From: superkuh@superkuh.com

Here's an update to this one. It looks like the FCC is only going to
give about 10 MHz of the 5.9 GHz band for vehicle stuff.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/regulatory/fcc-looks-to-dedicate-5-9-ghz-for-wi-fi-c-v2x-use

On 07/07/2017 02:55 AM, superkuh wrote:

"The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is
proposing a requirement that every car should broadcast a cleartext
message specifying its exact position, speed, and heading ten times per second." The RF broadcast would be on Channel 172 on the 5.9 GHz band
at ~15 dBm (the minimum suggested) to achieve a 300m range. The purpose
would be to aid autonomous vehicles.

These cleartext messages sound like they'll be signed with a rotating
set of some ~tens of keys as a basic protection against some kinds of spoofing.

The dangers of spoofing a system (ie, GPS or this) used by autonomous vehicles to plan routes is obvious. The dangers of yet another source of location data may not be.

It can be argued that people have already given up on not being tracked everywhere due to the prevalence of tracking smart phones (both
software/gps and basestation/multilateration) and of license plate
readers and their databases.

But at least those things are mostly optional. Mandating this broadcast
on all cars is a major change even if the range is nominally only 300m.

ref: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-01-12/pdf/2016-31059.pdf -
The RF bits start around page 32.

ref, summary: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2017/06/21/killing-car-privacy-by-federal-mandate/

It sounds somewhat similar to an already existing NHTSA creation: the
tire pressure monitoring system (tpms) that already exist in some vehicles/tires. These signals can uniquely identify a vehicle and can be received with $8 dvb-t usb sticks used as software defined radios
(rtlsdr) and decoded using https://github.com/jboone/tpms

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: pinku@straylight.freeside.l5

I haven't heard anything about this stuff in Europe yet but it may be a while away since we just got these GDPR data protection laws that requires consent for almost everything.

--

/ Pinku

On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 17:08:07 -0600
superkuh <superkuh@superkuh.com> wrote:

Here's an update to this one. It looks like the FCC is only going to
give about 10 MHz of the 5.9 GHz band for vehicle stuff.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/regulatory/fcc-looks-to-dedicate-5-9-ghz-for-wi-fi-c-v2x-use

On 07/07/2017 02:55 AM, superkuh wrote:

"The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is
proposing a requirement that every car should broadcast a cleartext
message specifying its exact position, speed, and heading ten times per second." The RF broadcast would be on Channel 172 on the 5.9 GHz band
at ~15 dBm (the minimum suggested) to achieve a 300m range. The purpose would be to aid autonomous vehicles.

These cleartext messages sound like they'll be signed with a rotating
set of some ~tens of keys as a basic protection against some kinds of spoofing.

The dangers of spoofing a system (ie, GPS or this) used by autonomous vehicles to plan routes is obvious. The dangers of yet another source of location data may not be.

It can be argued that people have already given up on not being tracked everywhere due to the prevalence of tracking smart phones (both software/gps and basestation/multilateration) and of license plate
readers and their databases.

But at least those things are mostly optional. Mandating this broadcast
on all cars is a major change even if the range is nominally only 300m.

ref: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-01-12/pdf/2016-31059.pdf -
The RF bits start around page 32.

ref, summary: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2017/06/21/killing-car-privacy-by-federal-mandate/

It sounds somewhat similar to an already existing NHTSA creation: the
tire pressure monitoring system (tpms) that already exist in some vehicles/tires. These signals can uniquely identify a vehicle and can be received with $8 dvb-t usb sticks used as software defined radios
(rtlsdr) and decoded using https://github.com/jboone/tpms

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: superkuh@superkuh.com

Here's another update from the FCC side of the NHTSA car radio telemetry proposal.

"At its December 12 meeting, the FCC considered another NPRM in WT
Docket 19-138 that would "take a fresh and comprehensive look" at the
rules for the 5.9 GHz band and propose, among other things, to make the
lower 45 MHz of the band available for unlicensed operations and to
permit "cellular vehicle-to-everything" (C-V2X) operations in the upper
20 MHz of the band."

This "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" (NPRM) can be found online in PDF
format at, https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-19-129A1.pdf

-----Excerpts from the pdf-----

C-V2X is a standards-based communications system based on the 4G LTE-Pro
system in 3GPP Release 14, with additional standard work currently
underway to develop 5G C-V2X peer-to-peer mode. 5GAA has suggested that Commission adopt proposed technical rules for C-V2X operations that are
based on the 3GPP standard and include:

802.11p-2010, IEEE Standard for Information technology – Local and metropolitan area networks

- 20 dBm antenna input power for all C-V2X devices (vehicular, portable,
and roadside units);
- Equivalent isotopically radiated power (EIRP):
o 23 dBm for vehicular and portable units; and
o 33 dBm for roadside units;
- Out-of-band emissions (OOBE) measured at the antenna input (i.e.,
conducted OOBE limits) limited to:
o -29 dBm/100 kHz at the band edge;
o -35 dBm/100 kHz ± 1 megahertz from the band edge;
o -43 dBm/100 kHz ± 10 megahertz from the band edge; and
o -53 dBm ± 20 megahertz from the band edge.
- OOBE radiated limits: All C-V2X on-board units and roadside units will
limit emissions to -25 dBm/100 kHz EIRP or less outside the band edges
of 5.905 GHz and 5.925 GHz.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)