Hello There,

Another question. :-)

I've gotten to know the install process with Mystic somewhat and my question is. When one installs Mystic the installer seems insistant on creating the Mystic root directory itself. And will abort if the specified directory
already exists. Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES already exist? My thought is if I have say a user named "mystic"
and therefor have an existing /home/mystic home directory. Is there a way to work with the installer to get it to install Mystic to the existing /home/mystic home directory?

Would Mystic have problems if it were moved after it was installed? It
wouldn't be a big deal to change system paths in Mystic config. But I did't know if Mystic would otherwise have a problem being moved.

I know from experience that BBBS doesn't like being moved but then it also doesn't have an installer either and will operate from whatever directory
it was extracted into.


Jeff

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: New Mystic BBS (21:1/128.3)

Hello There,

Another question. :-)

I've gotten to know the install process with Mystic somewhat and my question is. When one installs Mystic the installer seems insistant on creating the Mystic root directory itself. And will abort if the specified directory
already exists. Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES already exist? My thought is if I have say a user named "mystic"
and therefor have an existing /home/mystic home directory. Is there a way to work with the installer to get it to install Mystic to the existing

Would Mystic have problems if it were moved after it was installed? It
wouldn't be a big deal to change system paths in Mystic config. But I did't know if Mystic would otherwise have a problem being moved.

I know from experience that BBBS doesn't like being moved but then it also doesn't have an installer either and will operate from whatever directory
it was originally extracted into.


Jeff

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: New Mystic BBS (21:1/128.3)

Hello There,
Another question. :-)
I've gotten to know the install process with Mystic somewhat and my question is. When one installs Mystic the installer seems insistant on creating the Mystic root directory itself. And will abort if the specified directory
already exists. Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory
that DOES already exist? My thought is if I have say a user named "mystic" and therefor have an existing /home/mystic home directory. Is there a way to work with the installer to get it to install Mystic to the existing
Would Mystic have problems if it were moved after it was installed? It wouldn't be a big deal to change system paths in Mystic config. But I did't know if Mystic would otherwise have a problem being moved.
I know from experience that BBBS doesn't like being moved but then it also doesn't have an installer either and will operate from whatever directory
it was originally extracted into.
Jeff

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
* Origin: FsxNet: The Ouija Board - bbs.ouijabrd.net (21:1/128)

I've gotten to know the install process with Mystic somewhat and my question is. When one installs Mystic the installer seems insistant on creating the Mystic root directory itself. And will abort if the
specified directory already exists. Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES already exist? My thought is if I

No, because many people in the past do not read the upgrade instructions and instead they install Mystic over top of their current installation. They then proceed to lose their entire BBS and sometimes also get mad at me for the mistake they made.

Maybe I could have it so that if it has a directory that already exists, it would only extract the executable files and none of the configuration to help assist with the upgrade process.

I am open to ideas.

Would Mystic have problems if it were moved after it was installed? It wouldn't be a big deal to change system paths in Mystic config. But I did't know if Mystic would otherwise have a problem being moved.

You can move it you just have to go through the configuration and change the paths in all of the right places. System Config > Paths, themes, and the message base path using the global base changer.

I would like to make it so you can just move it wherever even between Windows, Linux, OSX, etc, without changing anything. The Mystic 2 demo worked that way, but people didn't seem to like that there would be some "hardcoded" directory names/structure and the entire concept was scrapped.

Personally I think it was an epic loss for Mystic that it wasn't done because the benefits of being able to drag and drop themes and move your entire BBS even between operating system types with no change... far outweighs the "OCD" of people being able to change a directory name!

But I just went with what seemed to be most popular.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (21:1/108)

On 11/29/17, Jeffs said the following...

I've gotten to know the install process with Mystic somewhat and my question is. When one installs Mystic the installer seems insistant on creating the Mystic root directory itself. And will abort if the
specified directory already exists. Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES already exist? My thought is if I
have say a user named "mystic" and therefor have an existing
/home/mystic home directory. Is there a way to work with the installer
to get it to install Mystic to the existing /home/mystic home directory?

What I do here, is unzip the Mystic files into a temp directory, such as /home/dan/temp. That way, when I install it, I just change the install directory from /mystic/ to mystic/. This will install it into its own subdirectory within the temp. (/home/dan/temp/mystic)

Once installed, I can just copy the executable files into my main Mystic system, which is located in /home/dan/mystic.

I know that's not exactly what you were asking, but wanted to share how I do it. This way, I'm not overwriting any of my data files that I have modified within my main Mystic directory.


---

Black Panther
a.k.a. Dan Richter
Sysop - Castle Rock BBS (RCS)
The sparrows are flying again....

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)

Hello g00r00,

Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES >> already exist?

No, because many people in the past do not read the upgrade instructions and instead they install Mystic over top of their current installation. They then proceed to lose their entire BBS and sometimes also get mad at me for the mistake they made.

You will be working a log time to make something idiot proof my friend. :-) I tend to lean towards whats simple and flexible. And not afraid to hold myself guilty of doing stupid sh.. stuff. I've done it before and I am destined to probably do it again in the future.

Maybe I could have it so that if it has a directory that already exists, it would only extract the executable files and none of the configuration to help assist with the upgrade process.

And/or getting the installers confirmation on using a directory whos contents may be overwritten.

I am open to ideas.

I would still like to see it as an option. With maybe reasonable verification in place. Maybe have the installer check for the existence of Mystic files in the mystic directory and if none exist, then go ahead and use that existing directory.

Would Mystic have problems if it were moved after it was installed? It
wouldn't be a big deal to change system paths in Mystic config. But I
didn't know if Mystic would otherwise have a problem being moved.

I will investigate the Linux option of having the installer create the Mystic directory /home/mystic and then I create a Linux user named "mystic" and see if
Linux would use a pre-existing directory as the users home directory. I would just need to change/create the correct Linux ownership and permissions.

You can move it you just have to go through the configuration and change the paths in all of the right places. System Config > Paths, themes, and the message base path using the global base changer.

Thats the problem I had when I tried to move a BBS in the past. Some of the paths were written to files that couldn't be changed.

I would like to make it so you can just move it wherever even between Windows, >Linux, OSX, etc, without changing anything. The Mystic 2 demo worked that way
but people didn't seem to like that there would be some "hardcoded" directory names/structure and the entire concept was scrapped.

I think one thing that I've learned over the years is just that you're not going to ever please everyone, and the most important person to please is yourself.

But I just went with what seemed to be most popular.

What's popular can sometimes depend on what direction the wind happens to be blowing at the moment. :-)


Jeff

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
* Origin: FsxNet: The Ouija Board - bbs.ouijabrd.net (21:1/128)

Hello g00r00,

Is there a way to have the installer use a specified directory that DOES >>> already exist?

I would still like to see it as an option. With maybe reasonable verification
in place. Maybe have the installer check for the existence of Mystic files in
the mystic directory and if none exist, then go ahead and use that existing directory.

I will investigate the Linux option of having the installer create the Mystic directory /home/mystic and then I create a Linux user named "mystic" and see

if

Linux would use a pre-existing directory as the users home directory. I would just need to change/create the correct Linux ownership and permissions.

I did as I described.

I extracted the Mystic archive to a temp directory.

I gave Linux ownership and permissions to current user "bbs" to /home

I ran ./install and told it to use /home/mystic as it's install directory.

Mystic Install created the /home/mystic directory and installed the Mystic files.

I created Linux user "mystic" and gave it ownership/permissions to /home/mystic.

Logged in as user "mystic" and all Mystic files/directories were there.

Now... Please don't allow this to dismiss the idea of action verification and use
of an existing /mystic directory IF no mystic files currently exist in that directory.


Jeff

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
* Origin: FsxNet: The Ouija Board - bbs.ouijabrd.net (21:1/128)

Hello g00r00,

This is a test message from Mystic in it's new install directory of
/home/mystic.

Note: line above indented as Mystic will not permit me to place a "/"
there without displaying a message menu.

Please don't let this defer you from considering the use of existing
/mystic directories with verification of use or the absense of existing
Mystic BBS files in existing /mystic directory.


Jeff

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/28 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Ouijaboard II (21:1/128.2)

Maybe I could have it so that if it has a directory that already exists, would only extract the executable files and none of the configuration to assist with the upgrade process.

And/or getting the installers confirmation on using a directory whos contents may be overwritten.

Yep, tried that too in the past and it doesn't stop people from installing over their setup. Some people simply do not read things, even when prompted. :(

I would still like to see it as an option. With maybe reasonable verification in place. Maybe have the installer check for the existence
of Mystic files in the mystic directory and if none exist, then go ahead and use that existing directory.

I agree. I think the solution is to incorporate some sort of logic like you're saying to make it work. I also want to update the installer anyway to use a blue Mystic logo and to ask on install some questions that will lead to a proper "CP437/UTF8" setting. Maybe I can do all of these at once.

You can move it you just have to go through the configuration and change paths in all of the right places. System Config > Paths, themes, and th message base path using the global base changer.

Thats the problem I had when I tried to move a BBS in the past. Some of the paths were written to files that couldn't be changed.

Nope, there isn't anything you can't change. I move my BBS between Windows and Linux from time to time and while its not an ideal situation to do, but you can absolutely move it.

I think one thing that I've learned over the years is just that you're
not going to ever please everyone, and the most important person to
please is yourself.

But I just went with what seemed to be most popular.

What's popular can sometimes depend on what direction the wind happens
to be blowing at the moment. :-)

Its difficult sometimes to decide what the right direction is. I'll occasionally want to do things one way, but others do not. I try to take everything into consideration. At the end of the day, Mystic is nothing if people do not use it, so I always try to be open to suggestions and direction at all times.

I think in this case it just boiled down to people not really grasping the benefits of the change. Its would be so easy to move your BBS between systems or change root directory names (no configuration required just move it), or to add new themes (just drop them into the themes folder (no other configuration required)...

It'd be easier to document because everything would be in the same places on all systems, and it removed the system paths configuration, the paths in each message base, the theme paths, etc so everything required less configuration and was less cluttered.

I think the biggest complaint was that message base JAM files were always
in <root>/data/msgs/ and you couldn't change the path of each individual message base data file anymore. Apparently a lot of people like to organize their data files in different folders or locations.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (21:1/108)

g00r00 wrote to Jeffs <=-

Maybe I could have it so that if it has a directory that already
exists, it would only extract the executable files and none of the configuration to help assist with the upgrade process.

The trap here is if someone does this, then doesn't do any manual steps required, they end up with a broken system too. I do have a script that performs this function, as well as manage shutting the BBS down and preventing the auto-restart system from kicking in. I'll probably continue upgrading the way I have been, because of the extra steps my script takes.


... You know you're getting old when the candles cost more than the cake.
___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Bridge - bridge.vkradio.com (21:1/143)

Black Panther wrote to Jeffs <=-

What I do here, is unzip the Mystic files into a temp directory, such
as /home/dan/temp. That way, when I install it, I just change the
install directory from /mystic/ to mystic/. This will install it into
its own subdirectory within the temp. (/home/dan/temp/mystic)

I install my new versions into a directory of their name (e.g. /a35), next, run my upgrade script, which shuts the BBS down, locks out auto-restart of MIS/MIS2, backs up the current system, then copies the binaries over. Finally, it issues a warning to read the documentation and perform any manual steps required.

When all that is done, I simply run my script to start the BBS, which re-enables the auto start system, then starts Mystic.


... Command not found. Damn, it was here a minute ago... hold on...
___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Bridge - bridge.vkradio.com (21:1/143)

Jeff Smith wrote to g00r00 <=-

You will be working a log time to make something idiot proof my friend. :-) I tend to lean towards whats simple and flexible. And not afraid to hold myself guilty of doing stupid sh.. stuff. I've done it before and
I am destined to probably do it again in the future.

I'm happy with g00r00's decision, and I do my own additional layer of idiot proofing, which is specific to my system. :)


... Aha! Another "undocumented feature"!
___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Bridge - bridge.vkradio.com (21:1/143)

Hello Tony,

On 12/02/17, Tony Langdon said the following...

I'm happy with g00r00's decision, and I do my own additional layer of idiot proofing, which is specific to my system. :)

I would be totally happy with the Mystic install utility checking the
directory that is specified. And IF there are any Mystic files that
preexist then to make note of that fact and only overwrite the executables
in the Mystic root directory and the scripts directory.

With the frequent updates recently I too have setup a bash script to automate the update process.

Jeff

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A36 2017/11/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Ouijaboard V - Anoka, MN (21:1/128.5)

On 12/04/17, Jeffs said the following...

With the frequent updates recently I too have setup a bash script to automate the update process.

I think we all do now. One thing to do is edit that script for each upgrade. For the current one you have to drop mis2 (as it's renamed mis now) and when starting use
sudo ./mis DAEMON
as that's the way it works now ;) Well, the way it should work anyway, so far mine aren't working so well and crashed my Hub which I had to restart from power up as sudo reboot didn't work. That's a Pi for you ;) It's also running the last pretty stable A35 version, I'm only upgrading the points to test the Alpha before updating the Hub. The last Pi A36 didn't work so well, never did get a working system from it, will build a new Pi A36 from scratch to test it now. That will take sometime. ;(

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Mystic Pi BBS bcw142.zapto.org (21:1/145)

The trap here is if someone does this, then doesn't do any manual steps required, they end up with a broken system too. I do have a script that

Exactly. It would pop up a box and display "upgrade.txt" contents
afterwards, but I worry that even that won't stop people from not paying attention!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A37 2017/12/04 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (21:1/108)

Jeffs wrote to vk3jed <=-

Hello Tony,

On 12/02/17, Tony Langdon said the following...

I'm happy with g00r00's decision, and I do my own additional layer of idiot proofing, which is specific to my system. :)

I would be totally happy with the Mystic install utility checking the directory that is specified. And IF there are any Mystic files that preexist then to make note of that fact and only overwrite the
executables in the Mystic root directory and the scripts directory.

Yeah, for those of us who don't have automation, that would save the tedious manual copying (the reason I wrote my script in the first place). But now, my script does more than simply copy the files, so I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing, unless g00r00 gives me a compelling reason to change my processes.
)

With the frequent updates recently I too have setup a bash script to automate the update process.

Cool. :)


... There will be a seminar on Time Travel last Thursday.
___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Bridge - bridge.vkradio.com (21:1/143)

g00r00 wrote to vk3jed <=-

The trap here is if someone does this, then doesn't do any manual steps required, they end up with a broken system too. I do have a script that

Exactly. It would pop up a box and display "upgrade.txt" contents afterwards, but I worry that even that won't stop people from not
paying attention!

LOL, good idea, you can only go so far in making something foolproof. Fools are very resourceful! :D


... *}- <- Tribble Olympics: Archery
___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A35 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: The Bridge - bridge.vkradio.com (21:1/143)