Hi!

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I
built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

I think the Amstrad CPC did? Not sure about any others. Google told
me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think that's Z80 based.

Anyway, I've started doing a little bit of coding for CP/M starting
with that Robot Chase game, so I was wondering if anyone else was into
CP/M that would like to try stuff out.

I'm using Z88DK to compile stuff, so I think it will only run on CP/M
on a Z80, but I could be wrong. I'm new at all this :)

Andrew

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built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.
I think the Amstrad CPC did? Not sure about any others. Google told
me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think that's Z80 based.

According to David Murray...the 128 had 3 different processors. Had a
6502-ish for running C64 software. Can't remember the processor which ran native 128 programs. Commodore put a Z80 on board to run CP/M you could get from Commodore or others. Here's the episode I'm talking about:

https://tinyurl.com/yx53e9vv

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On 06 Apr 2020, apam said the following...

I think the Amstrad CPC did? Not sure about any others. Google told
me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think that's Z80 based.

The C128 had both a MOS 8502 and a Zlog Z80A.

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built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80
CPUs. I think the Amstrad CPC did? Not sure about any others.
Google told me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think
that's Z80 based.

According to David Murray...the 128 had 3 different processors. Had
a 6502-ish for running C64 software. Can't remember the processor
which ran native 128 programs. Commodore put a Z80 on board to run
CP/M you could get from Commodore or others. Here's the episode I'm talking about:

Hey thanks, that was really interesting.

Andrew

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Hello apam!

06 Apr 20 12:18, you wrote to all:

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I
built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

From my very limited memore, the Microbee computers ran CP/M.

I think the Amstrad CPC did? Not sure about any others. Google told
me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think that's Z80 based.

The C128's have support for CP/M via a Z80 cpu. (Yes there are two processor's in a C128).


Vorlon


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The Kaypro and Osborn portables ran CP/M. T/S 1000 used a Z80 but I don't remember it running CP/M.
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Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

I remember there were several different "Flavors" of CP/M that could run on difference processors. You may want to look into those.

I generally don't use Wikipedia, but it's a place to start...

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On 04-06-20 15:02, Vorlon wrote to apam <=-

Hello apam!

06 Apr 20 12:18, you wrote to all:

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I
built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

From my very limited memore, the Microbee computers ran CP/M.

That's correct, a friend had a Microbee when I first moved out of home, and it definitely ran CP/M. I even wrote software for it using Turbo Padcal 3, which was available for CP/M.

The Apple ][ as well, with the addition of a Z80 card. I have such a setup here that needs a bit of TLC to get back up and running.


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On 04-05-20 23:17, garycrunk wrote to apam <=-

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

I remember there were several different "Flavors" of CP/M that could
run on difference processors. You may want to look into those.

I think a lot more variation was for the different hardware platforms. For example, on the Apple, it was hard to transfer CP/M programs to other systems, because Apple's disk format was incompatible with everything else at a physical level.

There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the IBM/Microsoft deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

I generally don't use Wikipedia, but it's a place to start...

Wikipedia has its uses. :)


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There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the
IBM/Microsoft deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

So, really, there's CP/M for Z80 and CP/M-86 for 8086? That makes a bit
more sense in my head, I was thinking along the lines of Linux/ARM,
Linux/x86 etc, so the same OS for different architectures but binary incompatibility because of the different architectures.

So in theory, if my RC2014 CP/M program works, it should work on an
Apple2 with a Z80 card or a C128 or a microbee or any other CP/M
computer.

That would also explain why some programs came with prog80.com and
prog86.com for the two different versions.

Thanks everyone for the explanations :)

Andrew

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apam wrote (2020-04-06):

There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the
IBM/Microsoft deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

So, really, there's CP/M for Z80 and CP/M-86 for 8086?

.... and for the 68000 too, but not many programs for it. There was also a multi-user CP/M called MP/M.

http://www.cpm.z80.de/

This looks interesting, if you want to go the emulation path:

https://gitlab.com/gbrein/tnylpo
https://github.com/MockbaTheBorg/RunCPM

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On 04-06-20 18:36, apam wrote to Vk3jed <=-

There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the
IBM/Microsoft deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

So, really, there's CP/M for Z80 and CP/M-86 for 8086? That makes a bit more sense in my head, I was thinking along the lines of Linux/ARM, Linux/x86 etc, so the same OS for different architectures but binary incompatibility because of the different architectures.

I'm only aware of the two flavours, though in the 8 bit world, there are two processors involved. Originally, it was the 8080, but the Z80 has a superset of the 8080's instruction set, IIRC.

So in theory, if my RC2014 CP/M program works, it should work on an
Apple2 with a Z80 card or a C128 or a microbee or any other CP/M
computer.

For the most part - there are exceptions. Timing loops will need to be tweaked to suit each processor's clock speed, as timing is all done from the processor clock, and anything that accesses hardware directly is likely to be dependent on the specific machine, and not work on any other CP/M machine.

I once ported a Morse code practice program that I originally wrote on the PC to a friend's Microbee. I had to replace the sound/timing procedures Delay() and Sound() that are built into the PC version of Turbo Pascal 3, but not CP/M.
My friend coded these routines in assembler, after we worked out the necessary timing loops together. We kept the names of the built in routines, so that the rest of the code could be used unchanged.

That would also explain why some programs came with prog80.com and prog86.com for the two different versions.

Thanks everyone for the explanations :)

You're welcome.


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Google told me you can run CP/M on a C128, but I don't think
that's Z80 based.

According to David Murray...the 128 had 3 different processors. Had
a 6502-ish for running C64 software. Can't remember the processor which ran native 128 programs. Commodore put a Z80 on board to run

Hey thanks, that was really interesting.

NP. Love his videos...especially the retro ones.

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On 04-06-20 11:16, Oli wrote to apam <=-

So, really, there's CP/M for Z80 and CP/M-86 for 8086?

.... and for the 68000 too, but not many programs for it. There was

I didn't know about the 68000 version of CP/M

also a multi-user CP/M called MP/M.

That one I knew of, but never seen it in the wild.

http://www.cpm.z80.de/

This looks interesting, if you want to go the emulation path:

https://gitlab.com/gbrein/tnylpo
https://github.com/MockbaTheBorg/RunCPM

Last time I ran emulation was on a PC running a V20 chip, which could run 8080 code in hardware. Some CP/M programs would run on it - i.e. those that didn't use Z80 instructions that weren't part of the 8080 instruction set.


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Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

I don't tend to use it, I've never had much in the way of software for it,
but I have a MS-Sofcard clone in a IIe...

Spec


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From my very limited memore, the Microbee computers ran CP/M.

I believe you're right there. Used to have a bee network with 2 floppy
drives on it at highscool for a bit.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
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Hello Vk3jed!

06 Apr 20 17:43, you wrote to me:

built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80
CPUs.

From my very limited memory, the Microbee computers ran CP/M.

That's correct, a friend had a Microbee when I first moved out of
home, and it definitely ran CP/M. I even wrote software for it using

I thought they did. It was when being a teenager that I encounterd one, and it was only a couple of hours.

For those in other countries, a quick goog search:


https://www.microbeetechnology.com.au/


About Us / History
Before the beginning:
The roots of microbee were laid by an electronic components outlet Applied technology Pty Ltd who developed kit sets for the electronics enthusiasts market. It was suggested to Applied Technology at the time that a compact,
easy to use computer was required for use in schools. Codenamed 'Edcom' the original microbee kit computer had its core design based on Z80 S-100
systems that had been developed and a video circuit designed (once again as
a S-100 card) by David Griffiths. The name 'Microbee' came into being after
a visit to the N.S.W. eduction department by Owen Hill & Matthew Starr who decided that the education computer needed a name that would not only be easy to remember, but something that would also seem friendly within the school environment.

The beginning:
The microbee came out as a kit computer with the option to have the kit sets built & tested for an extra amount. Due to the large demand for pre-assembled kits & the microbee winning the N.S.W. education computer contract (along with Apple), Microbees started rolling out of the factory fully assembled & tested. A new case was introduced and the microbee came out with the [previously] optional parallel port & a speed upgrade from 2Mhz to 3.375Mhz and full 80 x 24
character mode support. Very soon afterwards a 56k CP/M disk based machine was released







Vorlon


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On 04-07-20 15:01, Vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

That's correct, a friend had a Microbee when I first moved out of
home, and it definitely ran CP/M. I even wrote software for it using

I thought they did. It was when being a teenager that I encounterd one, and it was only a couple of hours.

They were a decent machne in their day too. Only issue was the plastic case made them radiators of RF, not good for those who ran HF radio. :) But computing nice, they were a nice machine.


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On 04-07-20 03:38, Spectre wrote to apam <=-

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

I don't tend to use it, I've never had much in the way of software for
it, but I have a MS-Sofcard clone in a IIe...

I have a MS Softcard as well. :)


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apam wrote to All <=-

Does anyone use CP/M running on a Z80? Besides the RC2014 based kits I built, I'm unsure of what retro computers ran CP/M with Z80 CPUs.

My TRS-80 Model 4P can run CP/M.


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Vk3jed wrote to garycrunk <=-

There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the IBM/Microsoft
deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

Didn't they make an Intel 8080 version of CP/M?

When I was looking for software for my RC2014, I thought I saw references to a CP/M-80 (and it didn't mean "Z80").

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On 04-07-20 11:24, Dr. What wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Vk3jed wrote to garycrunk <=-

There was CP/M for the 8086/88, called CP/M-86, but the IBM/Microsoft
deal with MS-DOS kept CP/M-86 out of the PC market.

Didn't they make an Intel 8080 version of CP/M?

yes, though from what I believe, at the binary level, the 8080 instruction set is a subset of the Z80, though the assembler syntax was different.


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Hello Spectre!

07 Apr 20 03:40, you wrote to me:

From my very limited memory, the Microbee computers ran CP/M.

I believe you're right there. Used to have a bee network with 2
floppy drives on it at highscool for a bit.

See my previous message, with a little bit of history.




Vorlon


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Hello Vk3jed!

07 Apr 20 19:58, you wrote to me:

That's correct, a friend had a Microbee when I first moved out of
home, and it definitely ran CP/M. I even wrote software for it
using

I thought they did. It was when being a teenager that I
encounterd one, and it was only a couple of hours.

They were a decent machne in their day too. Only issue was the
plastic case made them radiators of RF, not good for those who ran HF radio. :) But computing nice, they were a nice machine.

A lot of them from back then had just plastic cases, and/or a metal RF sheild. My C64 had one, the Amiga 600 I'm restoring has one.



Vorlon


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On 04-08-20 22:43, Vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

A lot of them from back then had just plastic cases, and/or a metal RF sheild. My C64 had one, the Amiga 600 I'm restoring has one.

I don't remember seeing a shield in the Microbee.


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it, but I have a MS-Sofcard clone in a IIe...

I have a MS Softcard as well. :)

I always pereferred the PCPI Appli-Card myself.. 64k on board, that can be
used as a ramcard when not in z80, also had a 128k ramcard that could be used as a ramdisk. Never saw the extension card though. And it ran at 6Mhz off hand...

Spec


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I don't remember seeing a shield in the Microbee.

Might've been an early one, I have recollection of a thin metal shield in the top half....

Spec


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On 04-08-20 12:21, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

it, but I have a MS-Sofcard clone in a IIe...

I have a MS Softcard as well. :)

I always pereferred the PCPI Appli-Card myself.. 64k on board, that can
be used as a ramcard when not in z80, also had a 128k ramcard that
could be used as a ramdisk. Never saw the extension card though. And
it ran at 6Mhz off hand...

Sounds like a nice card. Don't recall seeing one though. One thing I do like about the MS Softcard is the manual was very old school, full of technical details that never get mentioned these days. :)


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On 04-11-20 22:08, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I don't remember seeing a shield in the Microbee.

Might've been an early one, I have recollection of a thin metal shield
in the top half....

Yeah I don't know how long he's had it, but it radiated RF crud much worse than my homebuilt XT clone did. :/ Used to frustate him as well.


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Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I don't remember seeing a shield in the Microbee.

Might've been an early one, I have recollection of a thin metal shield
in the top half....

You'd need some shielding like that to get FCC certified. I used to work in
a Mac software house in the '90s, and we'd get seed units to play with long before they made it to market. Most of them had "NOT FCC CERTIFIED" stickers on them, and put out a ton of RF crap.


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