oh and bye-bye btw! :D

Well you did say "the big guns". :O

Okay, bye bye again, master. But... do you promise?? :)
Pretty please with enhanced awareness on top?? LOL.

(slider formerly salutes as jeremy slowly sinks beneath the waves and
finally completely outta sight with all his dumb shit behind him! hah!)

plus i gots yer vr right here too pally!

Already under $50. And in about 7 years it will be *10 times* bigger.

an artificially limited 'imitation' of the real deal!? (riiiight...)

Correct. Again, I didn't say it's a wonderful situation.
I merely predict that VR will become enormous (while LD won't).
Admittedly, that was a devilish shot that I enjoyed taking. :)
But I actually believe it will happen that way -
because people are lazy.

Careful though, or you may become some effed up 'cult leader'
of 'dream states'. Careful what you wish for, master. :)

so guess what's more likely to win-out in the end then bud?

eventually i mean!

puttin' my money on *Reality* here boss!

:P

Oh! Well... me too, babe. But reality ain't just a fuckin' dream.
Nor is it all about some 'hyper-aware state in between dreams'.
Dreaming is an amazing - and yet still limited - aspect of reality.
A natural virtual reality - and playpen for gurus in training -
where their every wish/belief can seem to be actualized. But isn't.

Sorry. Again, I promise to wait patiently... for your 'research'. :)

Btw, is anybody watching the TV show "The Path", on Hulu?
Great show about a cult, now in its 3rd season. I do recommend.
There are many parallels to things I've experienced in that show.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

some very small fry itsy-bitsy teeny-tiny tyrant wrote... :)

i know you're all 'hung-up' on lucid dreaming? on the pro's &
cons of it all yadda yadda fuckin' yadda; basically coz that's ALL ya
gots!; but lucid dreaming is actually the LEAST of it!

and IF you'd ever done any *real* WILDing (or even reading heh) you'd
KNOW
that already?!

that with WILDs: 'lucid dreaming' is actually only ONE available option
among MANY!

i.e., there's the 'midway point' to consider!

and lol ya's don't know fuck-ALL about THAT do ya's! (riiiight...)

obviously FUCK all! :)

We already talked about that once and I even told you I have some
experience with it - but just for kicks, what do you find so damned interesting about that?

### - you 'claimed' to have had 'some' experience of WILDing: 35 fuckin'
years ago??

riiiight...

well i believe you! (you know moi i believe everything innit! lol:)

and not ONLY the midway point itself as being something new & very
interesting; but also the incredible new sense of total detachment +
'utter confidence' (not to mention a striking ability/mastery) that goes
hand-in-hand with it! (mentioned all this in the book? + a dozen times
since?? duh you sooo slow!)

A sense of detachment and confidence, eh? Along with some never-quite revealed "ability"? LOL. Funny, I don't feel 'blown out of the water'.
It feels more like being bullshit by someone becoming increasingly
delusional and grandiose. And I have lots of experience with that. :)
What 'ability' do you believe you're 'mastering', exactly?

### - you have to ACTUALLY DO IT to know/understand it dummy! :)

i.e., being in more than one place at a time, for example heh, isn't
rational! (isn't logical/doesn't lend itself to rationalisation!) and as
such i could 'describe' it all day long and you STILL wouldn't be ABLE to
get it unless you actually have the appropriate reference points under
your own belt personally to refer to!

you MAY have even experienced a flash of WILDs waaaay back in the distant ancient past 35 fuckin' years ago?! (i personally doubt it coz you can
always only talk-shit about it, but maybe?) at best i reckon the 'closest' you've ever come perhaps being just a few false awakenings, maybe! but obviously NOT enough to have ever done more than experiencing JUST the LD aspects of it alone! if that!

(there's just no point in discussing it until you've personally
experienced it else it just doesn't make any sense! the 'utter confidence'
and the resulting seeming 'mastery' (over oneself) that goes with it HAS
to be experienced first hand to be of any use! - for it to even make any sense!)

and all you can apparently really DO is... talk!?

and well, talk is fairly cheap around here innit! heh!

and i've gots bigger fish to fry! :P

(fyi, said 'remarkable confidence' & 'seeming mastery' requires a
'prolonged' experience in order to surface! maybe even as much as 3 or 4
hours! although some peeps will almost certainly arrive at it far quicker
than moi that's for sure... but it's not something that can be... faked!)

am also actually rather 'glad' you can't do it? i mean, who needs violent
fools like you hanging-out like a ravening shark pissing in the beginners
pool already?? LOL

nah mate, we's leavin' all THAT shit behind! and peeps like you with it!

well behind! :)

Arise Homo-Acutus! (laffing...)

the Warring Sapians have HAD their day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixLm9eSYldE

(hehehe...)

"homo-sapians have outgrown their use..."

:D

------------

"just look at those cavemen go!" --also david bowie

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

### - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THz5x0dS5fc

awesome farewell!

rip bowie...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 7:33:13 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

some very small fry itsy-bitsy teeny-tiny tyrant wrote... :)

Bye bye... Farewell. Parting is such sweet sorrow.. :)

i know you're all 'hung-up' on lucid dreaming? on the pro's &
cons of it all yadda yadda fuckin' yadda; basically coz that's ALL ya
gots!; but lucid dreaming is actually the LEAST of it!

and IF you'd ever done any *real* WILDing (or even reading heh) you'd
KNOW
that already?!

that with WILDs: 'lucid dreaming' is actually only ONE available option
among MANY!

i.e., there's the 'midway point' to consider!

and lol ya's don't know fuck-ALL about THAT do ya's! (riiiight...)

obviously FUCK all! :)

We already talked about that once and I even told you I have some experience with it - but just for kicks, what do you find so damned interesting about that?

### - you 'claimed' to have had 'some' experience of WILDing: 35 fuckin' years ago??

riiiight...

well i believe you! (you know moi i believe everything innit! lol:)

We were talking about "the midway point". Why does it matter how
you initiated LD if you experience the midway point? And I did
that a few times. I even wrote a poem that included reference to it.

and not ONLY the midway point itself as being something new & very
interesting; but also the incredible new sense of total detachment +
'utter confidence' (not to mention a striking ability/mastery) that goes >> hand-in-hand with it! (mentioned all this in the book? + a dozen times
since?? duh you sooo slow!)

A sense of detachment and confidence, eh? Along with some never-quite revealed "ability"? LOL. Funny, I don't feel 'blown out of the water'.
It feels more like being bullshit by someone becoming increasingly delusional and grandiose. And I have lots of experience with that. :)
What 'ability' do you believe you're 'mastering', exactly?

### - you have to ACTUALLY DO IT to know/understand it dummy! :)

i.e., being in more than one place at a time, for example heh, isn't rational! (isn't logical/doesn't lend itself to rationalisation!) and as
such i could 'describe' it all day long and you STILL wouldn't be ABLE to
get it unless you actually have the appropriate reference points under
your own belt personally to refer to!

As I already said once, if "being in more than one place" involves
being in more than three 'places', then I haven't experienced it.
If that is possible, then I still think it would just be confusing.

However, 'the midway point' - as I experienced it - involves being in
'three places at once', and it's not terribly hard to describe them:

1) The perspective of your physical body in bed (your eyes can open)
2) The perspective of your dreaming body in a lucid dream.
3) The midway point where you remain aware of both views at once
(making it seem as if 'the midway point' is yet another perspective)

How hard was that? That's what I thought we were talking about.
And I have done that a few times.

Sometimes while holding that 'mid-perspective' I would 'drift' back
too close to the perspective of my physical body in bed and suddenly
'wake up' again in bed and get up out of bed again only to discover
that I was actually still in my dreaming body. Sometimes I repeated
this cycle a couple of times before waking up for real.

It's also interesting to note that your 'dreaming body' doesn't
have to be 'an actual body' (which makes sense, since it's not a real
body anyway, right?) Anyway, sometimes my 'dreaming position' could be
just a disembodied 'viewpoint', floating in the air (with no body).
The reason for bringing that up is that such a viewpoint is not
unlike the 'disembodied viewpoint' of the 'midway point'.

This makes it tempting to think that the midway point itself might
be something of an illusion, generated just by simultaneously remaining
aware of the dreaming position and the sleeping position. Since we are
used to only seeing from one specific point at a time, to hold onto
two viewpoints at once may be what generates an illusory third point
from which to witness those two points. That's a theory. :)

The 'midway perspective' never seemed to generate any extraordinary
feeling of 'confidence' or 'mastery' for me personally.

If you are somehow going beyond that, to experience 4 or 5
or more 'perspectives' at once, then I've never done that. I'm not
sure what good it would do either since any additional 'perspectives'
would have to merely be more dreaming positions.

But I'm not the master, am I? :)

I've had one other friend in my life at one point who claimed to
be able to assume some sort of "universal viewpoint" on all of life.
His name was Allen Hacker and he founded a free-zone Scientology
spin-off. He believed himself to be an admiral in an inter-galactic
task-force that was assigned the mission of 'freeing the earth'. :)
We were friends for awhile, but I haven't seen him in 20 years.
I ended up thinking he was grandiosely delusional too.

you MAY have even experienced a flash of WILDs waaaay back in the distant ancient past 35 fuckin' years ago?! (i personally doubt it coz you can
always only talk-shit about it, but maybe?) at best i reckon the 'closest' you've ever come perhaps being just a few false awakenings, maybe! but obviously NOT enough to have ever done more than experiencing JUST the LD aspects of it alone! if that!

(there's just no point in discussing it until you've personally
experienced it else it just doesn't make any sense!

Yes, farewell oh great master. Bye Bye. Parting is such sweet sorrow. :)

the 'utter confidence'
and the resulting seeming 'mastery' (over oneself) that goes with it HAS
to be experienced first hand to be of any use! - for it to even make any sense!)

Confidence about what? The mastery of what aspect of oneself?
That all still just sounds vaguely grandiose and self-congratulatory.

and all you can apparently really DO is... talk!?

and well, talk is fairly cheap around here innit! heh!

and i've gots bigger fish to fry! :P

Talk is all one can do in a discussion group of course.

(fyi, said 'remarkable confidence' & 'seeming mastery' requires a
'prolonged' experience in order to surface! maybe even as much as 3 or 4 hours! although some peeps will almost certainly arrive at it far quicker than moi that's for sure... but it's not something that can be... faked!)

am also actually rather 'glad' you can't do it? i mean, who needs violent fools like you hanging-out like a ravening shark pissing in the beginners pool already?? LOL

nah mate, we's leavin' all THAT shit behind! and peeps like you with it!

well behind! :)

Yes. Farewell. Farewell. Talk about "shit" worth leaving behind...
You certainly do leave a lot of shit behind you everywhere you go. :)

Btw, I've glanced at your dreaming group. LOL. So that's homo-acutus??
Most of them are even more confused than you are.

Arise Homo-Acutus! (laffing...)

the Warring Sapians have HAD their day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixLm9eSYldE

(hehehe...)

"homo-sapians have outgrown their use..."

:D

Master thinks he's no longer homo-sapien. That's rich.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - lol so you CAN read then? (riiight...)

ok, so now just prove where *you've* ever said/written
anything like 'this' about a midway point prior to march 2016?

hmm strange, was all a big mystery to you before and now you know
ALL about it?? - so with quotes & refs please...

lest peeps might think you're a plagiarist as well as a liar :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Since this is adc, we might as well see Castaneda's first account
of this 'midway perspective', albeit in a somewhat different context:

***

I felt once more that someone was helping me to sit up. I again saw don Genaro squatting in front of me. He pulled me up by my armpits and helped me walk around. I could not figure out where I was. I had the feeling I was in a dream,
and yet I had a
complete sense of sequential time. I was keenly aware that I had just been with
don Genaro and don Juan in the ramada of don Juan's house.

Don Genaro walked with me; propping me by holding my left armpit. The scenery I
was watching changed constantly. I could not determine, however, the nature of what I was observing. What was in front of my eyes was rather like a feeling or
a mood, and the
center from where all those changes radiated was definitely in my stomach...

I had made that connection not as a thought or a realization, but as a bodily sensation that suddenly became fixed and predominant. The fluctuations around me came from my stomach. I was creating a world; an endless run of feelings and
images. Everything
I knew was there. That in itself was a feeling, not a thought or a conscious assessment. I tried to keep tabs for a moment because of my nearly invincible habit of assessing everything. But at a certain instant my processes of bookkeeping ceased, and a
nameless something enveloped me; feelings and images of every sort.

At one point something in me began again the tabulation, and I noticed that one
image kept on repeating itself; don Juan and don Genaro- who were trying to reach me. The image was fleeting. It passed by me fast. It was something comparable to seeing them
from the window of a fast-moving vehicle. They seemed to be trying to catch me as I went by. The image became clearer and it lasted longer as it kept on recurring.

I consciously realized at one point that I was deliberately isolating it from among a myriad of other images. I sort of breezed through the rest to come to that particular scene.

Finally I was capable of sustaining it by thinking about it. Once I had begun to think, my ordinary processes took over. They were not as defined as in my ordinary activities, but clear enough to know that the scene or feeling I had isolated was that of
don Juan and don Genaro in the ramada of don Juan's house, and they were holding me by the armpits.

I wanted to keep on fleeing through other images and feelings, but they would not let me. I struggled for a moment. I felt bouncy and happy. I knew that I liked both of them, and I also knew then that I was not afraid of them.

I wanted to joke with them but I did not know how, and I kept on laughing and patting them on their shoulders. I had another peculiar awareness. I was certain that I was 'dreaming'. If I focused my eyes on anything, it immediately
became blurry.

Don Juan and don Genaro were talking to me. I could not keep their words straight, and I could not distinguish which of them was talking. Don Juan then turned my body around and pointed to a lump on the ground. Don Genaro pulled me
closer to it and made
me go around it. The lump was a man lying on the ground. He was lying on his stomach with his face turned to his right. They kept on pointing out the man to
me as they spoke. They pulled me and twisted me around him. I could not focus my eyes on him at
all, but finally I had a feeling of quietness and sobriety and I looked at the man.

I had a slow awakening into the realization that the man lying on the ground was me. My realization did not bring any terror or discomfort. I simply accepted it without emotion. At that moment I was not completely asleep, but neither was I completely
awake and in sober consciousness.

I also became more aware of don Juan and don Genarom, and could tell them apart
when they talked to me. Don Juan said that we were going to go to the round power place in the chaparral. As soon as he said it the image of the place popped in my mind. I
saw the dark masses of bushes around it. I turned to my right. Don Juan and don
Genaro were also there. I had a jolt and the feeling that I was afraid of them.
Perhaps because they looked like two menacing shadows. They came closer to me. As soon as I
saw their features my fears vanished. I liked them again.

It was as if I were drunk and did not have a firm grip on anything. They grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me in unison. They ordered me to wake up.
I could hear their voices clearly and separately.

***
I had then a unique moment. I held two images in my mind, two dreams. I felt that something in me was deeply asleep and was waking up and I found myself lying on the floor of the ramada with don Juan and don Genaro shaking me. But I
also was at the power
place and don Juan and don Genaro were still shaking me.

There was one crucial instant in which I was neither in one place nor the other, but I was rather in both places as an observer seeing two scenes at once. I had the incredible sensation that at that instant I could have gone either way. All I had to do
at that moment was to change perspective; and rather than watch either scene from the outside, feel it from the point of view of the subject.
***

There was something very warm about don Juan's house. I preferred that scene.

I next had a terrifying seizure so shocking that my entire ordinary awareness came back to me at once. Don Juan and don Genaro were pouring buckets of water on me. I was in the ramada of don Juan's house.

(Tales Of Power)

***

The part bracketed above is CC's description of 'the midway perspective'.
I could add that I became a bit obsessed with the idea of waking up
inside of a dream with my full physicality. I actually tried to do it
many, many times, but of course I never could.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 11:09:53 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:

### - lol so you CAN read then? (riiight...)

You're the one who can't or doesn't read. Yeah, I mentioned it
not too long ago when we were talking about dreaming.
But I'd first posted something about this around 21 years ago.
I wrote up one of my related experiences and included a poem
about it.

ok, so now just prove where *you've* ever said/written
anything like 'this' about a midway point prior to march 2016?

hmm strange, was all a big mystery to you before and now you know
ALL about it?? - so with quotes & refs please...

lest peeps might think you're a plagiarist as well as a liar :D

You've called me 'a liar' practically every time I've talked
about dreaming - which of course has made you the liar, every time.

.

April 1997: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.dreams.castaneda/6vWFk5dXlHI/9xd5-Lu3E6cJ (first post in the thread)

Here's the last time I'd mentioned it to you, on Feb 2: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.dreams.castaneda/PY7PcUfd0-Y/a9ulIH5PBQAJ

I said:
"You have only described this "being in several places at once"
thing in a vague way. So... how many places are we talking about?
If it's more than 3 (which we've discussed before and which I've had
experience with myself), then it sounds like it might merely be...
confusing. Maybe you could explain why you think it is important?"

We had talked about it at least once before that (as you can see,
even on Feb 2 I was referring to a previous conversation), but I'm
having trouble finding it in this maze of crap, and am not about to
spend my day looking for it. Suffice it to say that I know what
you're talking about (indeed, I've described it in print more
precisely than you have), and I've asked you to clarify what YOU
are talking about a few times now - if it's anything more than
what I already laid out in my previous post.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - lol this is a lot of crap jeremy! :)

a bunch of cc-related stuff written in direct response to cc's vague descriptions of 'physically' being in 2 places at once, and of you trying/attempting/dreaming of doing same, and failing??

there's no 'midway' point in any of that; a tri-perception, which you NOW describe in clear a,b,c, detail like you suddenly know ALL about it and
always did?? duh! (what a joke!:)))

and so ok, you obviously CAN 'intellectually' grasp the concept from my
own descriptions of it, and then cheekily even attempt to describe it more clearly (ya really gots ta laff at the audacity of it innit eh folks?
lol...) but it's NOT from personal experience as you NOW claim LOL :)))

(i.e., you wouldn't, for example, ask such daft fucking questions in the
first instance if you'd 'really' known any of this from 'personal'
experience hehehe...)

and, well, i have to say, that you 'describe' that midway point
(perception) fairly well actually heh, and so all ya gots to do NOW is to personally 'experience' it fully, for yourself, and then you'll be able to answer all your OWN questions instead of fawning/flapping at moi like YOUR confusion is MY confusion??

your 'theory' btw (cracking up laffing!) is also a load of old bollocks
too? for starters: it's 'theory' rather than fact!? (which is what it
'would' be if you'd actually experienced it!)

there IS a tri-perception!

which can be singular (i.e., perceived in/from any one of 3 positions;
awake, midway point or dreaming...)

dual (any dual combination of the three; awake AND dreaming, at the midway point AND dreaming, at the midway point AND awake, and/or as
seen/perceived from any one of those 3 points in combination with any
single other...)

and triple (all 3 at the same time! whilst also somehow aware of all the
other possible single, dual & triple combinations as well! with the added ability to be able flick back & forth between all 3 in any of those combinations at will! i.e., to be able to see/experience all 3 from the
pov of either laying down awake in bed, standing at the midway point
itself, or even from the pov of being in a lucid dream!) which is really
fucked up lol, and impossible to accurately describe as it's more like a feeling (split feelings?) rather than something rational heh...

and which is not something that makes much rational sense; yet makes all
the sense in the world at the time in (and of) the moment! an unfamiliar 'understanding' that can then be extended towards OTHER things and ideas
in a similar fashion! something that then gives rise to a feeling of utter 'confidence' about exactly 'what' you're doing and 'why' and 'how' best to
do it! ALL 'doubt' then vanishes!

'homo acutus' pertains to 'that' awareness expressly, a time in the future
then when mankind perhaps lives & operates from that more
'elevated/expanded' (for want of a better description) perceptual pov!
where peeps 'know' more what they're doing, perceptually speaking, and
why! lucid dreaming being the least of it compared to all that! only one
single option amongst potentially many others from the pov of a perhaps
more liberated perception than is currently the case!

if i'd have been a lot younger when bumping into all this, i might have
had more hope of personally peeling back a few more layers of it, as it is
that work will have to be left to others to commence from where i've left off... something which i think 'will' happen even in-spite of the likes of
vr! that with the sheer commercial resources they have to promote it at
their disposal, vr will, unfortunately, likely streak ahead of the
competition, the cunts will make money again! only, imho, to be caught up
with later by WILDs as further discoveries are made concerning them + when
the 'novelty' of electronic vr wears thin and peeps realise they don't
actually need it to do even greater things with their very own minds & imaginations... (can only be in one place at a time with vr innit;
limited!)

so by all means 'cheer' for vr (the artificial version) if you wish
jeremy, but know now that you're probably, yet again, most likely +
ultimately on the wrong/losing team as per usual...

so usual you go for the cheap version (the ones size fits all version?
heh) the glitzy version, an imitation of the real thing version that
everyone 'already' has in ready reserve but never uses, but which YOU, for
some completely perverted/derailed reasons of your own, HOPE they'll never
use because THAT would suit YOU better than them?? (riiiight...)

basically, imho (and experience) you're just TOO PETTY to be homo acutus material?

even 'seed' material - because you're simply poison! - rotten!

rotten to the core!

and utterly reprobate to boot!

(heh, i think can even perhaps sometimes understand nietzsche's very misconstrued pov re 'some' of those really rotten apples/fruit maybe doing
with a little extra help to push-off outta it in order to give the newbies
(in the beginners pool) a better chance? good job for you am not the violent/hunter type then huh or you'd probably be long gone...)

meanwhile, piss in the beginners pool all ya wants to pal, it seems to
please you but then you (and all of us here) wont be here for very much
longer anyway, so all you're REALLY doing is wanking yourself off in
public! as usual heh...

lol :)))

otherwise, get back to me when you're actually 'capable' of peer-reviewing
my results/work?

which, let's face it, will never be!

you can talk the talk but ya CAN'T walk the walk!

(gud!) :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 10:40:23 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

### - lol this is a lot of crap jeremy! :)

a bunch of cc-related stuff written in direct response to cc's vague descriptions of 'physically' being in 2 places at once, and of you trying/attempting/dreaming of doing same, and failing??

there's no 'midway' point in any of that; a tri-perception, which you NOW describe in clear a,b,c, detail like you suddenly know ALL about it and always did?? duh! (what a joke!:)))

You don't HAVE to try to wake up at the dreaming position.
The tri-perception is there whether you try to do that or not.
(Although it did seem to enhance the sensations of it sometimes
to try to wake up at the dreaming position.)

and so ok, you obviously CAN 'intellectually' grasp the concept from my
own descriptions of it, and then cheekily even attempt to describe it more clearly (ya really gots ta laff at the audacity of it innit eh folks?
lol...) but it's NOT from personal experience as you NOW claim LOL :)))

At some point, you'll need to figure out why you insist on denying
others' personal experience all the time. Why so threatened?
Maybe because then you wouldn't be as 'special'? And because then
you'd have to admit all your endless putdowns of DILD were only
clueless yapping? :)

(i.e., you wouldn't, for example, ask such daft fucking questions in the first instance if you'd 'really' known any of this from 'personal'
experience hehehe...)

I knew what you were talking about the first time you mentioned it,
and if I asked "daft questions" it was just because YOU spoke of it
in a daft way using only "vague hints", as you even admitted.
I experienced the phenomenon many times decades ago (the first time
was over 30 years ago).

If you believe it leads to some "magical place", then maybe
you're the daft one. But good luck with it. I'll admit it's
an interesting phenomenon.

No, the truth is I almost feel sorry for you. I remember vividly
what it was like to truly believe you're one of the 'special ones'
discovering amazing things no one else knows. That's exactly who
I thought I was back in the 1980's when I was doing some of these
same things you're doing now. I even experienced 'the descent of
the spirit' inside lucid dreams. It was a powerful experience
unlike anything else I'd ever encountered, and that caused me
to honestly believe I was one of the "chosen ones".

It's a long way down from there. And you will fall, as I did.
Or you'll die deluded. All available evidence indicates that
lucid dreaming and all of its by-products are just quirks of
an enhanced human capacity for self-reflection.

Bottom line, it's yet another way for humans to be self-important.

and, well, i have to say, that you 'describe' that midway point
(perception) fairly well actually heh, and so all ya gots to do NOW is to personally 'experience' it fully, for yourself, and then you'll be able to answer all your OWN questions instead of fawning/flapping at moi like YOUR confusion is MY confusion??

You want to believe you're 'special'. :) No, it's worse; it's more like
you're DYING to be 'special', to the point that you'll deny others'
experiences just to try remain that way. Geez. Kind of disgusting.

your 'theory' btw (cracking up laffing!) is also a load of old bollocks
too? for starters: it's 'theory' rather than fact!? (which is what it
'would' be if you'd actually experienced it!)

there IS a tri-perception!

Yeah, it is experienced that way - but there might be something to
my theory. Our brains are used to having a "point from which to perceive",
and when confronted with perceiving two perspectives at once, it may
well construct this 'third one' to 'resolve' that situation. The theory
isn't so far-fetched, but I'm not attached to it or anything...

(Actually, a similar theory can explain seeming OOBEs as well.)

which can be singular (i.e., perceived in/from any one of 3 positions;
awake, midway point or dreaming...)

dual (any dual combination of the three; awake AND dreaming, at the midway point AND dreaming, at the midway point AND awake, and/or as
seen/perceived from any one of those 3 points in combination with any
single other...)

and triple (all 3 at the same time! whilst also somehow aware of all the other possible single, dual & triple combinations as well! with the added ability to be able flick back & forth between all 3 in any of those combinations at will! i.e., to be able to see/experience all 3 from the
pov of either laying down awake in bed, standing at the midway point
itself, or even from the pov of being in a lucid dream!) which is really fucked up lol, and impossible to accurately describe as it's more like a feeling (split feelings?) rather than something rational heh...

I don't think it's that weird to perceive it from the pov of being
in a lucid dream, since that's what triggers it to begin with:
being in a lucid dream and becoming aware of your physical self.

What do you mean by 'standing at the midway point'?
Do you mean like being in a dreaming body 'standing in space'
at the midway point. For me, it was always more of a 'disembodied
awareness' seeming to exist in the midway perspective. Why would
you need a dreaming body to 'stand there'? Seems unnecessary.

and which is not something that makes much rational sense; yet makes all
the sense in the world at the time in (and of) the moment! an unfamiliar 'understanding' that can then be extended towards OTHER things and ideas
in a similar fashion! something that then gives rise to a feeling of utter 'confidence' about exactly 'what' you're doing and 'why' and 'how' best to
do it! ALL 'doubt' then vanishes!

LOL. Sounds like you're going overboard with your self-importance.

'homo acutus' pertains to 'that' awareness expressly, a time in the future then when mankind perhaps lives & operates from that more
'elevated/expanded' (for want of a better description) perceptual pov!

There IS a better description: enhanced self-reflection.
(And feelings of self-importance coming from going overboard with it.)

For a while, it sounded like you were going to claim you could be
in *several* places at once, or maybe in ALL places at once.
I had a friend who actually believed he did that. :)

I was getting ready to hit you with different Bowie song: TVC15 :)

"He's quadraphonic, he's a
He's got more channels
So hologramic, oh my TVC one five"

They probably will do that shit with VR... :)

where peeps 'know' more what they're doing, perceptually speaking, and
why! lucid dreaming being the least of it compared to all that! only one single option amongst potentially many others from the pov of a perhaps
more liberated perception than is currently the case!

if i'd have been a lot younger when bumping into all this, i might have
had more hope of personally peeling back a few more layers of it, as it is that work will have to be left to others to commence from where i've left off... something which i think 'will' happen even in-spite of the likes of vr! that with the sheer commercial resources they have to promote it at
their disposal, vr will, unfortunately, likely streak ahead of the competition, the cunts will make money again! only, imho, to be caught up with later by WILDs as further discoveries are made concerning them + when the 'novelty' of electronic vr wears thin and peeps realise they don't actually need it to do even greater things with their very own minds & imaginations... (can only be in one place at a time with vr innit;
limited!)

so by all means 'cheer' for vr (the artificial version) if you wish
jeremy, but know now that you're probably, yet again, most likely + ultimately on the wrong/losing team as per usual...

Do you ever really listen to the person you're talking to? Ever?
I wasn't 'cheering for VR', and I've said that in several ways.

so usual you go for the cheap version (the ones size fits all version?
heh) the glitzy version, an imitation of the real thing version that
everyone 'already' has in ready reserve but never uses, but which YOU, for some completely perverted/derailed reasons of your own, HOPE they'll never use because THAT would suit YOU better than them?? (riiiight...)

basically, imho (and experience) you're just TOO PETTY to be homo acutus material?

OMG, you're so determined to be a complete bonehead. :)

Slider, I know you think that I'm just an IGNORAMUS like you.
But actually I'm an AGNORIMUS! You believe you've learned a lot
using your inferior IGNORAMUS method, but that's because you've
never experienced the power of being an AGNORIMUS! You've never
done dreaming or waking in the utter clarity of an AGNORIMUS.
So of course you don't know what you're talking about...

Just do it! Really DO waking and dreaming as an AGNORIMUS!!
You'll find a world of difference from being an IGNORAMUS.
Which is all you know so far. :)
Get back to me when you finally get it.

even 'seed' material - because you're simply poison! - rotten!

rotten to the core!

and utterly reprobate to boot!

That's because I use the superior method of being an AGNORIMUS!
This is why I'm so far above the likes of you! :)

(heh, i think can even perhaps sometimes understand nietzsche's very misconstrued pov re 'some' of those really rotten apples/fruit maybe doing with a little extra help to push-off outta it in order to give the newbies (in the beginners pool) a better chance? good job for you am not the violent/hunter type then huh or you'd probably be long gone...)

You see how far that special self-importance will take you, master?
Better watch out...

meanwhile, piss in the beginners pool all ya wants to pal, it seems to
please you but then you (and all of us here) wont be here for very much longer anyway, so all you're REALLY doing is wanking yourself off in
public! as usual heh...

lol :)))

otherwise, get back to me when you're actually 'capable' of peer-reviewing
my results/work?

You got my review already and rejected it. Your choice.

which, let's face it, will never be!

you can talk the talk but ya CAN'T walk the walk!

(gud!) :)

I walked your way ages ago. Fell back to earth ages ago too.
It's a long way down. But it's GUD to BE on the earth.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

VR boy wrote...

I walked your way ages ago. Fell back to earth ages ago too.
It's a long way down. But it's GUD to BE on the earth.

### - lol you haven't ever TOUCHED 'earth' YET jeremy! :)

CoS? Castaneda? and now Science?? (duh...)

and even with ALL that FALLING involving SEVERAL descents! you didn't
gain so much as even an IOTA of humility??

(conceited arrogance fucktard much?)

well me & henry have gots your 'science-cult' right here pally!

for instance:

"He saw that science had become as greater HOAX as religion!" --henry
miller

a HOAX! (really can't BE much clearer than THAT!)

innit tho! :P

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - lol if you've got a problem with *miller's* observation then better
take it up with him?

(i never said science was a hoax, i was merely agreeing with him :P )

what 'i' said was that science was the new 'replacement' (for) religion? remember?

i just don't know WHY you always have to tell so many lies + always call
people names??

is it because you're some kinda mental degenerate... fucktard?

:D :D :D

plus do ya KNOW just how many 'volumes' you've written to (and at) me
since stating thang & i aren't worth talking to?

is NOTHING you say for real?

and when pushed: is castaneda & trump ALL you can ever talk about??

(liar disingenuous fucktard much?)

lol you're sooo immature! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 1:27:36 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:

VR boy wrote...

I walked your way ages ago. Fell back to earth ages ago too.
It's a long way down. But it's GUD to BE on the earth.

### - lol you haven't ever TOUCHED 'earth' YET jeremy! :)

CoS? Castaneda? and now Science?? (duh...)

and even with ALL that FALLING involving SEVERAL descents! you didn't
gain so much as even an IOTA of humility??

(conceited arrogance fucktard much?)

well me & henry have gots your 'science-cult' right here pally!

for instance:

"He saw that science had become as greater HOAX as religion!" --henry
miller

a HOAX! (really can't BE much clearer than THAT!)

innit tho! :P

Slider, you continue to display a serious lack of integrity. Like the
Trump or Putin administrations, you continually repeat lies, as if
repeating them enough times will make everyone believe they're true.
Then you've got to do the vulgar name calling on top of that. It's
like you believe you're waging some kind of ugly PR campaign.

We even have a President who behaves that way right now.
It seems unbelievable but it is really happening.

Maybe it works on a lot of people. I guess that's why you do it.
You seem to think that if you say enough times that human-caused
climate change isn't real, or that science is a 'hoax', or that
I've never done WILD or call me 'VR boy', etc. etc. that everyone
will eventually start believing that's all true.

But they're all still just lies. One has to wonder, what in
the hell do you get out of that? :) It's the active suppression of
truth, just like muzzling scientists, just like having a leader
who lies every time he opens his mouth. That's the total opposite
of anything like "homo acutus". It's more like "homo obscurus". :)
Rattle off a few lies, then end your 'PR' blitz by calling your
'opponent' a 'fucktard' - only just before that in print admitting
you might consider killing him. Isn't behavior like that the very
reason for humanity's millennia of warfare?

You do realize you continually lie, don't you?
For example, in another thread on your favorite topic you said:
"unlike jeremy: give to yourself the experience of at least one
single genuine WILD". You've insinuated or repeated that lie
at least 3 or 4 times now.

It's finally occurred to me that I can prove it's a lie.
The same way I did earlier in this thread, just by quoting one
of my old posts from this very group.

.

I originally wrote the following journal entry sometime in 1994,
before adc existed and before you ever came here.

It includes an account of the first time I succeeded at a
clear-cut WILD. The main things to notice are: I did it
using one of Castaneda's methods for WILD and to me it was
just another LD session - there was nothing that special
about it, because by that time I'd been doing LD for about
9 years already and had been fully lucid in dreaming a few
hundred times before.

But I do still remember that particular session well -
because it was the FIRST time I ever succeeded at WILD.
It was indeed a good clear session where the dreaming scene
seemed as vivid as the real world (also not at all unusual),
but in terms of 'clarity of awareness', it didn't seem like
anything particularly spectacular. The only notable thing was
how it was initiated (WILD).

Copied from a post I made to adc nearly 21 years ago.
I'm emphasizing this so it's apparent that this post
originally had absolutely nothing to do with Slider. :)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.dreams.castaneda/OdMsK4RF9Os/3qQGqzmsUS4J

***

After awakening at 2:30 a.m., I was thinking about doing some
recapitulation, but my inner voice said no, so I decided to do
some dreaming instead. I entered into dreaming three times
before morning, and the second time did something I had
never done before, which was to enter dreaming directly
from the waking state, using a blotch of color as a starting
point for dreaming.

The experience wasn't much. After traveling through a "gap"
into the dreaming scene, I found myself walking on city streets,
and becoming interested in a particular apartment building.
Then I was inside the apartment building exploring a particular
apartment, which was meticulously neat and elegant. I was
looking at different objects in that apartment when I awoke.

I had the feeling that it was in Texas.

Later, in dreaming I found myself at the top of a huge volcano,
at the edge of a cliff thousands of feet high. It seemed to me
to be like an island in the Pacific, with lush jungle covering
the island, but the mountain seemed much larger than any real
mountain could possibly be.

In the dream, I thought about recent conversations on the
Castaneda mailing list where we had discussed throwing
ourselves off the cliffs of Mars in dreaming, and I decided
that it would be fun to throw myself from the volcano.

I did so. After falling several hundred feet, watching everything
whiz by, I decided to look at my hands as I flew through the air.
And after a bit of falling while gazing at my hands, I decided to
try to change the dreaming scene (before I hit the ground).

Again, I thought of some others who had been trying to meet in
their dreaming and I decided I did not want to meet with them.
It occurred to me that I would like to find "the warriors that I
belong with" and I closed my eyes, intending to open them
in the presence of those warriors, whoever they might be,
and voicing my intent to travel to them.

When I opened my eyes, I was on a city plaza, walking in a crowd
of people. I quickly came upon a group of very young people with
short hair-cuts like Tensegrity practitioners. In fact, it *was*
with such warriors that I wound up practicing with extensively,
about a year later.

.

Notice that the WILD session wasn't even the coolest dreaming
experience I had that night. Yet it was still notable enough
to write it down. (I had one other LD session that same night
which didn't merit keeping notes on.)

I only had success with WILD a couple of more times after that,
in all the following years. It was always hard for me to make
the 'transition' from hypnagogia or a 'color patch' into the
actual LD.

I even remember this first successful WILD 'transition' in
greater detail than is recorded in my journal, and since the
transition is the most difficult issue in WILD, I'm going to take
the time to describe it in the fullest detail I can recall.
After staring at that blotch of color (purplish red) for a while
a dark 'gap' started to open in the center of it, and through it -
as if from a considerable distance - I could see a scene forming
of some city streets at night, and after staring for a bit I began
slowly 'zooming down' toward it in my vision, so that the image
was becoming larger and more realistic, and at a certain point
things went dark for fraction of a second and next I was standing
in the middle of a street, looking at the city buildings around me,
in what seemed like late twilight or just after it. After walking
on down that street for a minute or so I continued into the main
part of the dream, which first involved a scene change to the
inside of a building I'd become interested in and then I spent
several minutes exploring in detail the inside of one apartment.
At the time, I had a vague feeling that I was inside the apartment
of some "sorcerer" who lived somewhere in Texas, but that was
probably just my imagination, as was the interpretation I would later
adopt of having the young people with short-hair be practitioners
of Tensegrity. The entire LD sequence for this WILD probably lasted
something like 10-12 minutes.

Anyway Slider. I just showed you my first WILD, from 24 years ago.
Do I expect this to change anything?? No. Like Trump and Putin,
and others like them, you'll probably try to minimize this and
then just keep on lying. Like you do about so many other things. :)

Just consider... "homo acutus" - if he's worth a damn -
would never be so threatened by the truth as you are.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

Slider wrote:

"...now 379 aspiring WILD ones in the WILD & WILDing FB group!"

### - now 384 :P

Hope you enjoyed the account of my very first clear-cut WILD! :)

### - have never been interested in 'lies' (gave 'em all up at age 22)

all words are lies :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Slider wrote:

"...now 379 aspiring WILD ones in the WILD & WILDing FB group!"

Hope you enjoyed the account of my very first clear-cut WILD! :)

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

Trump doesn't stop lying and bullshitting even when he's caught and
proven to be lying. Trump has no respect at all for the truth.

### - lol of course he lies!

he's a politician! it's par for the course! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KjRnh-TBno

What if politicians were all good guys
Oh Lord don’t we wish they were
We would not be so dependent
On courts of laws that make us all feel like defendants sometimes
If we want freedom we’ve got to amend it
On our way down
There’s nobody left to crown

--richie havens

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Trump Admits To Making Up Trade Deficit
In Talks With Canadian Prime Minister:

http://tinyurl.com/y9bbahbz

Excerpts:

In audio of a closed-door fundraiser obtained by the Washington Post and NBC News, President Trump boasts to donors that he "had no idea" whether he was correct when he insisted to Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau that the U.S. has a trade deficit
with Canada.

It doesn't. In fact, according to the U.S. Trade Representative in 2016, the U.S. had a $12.5 billion goods and services trade surplus with Canada. Trump sometimes ignores trade in services, which pumps up trade deficit numbers, but that isn't an
accurate way to look at the U.S. trade relationship with other countries...

Services make up a significantly larger share of the US economy than goods production.

Trump was in the midst of a 30-minute speech at a fundraiser in St. Louis on Wednesday when, according to the Washington Post write-up, he riffed on a conversation he'd had with Trudeau.

" 'Trudeau came to see me. He's a good guy, Justin. He said, "No, no, we have no trade deficit with you, we have none. Donald, please," ' Trump said, mimicking Trudeau, according to audio of the private event in Missouri obtained
by The Washington Post. '
Nice guy, good-looking guy, comes in — "Donald, we have no trade deficit." He's very proud because everybody else, you know, we're getting killed. ...

" 'So, he's proud. I said, "Wrong, Justin, you do." I didn't even know. ... I had no idea. I just said, "You're wrong." You know why? Because we're so stupid. ... And I thought they were smart. I said, "You're wrong, Justin." He said, "Nope, we have no
trade deficit." I said, "Well, in that case, I feel differently," I said, "but I don't believe it." I sent one of our guys out, his guy, my guy, they went out, I said, "Check, because I can't believe it." ' "

This caught-on-tape moment comes less than a week after Trump signed proclamations putting stiff tariffs on steel and aluminum imports...

It's not clear how this admission that the president contradicted another world
leader without basis will affect future negotiations or relationships with Trudeau and other leaders. A failure to agree on basic facts would seem to make
such negotiations
more difficult...

Asked by reporters during a photo opportunity in the Oval Office whether he has
always been truthful with Trudeau, Trump ignored the question.

But he is standing by his assertion that the U.S. has a trade deficit with Canada, tweeting Thursday morning, "P.M. Justin Trudeau of Canada, a very good guy, doesn't like saying that Canada has a Surplus vs. the U.S.(negotiating), but they do...they
almost all do...and that's how I know!"...

A spokeswoman for the Canadian government declined to comment on Trump's remarks and directed NPR to a tweet from the Canadian ambassador to the U.S., David MacNaughton [who tweeted the following reply along with a large collection of facts and
statistics backing up what he said]:

To all our American friends: “U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $12.5 billion in 2016.”
Source: Office of the United States Trade Representative

.

Trump doesn't stop lying and bullshitting even when he's caught and proven to be lying. Trump has no respect at all for the truth.

.

Robert Reich said... "To the People of Canada:

We are ashamed of the pathological liar now occupying the White House. Please know that Trump’s dishonesty does not reflect the values of the vast majority
of Americans. Try to be patient with us.

We the People of the United States"

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 6:21:20 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

Trump doesn't stop lying and bullshitting even when he's caught and
proven to be lying. Trump has no respect at all for the truth.

### - lol of course he lies!
he's a politician! it's par for the course! :D

Incredibly sloppy thinking on your part, once again.
What Trump does isn't even close to being "par for the course".
By an NY Times count, Trump told nearly 6 times more lies in
his first 10 months than Obama did in his entire 8-year term.
That shit is not "normal". Not by any previous standards.

While the NY Times actual count is questionable, it nevertheless
portrays the reality of the Trump situation accurately.
Even worse than his constant lying, Trump also frequently tries
to discredit those who are doing their best to reveal the truth,
a tactic which is even nastier.

Slider admits:

### - "have never been interested in 'lies' (gave 'em all up at age 22)

all words are lies :) "

Believing in a ridiculous adolescent idea you adopted at age 22
certainly would seem to explain a lot of your behavior. You don't
appear to care if a thing you say is accurate and you treat every
discussion like some crappy PR war. A lot like Trump does, actually.

I'm left to wonder why a person who believes "all words are lies"
would talk so damn much? No wonder you uncritically accept whatever
Miller says just because you like him. If all of his words are lies,
then their only possible value could be in how entertaining you find
them to be - even when they're inflammatory and irrational (which
was Henry's worst flaw as both a writer and a man, although yeah,
he was indeed a great writer). No wonder you never apologize for
outright lying about other people or about world events even after
you've been proven wrong.

It's almost as if you don't even know what a "lie" is. To "lie"
is more than just being wrong, it means to deliberately attempt to
deceive. And while the rest of us may not agree that everyone
is being deliberately deceptive every time they speak, we can
acknowledge that this is your view, since you said so many times.
Perhaps all of YOUR words are lies? Perhaps you are being
deliberately deceptive every single time you speak? It would
explain a lot, about you that is.

In my opinion, taking the simplistic general position that
"all words are lies" is not only childishly inaccurate, it destroys
even the possibility of having a rational discussion or of ever
arriving at an accurate or meaningful view of *anything*.
It does indeed open the doorway to a world filled with "alternate facts"
It's anti-reason and anti-science. If all statements are lies,
then the best anyone could hope for is "to tell the prettiest lies".
And that's just complete bullshit.

Even to state: "all words are lies" is to mouth a silly paradox,
since the statement itself is in words, and thus is also presumably
a lie, so obviously the statement itself couldn't even be true,
and thus says nothing.

Slider has made posts to the internet using words.
Slider has never made a single post to the internet using words.

One of those statements can be proved true and one is a lie.
Both of the statements are not lies. The idea is just plain stupid.
So thanks for wasting our time once again with a totally stupid idea.
I'm sure it won't be the last time.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

"not worth talking to" wrote :P

...yet another endless list of 'grandiose' complaints & accusations duh...

### - listen mate; ANY cunt can be a critic?!

(and lol you've certainly proven that alright!)

***

sigh, why is it that those who've never actually 'produced' anything of
their own worth mentioning, always consider themselves to be an expert
critic of OTHER people's life & work?

and then LOL get annoyed when nobody pays any attention to them?? :D

could it simply be they're just green with... jealously/envy?

could be! :)

***

IF you REALLY think you're BETTER than everyone else jeremy, then why
don't you 'publish' your 'obviously better' ideas and just have done with
it?

that way, you can tell-off the whole world one-time!

or is endlessly 'bickering' & 'bitching' your particular... style :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 17:18:20 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

What a feeble attempt at a response. Maybe not absolutely all
of your words are lies, but most of them are. :)

### - ALL words are lies! :)

it's an old argument? (2004 or 2005 i think...)

and if i thought your invitation to debate it was genuine, i would

but i know it's not & your not! :)

for no sooner than we'd get into it then you'd veer off into attacking me personally!

and that's NOT debate!

so what you're REALLY inviting me to is yet just another slanging match!?

so why should i bother wasting my time??

you can talk to the hand :)

***

Ps. ain't gonna discuss it further with ya no matter WHAT 'mess' you get yourself into with it heh, and you will... but just in case you've
forgotten: the reason i originally suggested that 'all words are lies' is because words pertain to 'ideas' and ideas are 'conceptualisations' of
reality and 'not' the reality itself that they purport they attempt to define/describe! as such; words are thus always one step 'removed' from
reality by nature & default!

the question/implication being: is there then a reality where words are
'not' involved? and of course the answer is yes!: the rest of nature and arguably the whole universe! 'none' of which needs (or needed) words to
exist, function & be! it's thus only human beings that are 'lying' (living
in a lie) because they've completely immersed themselves in the concepualisation of everything!: exclusively! a stance which admits of
nothing else so nothing 'else' exists for it except what it's 'capable' of rendering/distilling 'into' said ideas! - and perforce not everything fits!

which is why it 'appears' to us that nature is kinda dumb compared to us humans!

only nature *isn't* dumb nor unintelligent, it's actually rather smart!
it's US that's dumb and not very intelligent because rightly or wrongly
we've 'departed' from said nature & the rest of the universe and gone-off
doing our own conceptualised thing!

so yes, in that sense all words ARE lies because they deliberately
'clothe' reality with something more than what's really/actually there! something WE'VE invented & 'superimposed' over the underlying reality that
is ultimately the rest of nature and the universe!

and then we've forgotten that we've done that and so end up believing only
our own ideas!

like there's nothing else in the universe besides... us??

riiiight... :)

heh, we may indeed have subsequently realised that the sun *doesn't*
revolve around the earth, but that didn't stop us from 'continuing' to
imagine that the universe still exclusively revolves around us!

:)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

What a feeble attempt at a response. Maybe not absolutely all
of your words are lies, but most of them are. :)

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

It isn't difficult or complex. Just don't do it. Stop lying.
LOL. :)

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)