Just might be my next hardware purchase.

https://youtu.be/XFrJcjCbCA8 --Is a nice video with the Frameworks designers demoing the product pretty deeply.

Its a fully modular, upgradeable and repairable laptop. All hardware on the inside is modular and the on thing that is one-piece is the main board that contains the processor. Built on Tiger Lake in the first iteration, all hardware other than the CPU/main board is easily swappable.

Furthermore, there are no "ports" on this laptop. There are, however, 4 port bays where you can add modules for what you need. They are basically USB-3 receptacles that you can slot in USB modules; USB-C, HDMI, STORAGE, USB-A, etc etc. You order the port modules that you want your laptop to have.

They are going to sell a barebones model for $750 - you just have to bring your own storage and memory. I think this is a great deal, and while it might not be a gaming laptop, this is going to be a completely capable machine for what I need in a laptop.

Two other cool features are that... when you open the laptop, theres a single connector that is easily removable and the top portion (keyboard and other modules) disconnects fully. Underneath you can remove the battery with 3 screws and replace. M2 / 2.5" drives, b00m. Need more memory? bang!

and.. when new processors come out, Framework intends on selling a new main board and so long as theres no other hardware changes, like different memory, you can just change the main board and upgrade the processor. In my opinion, this is the laptop that we've needed for decades. And hopefully will last that long too, with repair and upgrading being so accesible.

Have you heard of Framework? What do you think? Would you be interested?



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/05/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..
By: paulie420 to All on Thu May 20 2021 01:06 pm

and.. when new processors come out, Framework intends on selling a new main board and so long as
theres no other hardware changes, like different memory, you can just change the main board and
upgrade the processor. In my opinion, this is the laptop that we've needed for decades. And
hopefully will last that long too, with repair and upgrading being so accesible.

Have you heard of Framework? What do you think? Would you be interested?

A laptop you can maintain and upgrade as if it was a workstation sounds great.

I am not a fan of having the modules be plugged to USB buses, but you can do worse than that.

Now the only issue is that I can buy a used laptop for 100-200 USD that will last 2 years vs
Framework which I'd estimate to last 4 years before needing additional investment in
maintenance/upgrades. So I'd consider used hardware to be still more cost effective than a laptop
like this for low end tasks - which is what most people does nowadays.

For not-low end tasks the Framework sounds interesting.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Have you heard of Framework? What do you think? Would you be interested

A laptop you can maintain and upgrade as if it was a workstation sounds great.

+1

I am not a fan of having the modules be plugged to USB buses, but you
can do worse than that.

Well... this seems kinda like their 'proprietary' spin - or ONE way that they can sell you some accessories... and basically what it is is USB-C connections converted to these 'modules'... so I guess they could have just thrown on 4 USB-Cs... hell, I guess that WOULD have been a better option... but I kinda dig this. Mainly because, and yes you'd be paying them but...., you can purchase 5-6 modules and switch and swap them quickly when you need.

One of their modules is eMMC storage, that you could install your entire system on, or AN entire system, and it would be removeable... anyway, although I don't LOVE this - they could have done it worse - and for a company giving me EVERYTHING else that I want, I don't mind supporting them by over purchasing these dongle/modules.

What did you think about the rest? The youtube video I posted was a pretty good run-down of the product. I just don't know how available they are. I know they made their kickstarter and are supposedly beyond that now. If this becomes a normal 'buy today' product, I think I'm IN.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/05/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Have you heard of Framework? What do you think? Would you be interested?

I haven't heard of Framework, but I find the concept interesting.

But I also found the concept interesting all the other times such things have been tried, whether with computers, PDAs, or random other devices.

But they never seem to stick around all that long or sell all that well.

Still, I might be in the market for a new laptop, and the concept is interesting.

On the other hand, I have both added memory and changed the battery on my current laptop. But I think that's the end of reasonable upgrades to the device, and I'm not quite sure what to do about some of my keys no longer working (I think some bit overheated and broke something).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Re: Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Thu May 20 2021 05:58 pm

Well... this seems kinda like their 'proprietary' spin - or ONE way that they can sell you some
accessories... and basically what it is is USB-C connections converted to these 'modules'... so
guess they could have just thrown on 4 USB-Cs... hell, I guess that WOULD have been a better
option... but I kinda dig this. Mainly because, and yes you'd be paying them but...., you can
purchase 5-6 modules and switch and swap them quickly when you need.

One of their modules is eMMC storage, that you could install your entire system on, or AN entire
system, and it would be removeable... anyway, although I don't LOVE this - they could have done
worse - and for a company giving me EVERYTHING else that I want, I don't mind supporting them by
over purchasing these dongle/modules.

What did you think about the rest? The youtube video I posted was a pretty good run-down of the
product. I just don't know how available they are. I know they made their kickstarter and are
supposedly beyond that now. If this becomes a normal 'buy today' product, I think I'm IN.

My concern with USB buses is engineering and performance, mostly. I am not worried for vendor
lock-in because the interface is so standard that it looks easy for a third party to build
compatible modules.

No Youtube here, so I didn't watch the video. Sorry :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hello Arelor!

** On Friday 21.05.21 - 03:24, Arelor wrote to paulie420:

Re: Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..

My concern with USB buses is engineering and performance,
mostly. I am not worried for vendor lock-in because the
interface is so standard that it looks easy for a third
party to build compatible modules.

No Youtube here, so I didn't watch the video. Sorry :-)

There is a plain webside with stills and descriptions. It's not
bad.

https://frame.work/


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Hello paulie420!

** On Thursday 20.05.21 - 13:06, paulie420 wrote to All:

Just might be my next hardware purchase.

https://youtu.be/XFrJcjCbCA8 --Is a nice video with the
Frameworks designers demoing the product pretty deeply.

Its a fully modular, upgradeable and repairable laptop. All
hardware on the inside is modular and the on thing that is
one-piece is the main board that contains the processor.
Built on Tiger Lake in the first iteration, all hardware
other than the CPU/main board is easily swappable.

Sounds like a Thinkpad!

Furthermore, there are no "ports" on this laptop. There
are, however, 4 port bays where you can add modules for
what you need. They are basically USB-3 receptacles that
you can slot in USB modules; USB-C, HDMI, STORAGE, USB-A,
etc etc. You order the port modules that you want your
laptop to have.

OK. *That's* different.

I'm currently debating whether to bother opening an iMac 24"
(circa 2006) to investigate the fans. Apparently there are 3 of
them: 1 for the cpu, 1 for the hdd, and 1 for the optical
drive.

I've got pretty much all the help I can hope for here:

https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac_Intel_24%22_EMC_2111

..but it's still a lot of disassembly steps.

(I believe you are familiar with my lament about this imac on
Meatlotion's matix channel)

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Adept wrote to paulie420 <=-

On the other hand, I have both added memory and changed the battery on
my current laptop. But I think that's the end of reasonable upgrades to the device, and I'm not quite sure what to do about some of my keys no longer working (I think some bit overheated and broke something).

Keyboards. While the latest trend in ultrabooks makes it easy to upgrade the memory, battery and storage by removing a few screws to remove the bottom, replacing the keyboard is a pain in the ass.

With the old chunky Thinkpads, getting them apart was a little tricky, but
the keyboard and palm rest/trackpad were easily replaceable.


... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Adept wrote to paulie420 <=-

On the other hand, I have both added memory and changed the battery on
my current laptop. But I think that's the end of reasonable upgrades to the device, and I'm not quite sure what to do about some of my keys no longer working (I think some bit overheated and broke something).

Depending on the laptop it might not be hard or expensive to replace
the keyboard. My son-in-law gave me a Dell N5110 that he is no longer
using. Only part of the keyboard is working. For $13.95 I can get a new keyboard on Ebay and swapping out this keyboard is quick and easy. You
would have to peak on the web to see if your laptop would be easily
servicable in this area.

... Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS 21:1/194 bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)

keyboard on Ebay and swapping out this keyboard is quick and easy. You would have to peak on the web to see if your laptop would be easily servicable in this area.

Thanks to you and Poindexter Fortran for the advice, as it is definitely something I should look into. It's not an ultra-thin anything, so replacing
the keyboard without sending it away does seem like it's plausible.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Just might be my next hardware purchase.
https://youtu.be/XFrJcjCbCA8

Sounds like a Thinkpad!

Lol... thats the problem, my ThinkPad T430s machines are becoming a bit long in the tooth. I guess I could limp along with them for another year; but... they are getting there.

OK. *That's* different.

The Framework hardware looks really intriguing to me... but they're brand new; if they were a few years old and going strong I wouldn't think twice. However, for around $750-999, I'm really considering them.

I'm currently debating whether to bother opening an iMac 24"
(circa 2006) to investigate the fans. Apparently there are 3 of
them: 1 for the cpu, 1 for the hdd, and 1 for the optical
drive.
I've got pretty much all the help I can hope for here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac_Intel_24%22_EMC_2111
..but it's still a lot of disassembly steps.

Yea, I own a 2018 iMac and have had other machines. I think the thing to do with these systems is... sell when they're still worth something decent and buy the new model. :P

Since yours is older, I wouldn't be adverse to cracking it open - unless, of course, its working perfectly... :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/05/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Hello Ogg.

21 May 21 07:28, you wrote to Arelor:

Hello Arelor!

** On Friday 21.05.21 - 03:24, Arelor wrote to paulie420:

Re: Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..

My concern with USB buses is engineering and performance,
mostly. I am not worried for vendor lock-in because the
interface is so standard that it looks easy for a third
party to build compatible modules.

No Youtube here, so I didn't watch the video. Sorry :-)

There is a plain webside with stills and descriptions. It's not
bad.

https://frame.work/

wow. sexy expansion cards! i love this

Daniel

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)

*** Quoting poindexter FORTRAN from a message to Adept ***

Keyboards. While the latest trend in ultrabooks makes it easy to
upgrade the memory, battery and storage by removing a few screws to remove the bottom, replacing the keyboard is a pain in the ass.

With the old chunky Thinkpads, getting them apart was a little
tricky, but the keyboard and palm rest/trackpad were easily
replaceable.

Yes! I love this about the thinkpads & the HP elitebooks. Replacing the keyboard is a 5 minute job. I can't tell you how many times someone has come to my desk with a laptop missing a bunch of keys: "My cat/dog ran across my lap and keys went flying everywhere!"

We had a couple of spare keyboards in stock for just such an occasion. I remember one lady was astonished that I was able to: A. Repair it at all &
B. That it could be repaired that quickly.

Haven't had to do a trackpad yet, which surprises me now that I think about it.


Jay

... I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the Enterprise

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
* Origin: Northern Realms | 289-424-5180 | bbs.nrbbs.net (21:3/110)

Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..
By: Ogg to Arelor on Fri May 21 2021 07:28 am

Hello Arelor!

** On Friday 21.05.21 - 03:24, Arelor wrote to paulie420:

Re: Re: Framework's Modular Laptop..

My concern with USB buses is engineering and performance,
mostly. I am not worried for vendor lock-in because the
interface is so standard that it looks easy for a third
party to build compatible modules.

No Youtube here, so I didn't watch the video. Sorry :-)

There is a plain webside with stills and descriptions. It's not
bad.

https://frame.work/

Thanks for the link.

It looks fine to me. If this ever got traction I would expect 3rd party modules to be produced for sure.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hello paulie420!

** On Friday 21.05.21 - 09:05, paulie420 wrote to Ogg:

Sounds like a Thinkpad!

Lol... thats the problem, my ThinkPad T430s machines are
becoming a bit long in the tooth. I guess I could limp
along with them for another year; but... they are getting
there.

My 1st laptop was a refurbished T40p. I still have it. 40GB
HDD. But when I boot it up, it's still quite responsive. Only
the storage capacity sucks at this point. So, the plan is to
repurpose it as a local (offline) Spotify server connected to
my hi-fi sound system.

I would be able to control it from any other pc or my
Blackberry on the same network at home.

And it's a beautiful 4:3 factor 14" screen size making it easy
to transport outside the house to a DSL connection to get new
tunes.

The Framework hardware looks really intriguing to me... but
they're brand new; if they were a few years old and going
strong I wouldn't think twice. However, for around $750-
999, I'm really considering them.

That's still a lot of cash to drop on an unproven concept. But
it's probably cheaper than compared to the $400+ I dropped for
the used T40p above back in 2007 or so for an already 4yr old
laptop.

I'm currently debating whether to bother opening an iMac 24"
(circa 2006) to investigate the fans..

https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac_Intel_24%22_EMC_2111
..but it's still a lot of disassembly steps.

Yea, I own a 2018 iMac and have had other machines. I think
the thing to do with these systems is... sell when they're
still worth something decent and buy the new model. :P

That would be one plan, for sure. But I just found out that
Apple has a buy-back program. With the estimated value, you can
use it against other Apple products. Currently, they don't
take any Macs that pre-date 2010. But 2010 and onward is game.

Since yours is older, I wouldn't be adverse to cracking it
open - unless, of course, its working perfectly... :P

The ifixit site gives me confidence/hope that the fans might be
worthwhile replacing, the chassis interior cleaned out, and to
see if that removes the random REBOOT problem that's doing
after a few minutes of operation.

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

My 1st laptop was a refurbished T40p. I still have it. 40GB
HDD. But when I boot it up, it's still quite responsive. Only
the storage capacity sucks at this point. So, the plan is to
repurpose it as a local (offline) Spotify server connected to
my hi-fi sound system.

I've liked most ThinkPads through the years. I've used many.

That's still a lot of cash to drop on an unproven concept. But
it's probably cheaper than compared to the $400+ I dropped for
the used T40p above back in 2007 or so for an already 4yr old
laptop.

The i5 version is $750 barebones, but you have to bring your own nVME HDD and Memory.

I'm trying to figure out which processor I'd need:
i5-1135G7 $750
i7-1165G7 $1050
i7-1185G7 $1450

I'm really thinking about ordering one. Even if Framework, as a company, doesn't last the hardware is still really serviceable and could be repaired and upgraded much more than other laptops in the current market. The only think you'd lose is the ability to buy a new main board.

However, if Framework DOES work out and I could buy another main board in the future it really seems like a product that could last a decade. In my use case, anyway.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/05/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

*** Quoting poindexter FORTRAN from a message to Adept ***

Yes! I love this about the thinkpads & the HP elitebooks. Replacing
the keyboard is a 5 minute job. I can't tell you how many times
someone has come to my desk with a laptop missing a bunch of keys: "My cat/dog ran across my lap and keys went flying everywhere!"

At my job, departments paid for their own computers. I need to keep
computers up and running for 3 years, and people don't want a used computer.

Which gave us some interesting scenarios like upper management declaring
that all new hires would get a new computer, and in order to keep costs
down, used computers should go through a rotation first.

We're going to hire 500 interns, they should all have new computers, then
toss them into the used pile.

Then,

Why do you have so many computers in inventory?


I've gotten really good at refurbishing computers. Open it up, swap the keyboard if it's got bright marks, magic eraser the trackpad and the case,
and I'll be impressed if it looks anything but like-new - as long as the screen is OK.

We had a couple of spare keyboards in stock for just such an occasion.
I remember one lady was astonished that I was able to: A. Repair it at all & B. That it could be repaired that quickly.

Haven't had to do a trackpad yet, which surprises me now that I think about it.

Jay

... I've already got a female to worry about. Her name is the
Enterprise

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
* Origin: Northern Realms | 289-424-5180 | bbs.nrbbs.net (21:3/110)

... Is the style right?
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

BY: poindexter FORTRAN(21:4/122)


|11pF|09> |10We're going to hire 500 interns, they should all have new computers,|07
|11pF|09> |10then |07
|11pF|09> |10toss them into the used pile.|07
I think interns should get the reburbished computers. It would be more cost effective and enviromentally sensible.



--- WWIV 5.7.1.3510
* Origin: inland utopia * socal usa * iutopia.mooo.com:2023 (21:4/108)

Hello paulie420!

** On Friday 21.05.21 - 16:48, paulie420 wrote to Ogg:

The i5 version is $750 barebones, but you have to bring your own nVME HDD and Memory.

I'm trying to figure out which processor I'd need:
i5-1135G7 $750
i7-1165G7 $1050
i7-1185G7 $1450

Hey.. that part of the fun in the build.

I'm really thinking about ordering one. Even if Framework,
as a company, doesn't last the hardware is still really
serviceable and could be repaired and upgraded much more
than other laptops in the current market. The only think
you'd lose is the ability to buy a new main board.

I see that they have a community forum. As long as the
participants are genuine and not just employees, you ought to
get a good feel for what people are experiencing. But shouldn't
you wait until some people already get their order FIRST? :/

I see that they haven't shipped the first batch out yet.

However, if Framework DOES work out and I could buy another
main board in the future it really seems like a product
that could last a decade. In my use case, anyway.

I used be excited about upgrading an existing pc. I think the
first upgrade I made was some kind of extra chip in an PC AT to
help support the serial interface or something.

Then it was some kind of new ROM for my Supra 14.4 to turn it
into a 28.8.

Then it was a modest bit by bit upgrade for a then WinME pc
with an Nvidia EVGA card (128meg AGP 4) that worked only
briefly. :( I wanted the dual output and DVI for use in the
future.

BUT.. when I dual-booted that WinME pc to Ubuntu 7.10
1600x1200, 75Hz - the card worked beautifully.

Thus ended future expectations of fiddling with upgrades.
Eventually, I just wanted a stable system I could rely on and
get things done.

OH.. I did purchase a GA-586T2 PCI-ISA bus mobo (sans CPU)
socket 7 - kit. The plan was to re-fit an existing Win98
system with it (I don't remember now). It would have been my
first pc with USB ports. The board is beautiful to look at in
its clean factory fresh state! Sadly, it has no practical
application anymore. It must go to landfill - I guess.

--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

I see that they have a community forum. As long as the
participants are genuine and not just employees, you ought to
get a good feel for what people are experiencing. But shouldn't
you wait until some people already get their order FIRST? :/

Yea, batch 1 is supposed to be shipping/arriving in early June. With batch 2 in August... to preorder, I'd only 'lose' $100 as I'd be able to follow batch 1 prior to paying the balance.

I used be excited about upgrading an existing pc. I think the
first upgrade I made was some kind of extra chip in an PC AT to
help support the serial interface or something.

Then it was some kind of new ROM for my Supra 14.4 to turn it
into a 28.8.

Lol... I did one of these same upgrades; while I can't remember the exact one, it was one chip and changed the V.something to V.everything and went from 14.4 to 28.8. :P I had been on 2400 for a LONG time, and even 14.4 was awesome... but when I went up to 28.8, BBSing got a lot more fun.

Thus ended future expectations of fiddling with upgrades.
Eventually, I just wanted a stable system I could rely on and
get things done.

Same. I still run an iMac Pro for when I just need things to work easily - and I have several Linux systems that I've dialed in to run the other servers and systems that I've come to use daily. Home Automation, communications servers, BBS world, PLEX and NAS boxes... Linux runs the things I rely on - MacOS drives my 'standard computing' stuff.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/05/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)