From: slider@nanashram.com

### - research into the nature of WILDs & WILDing compared to DILDs
continues on my part, but am slowly coming to the conclusion that WILDs
are entirely separate from sleep altogether!

the point being that DILDs are a product of REM sleep, WILDs are not... therefore WILDs exist 'outside' of sleep altogether whereas DILDs do not...

the possibility remains, however, that DILDs are merely a form of WILDs experienced unconsciously 'during' sleep... in ordinary dreams we
explore/probe all our waking perception(s) and often repeat/explore/probe
them to varying degrees albeit completely unconsciously, and our 'ability'
to WILD (which remains mostly an unconscious activity while waking) is no exception to being explored during our ordinary dreams & dreaming too, but which 'become' what we then 'call' DILDs whenever we notice/activate them!

thus DILDs are currently an unconscious 'hint', from our dreaming, of the 'existence' of WILDs and our ability to be 'able' to do so!

dreams are directly 'associated' with REM sleep, WILDs are not!

the 'implication' of all this is that WILDs are NOT in fact... dreams!?

they are something else altogether! - as are potentially DILDs too!

fascinating! ;)

the big question is: what ARE dreams really?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

the worthy question:

the big question is: what ARE dreams really?

mostly memory that hangs to you.
alot of imagination that gets sorted out.
what would be a present moment dream?
most likely a wild or dild.
a chance to create something brand new
and not based on the past or future.

Oh Lord give me the freshness of a true dream!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

the worthy question:

the big question is: what ARE dreams really?

mostly memory that hangs to you.
alot of imagination that gets sorted out.
what would be a present moment dream?
most likely a wild or dild.
a chance to create something brand new
and not based on the past or future.

Oh Lord give me the freshness of a true dream!

### - in the light of WILDs am honestly beginning to think that 'dreams'
are more than we ever thought/realised?

we've generally been 'calling' them 'dreams' because we usually lack
volition in them, dreams being something we're 'subject' (and subjected)
to without actually wanting it to happen... and/or something that's
normally out of reach directly so we say that we 'dream' of things, of obtaining unobtainable things & wishes because we can't go directly to
them for whatever reason etc... the dream of winning something, of
obtaining our hearts desires etc... the 'term' dream making it sound/feel
like it's therefore something unreal/just out of reach... just a dream!

but, when you can turn the dream-state on and off like a light switch it completely changes one's perception of the whole thing! one is obviously
IN the area (of awareness) wherein unconscious dreams more usually occur &
take place, only now one is fully conscious & awake in that state and are
able to turn it on/off at will, thus it can no longer really be 'called' a dream as such!

that under the circumstances of WILDing it's obviously more an altered
state of awareness than just a dream!

iow: do it 'unconsciously' and it's called dreaming, do it 'consciously'
and it becomes something else again, and/or was really something else all
along only we weren't really ever awake enough in them to recognise it
being such...

what then IS it really? what then actually IS an altered state??

it's definitely MORE than just... dreaming!

but what? :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

here is a dream from last night.
Somewhere between 3 and 4 o'clock
i had this nice dream. When i woke
up from this dream it was so clear
and easy to recall. There was kind
of a teaching at the end that i wish
i could draw here for you all but maybe
i can describe it. This big tall Indian
looking guy that could have been an American
Indian or perhaps and Indian from India.
He was old but looked very young and vital.
He talked and I talked. He said that as
one goes along that person gets tighter and
tighter with saving energy. He said we start
out going round in circles and those circles
get smaller. And then the circle moves to
a tighter set of circles. Eventually you get
it together in life. Something about the process
of yoga like, you get better and better. It made
such perfect sense in the dream. This could just
be a picture of how i have lived i suppose. It was
me talking to myself in the dream, the wise old
Indian to the present day Chris. Sure there's a wise
side to me just as there is a bonehead side to me.
This dream seemed to have a sense of great hope to
it like just keep truckin' pal you'll get there.
In fact you've made great progress along the way.
He said when he started out it was difficult to explain
to others what he was doing but in time his story or
his rap got "tighter". Maybe i am on the 'right' trail.
This was a good as any lucid dream i've ever had, everything
made sense in the dream, i 'got' it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

this guy seemed to be explaing to me
his difficulty in telling people what
he was doing. But as time went by he
was able to directly tell what he
was doing. He explained this way to
me: picture a circle about the size
of a silver dollar, then a fifty cent
piece, then a quarter, nickel, dime,
and a penny. See how the sizes drop
down? As one goes around each item
they get closer to the middle, something
like the center of a bullseye. Then the
circle jumps outside of that to the next
coin and continues doing the same thing.
So picture the large coin down to the small
coin, going around in that circle and then
leaving for a new coin. He showed me something
that looked like a drawing on the side of a cave
rock wall. As i watched i thought this stuff
seems ancient. But the process itself seemed
new. Maybe everyone goes through something like
this, that is the ones that are seeking something
other than just a 9-5 life, having babies, going
to college, etc.etc. Depends on what you're
looking for in life huh?

### - 'does' sound like he was describing 'spirals' no?

plus, spirals are indeed ancient symbols (as depicted in those cave
paintings) the meaning/interpretation of which is now lost (in the way
'they' meant/intended them) to us in the mists of time... the ancient
britons & celts having/applying a wholly different world of ideas/concepts compared to us in ours now...

also reminds of cc's 'heightened awareness'? in that; IN that 'state' one reputedly understood things directly as they were meant by the person
relating them, even though the concepts & ideas themselves were perhaps completely novel... the person doing the 'telling' knew what they meant
and somehow was able to 'impart' that same understanding directly and/or
kinda telepathically then... the propensity to 'forget' actually being
very similar to dreams in that the 'meanings' (and even the whole
conversation itself) was quickly forgotten upon returning to a normal
waking state of awareness (meaning: i wonder if that's where he even got
it from?)

fact is; there's an awful lot we DON'T yet know about awareness, mainly
because everyone's just too busy with their routine daily shit to perhaps
even notice heh... :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

this guy seemed to be explaing to me
his difficulty in telling people what
he was doing. But as time went by he
was able to directly tell what he
was doing. He explained this way to
me: picture a circle about the size
of a silver dollar, then a fifty cent
piece, then a quarter, nickel, dime,
and a penny. See how the sizes drop
down? As one goes around each item
they get closer to the middle, something
like the center of a bullseye. Then the
circle jumps outside of that to the next
coin and continues doing the same thing.
So picture the large coin down to the small
coin, going around in that circle and then
leaving for a new coin. He showed me something
that looked like a drawing on the side of a cave
rock wall. As i watched i thought this stuff
seems ancient. But the process itself seemed
new. Maybe everyone goes through something like
this, that is the ones that are seeking something
other than just a 9-5 life, having babies, going
to college, etc.etc. Depends on what you're
looking for in life huh?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

looks something like this but there
are a couple circles next to each.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/457467274619572228/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

the trick is to remember what happened
in the second attention (for lack of a better term)
he quickly leaves the dreamer upon waking.
I stayed awake for awhile after i woke up
from that dream. Now the dream is marked
for life, i can't forget it. Dreams like
that don't come around very often, but when
they do one better grab for dear life.
This person in the dream later told me some
other stuff about how i treat my children.
He said i wasn't as fair as i could be.
Shit it was news to me. I thought i treated
both my girls fairly. Hell i even treat my
dogs fairly too. lol!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

the trick is to remember what happened
in the second attention (for lack of a better term)
he quickly leaves the dreamer upon waking.
I stayed awake for awhile after i woke up
from that dream. Now the dream is marked
for life, i can't forget it. Dreams like
that don't come around very often, but when
they do one better grab for dear life.
This person in the dream later told me some
other stuff about how i treat my children.
He said i wasn't as fair as i could be.
Shit it was news to me. I thought i treated
both my girls fairly. Hell i even treat my
dogs fairly too. lol!

### - tip-toeing through the tulips (and caverns) of your mind :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj2diB6fcpg

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 4:44:18 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:

### - research into the nature of WILDs & WILDing compared to DILDs continues on my part, but am slowly coming to the conclusion that WILDs
are entirely separate from sleep altogether!

the point being that DILDs are a product of REM sleep,

International Journal of Dream Research
Vol 5, No 2 (October 2012)

Lucid dreaming during NREM sleep: Two case reports
Tadas Stumbrys, Daniel Erlacher

Abstract

Lucid dreams – dreams in which the dreamer is aware that is dreaming – most
frequently occur during REM sleep, yet there is some evidence suggesting that lucid dreaming can occur during NREM sleep as well. By conducting a sleep laboratory study on
lucid dreams, we found two possible instances of lucidity during NREM sleep which are reported here. While lucid dreaming during NREM sleep seems to be much rarer and more difficult to achieve, it appears to be possible and is most
likely to occur during
N1 sleep, somewhat less likely during N2 sleep and yet to be observed during N3
sleep.

***

Lucid Dreaming: Psychophysiological Studies of Consciousness during REM Sleep by Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. (1981)

"After being instructed in the method of lucid dream induction (MILD) described
by LaBerge (1980b) the subjects were recorded from 2 to 20 nights each. In the course of the 34 nights of the study, 35 lucid dreams were reported subsequent to spontaneous
awakening from various stages of sleep as follows: REM sleep 32 times, NREM Stage-1, twice, and during the transition from NREM Stage-2 to REM, once."

WILDs are not...
therefore WILDs exist 'outside' of sleep altogether whereas DILDs do not...

the possibility remains, however, that DILDs are merely a form of WILDs experienced unconsciously 'during' sleep... in ordinary dreams we explore/probe all our waking perception(s) and often repeat/explore/probe them to varying degrees albeit completely unconsciously, and our 'ability' to WILD (which remains mostly an unconscious activity while waking) is no exception to being explored during our ordinary dreams & dreaming too, but which 'become' what we then 'call' DILDs whenever we notice/activate them!

thus DILDs are currently an unconscious 'hint', from our dreaming, of the 'existence' of WILDs and our ability to be 'able' to do so!

dreams are directly 'associated' with REM sleep, WILDs are not!

the 'implication' of all this is that WILDs are NOT in fact... dreams!?

they are something else altogether! - as are potentially DILDs too!

fascinating! ;)

the big question is: what ARE dreams really?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:44:31 -0000, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 4:44:18 PM UTC-8, slider wrote:

### - research into the nature of WILDs & WILDing compared to DILDs
continues on my part, but am slowly coming to the conclusion that WILDs
are entirely separate from sleep altogether!

International Journal of Dream Research
Vol 5, No 2 (October 2012)

Lucid dreaming during NREM sleep: Two case reports
Tadas Stumbrys, Daniel Erlacher

Abstract

Lucid dreams – dreams in which the dreamer is aware that is dreaming – most frequently occur during REM sleep, yet there is some evidence
suggesting that lucid dreaming can occur during NREM sleep as well. By conducting a sleep laboratory study on lucid dreams, we found two
possible instances of lucidity during NREM sleep which are reported
here. While lucid dreaming during NREM sleep seems to be much rarer and
more difficult to achieve, it appears to be possible and is most likely
to occur during N1 sleep, somewhat less likely during N2 sleep and yet
to be observed during N3 sleep.

### - your *second-hand* information is actually 36 YEARS outta' date!?

as are you apparently heh... :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com

It's a summary of the existing studies.
You provided no studies.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:12:09 -0000, Jeremy H. Donovan <jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com> wrote:

It's a summary of the existing studies.
You provided no studies.

### - there hasn't been any additions to 'existing' studies in over 36
years!

however, i published the results of my 'own' studies (the result of more
than 6 years practical research into WILDS) on march 2016 last; hell you
even own a copy of it. :)

granted, it's not an 'academic' study, but then am not academically
trained...

this information is now 'out there' for anyone to attempt to reproduce,
many quite ordinary independent unbiased peeps (at least 40 so far) since
then having in fact reproduced my results perfectly & flawlessly to the
letter!

'time' will thus 'scientifically' either confirm or debunk my lay-paper as regards WILDS being 'outside of sleep per se' and am perfectly content to
wait until then... but so far it appears to be correct in every detail
apart from some distinct variations along the same lines...

the fact that 'you', via some admittedly 'distinct inability' (or perhaps
even disability) that is obviously very personally your own; doesn't at
all detract from my reported results other than to perhaps suggest that
'some' peeps just can't do it, probably and/or likely due to some kinda
novel and/or erroneous wiring in their brain or whatever, who knows...

something that may (or may not) go on to later assist/highlight 'other'
studies into the nature of certain mental deficiencies and/or
aberrant/novel wirings in the physical brain heh...

so up yours! :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)