I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations
you're participating in longer than necessary.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet? Or would you have to make a point for each Network?


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going
to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet? Or
would you have to make a point for each Network?

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/ I'm not being a dick, but... thats what the BBS is designed to do, lol. Right???

If you're going away just telnet into your BBS and read your FTNs.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to All on Mon Sep 14 2020 16:47:33

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

There's nothing stopping you from picking an unused zone number and setting up your own network and echomail conferences with as few as two systems, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for.

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

I'm not sure what would stop you from remotely accessing the BBS or downloading
mail packets. Many sysops don't even run their boards on a physically local machine.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet? Or would you have to make a point for each Network?

Points are just systems on the network hosted by listed nodes. A single system can be a point on multiple networks simultaneously in the same way one can be a
node on multiple networks. You could run a full point system on a phone but that's kind of overkill compared to an offline reader.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140.1)

Charles wrote (2020-09-14):

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going
to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet? Or
would you have to make a point for each Network?

The problem with the private network is that your messages would be originate from the wrong zone and would have an FTN from address that is not part of the public network (like 123:1/2 would be a wrong address in fsxnet). Of course there could be ways to rewrite the address and modify your mails, but I think configuring 4 point addresses is easier and less error prone (I wouldn't even know how to do the address rewriting).

Other options are:
- QWK offline reader
- NNTP for echomail

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Hi Oli

The problem with the private network is that your messages would be originate from the wrong zone and would have an FTN from address that is not part of the public network (like 123:1/2 would be a wrong address in fsxnet). Of course there could be ways to rewrite the address and modify your mails, but I think configuring 4 point addresses is easier and less error prone (I wouldn't even know how to do the address rewriting.

I was afraid of that. Something seeming a simple solution in my head being not
so simple in reality.

Other options are:
- QWK offline reader
- NNTP for echomail

I've tried NNTP, but I don't care for it for some reason.

QWK is nice, but I've yet to see it available as an app on Android.

Telnet is an option as well, but I haven't seen many Telnet apps that work well
for me on Android either.

Ahh the joys of combining old and new.


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 09-14-20 16:47, Charles Pierson wrote to All <=-

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you
are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

It's quite easy, but... the extra information changes everything.

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going
to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

A private network isn't really going to help here.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of
the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet?
Or would you have to make a point for each Network?

Just make a point for each network, but there is an even easier way...

Why not simply use QWK(E) or Bluewave? They're designed for this situation! :)


... If I had been present at creation, I would have given some useful hints. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-14-20 18:04, paulie420 wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/
I'm not being a dick, but... thats what the BBS is designed to do, lol. Right???

If you're going away just telnet into your BBS and read your FTNs.

I log into mine and download QWK packets. :) I actually have a Linux netbook that's setup for BBSing - it has SyncTerm and Multimail.


... A pill a day keeps the stork away.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to Oli on Tue Sep 15 2020 03:28 am

Telnet is an option as well, but I haven't seen many Telnet apps that work

well for

on Android either.

This is what I hate of smartphones. So much hardware power and they can't get proper
communication software running on them. Pathetic.

If you are on Android, maybe you can run some telnet client on Termux? You can probably have kermit work inside.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hello Charles!

** On Tuesday 15.09.20 - 03:28, Charles Pierson wrote to Oli:

Other options are:
- QWK offline reader
- NNTP for echomail

I've tried NNTP, but I don't care for it for some reason.

QWK is nice, but I've yet to see it available as an app on Android.

Telnet is an option as well, but I haven't seen many Telnet apps that
work well for me on Android either.

Ahh the joys of combining old and new.

Or.. you could ask Stas if he would attach the Telgram bot for
the echos you desire. Then you could use Telegram Messenger
with your Android device. That could be a lot of preliminary
work for him to accommodate your different nets, but it might
inspire him to build othernet considerations in the code.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.46
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going
to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

I'm in no way answering your question, but for this particular use case, why wouldn't you just telnet in and use the BBS?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/

...I feel bad for answering the same thing after you. :)

I suppose this does dovetail into the, "Why BBSs?" discussion fairly well.
Why wouldn't we all just call into one or two other BBSs, rather than
spending all the time and energy on running our own?

So, why not have an overly complicated solution for a problem that has a
simple solution? It seems like it'd be entertaining to try.

And maybe those of us who've chosen to be sysops are a different sort, in one way or another.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Howdy,

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of
the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet?
Or would you have to make a point for each Network?

Just make a point for each network, but there is an even easier way...


Why not simply use QWK(E) or Bluewave? They're designed for this

situation! :)

I know that's the easiest. Unfortunately, in they specific situation I'm thinking of, I was thinking more of access with phone for tablet. I don't know
of any apps for QWK or Bluewave on such devices.



--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 09-14-20 18:04, paulie420 wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/
I'm not being a dick, but... thats what the BBS is designed to do, lol.
Right???

If I had a mobile device which had a decent Telnet program an offline reader of course. I've always preferred replying in message bases in that fashion.

However I am considering my current situation. my only mobile device is my phone. Telnet programs I have tried I'm not real happy with, and I'm not for sure they have the DL capabilities vfor Qwk packets. Nor am I familiar with any offline readers for Android.

I do have a couple of old Nook devices. Ancient, from before they became Android. I recall reading somewhere that you could convert them into Unix or other things. I might experiment with that.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to Oli on Tue Sep 15 2020 03:28 am

Telnet is an option as well, but I haven't seen many Telnet apps that work
well for on Android either.

This is what I hate of smartphones. So much hardware power and they can't get proper communication software running on them. Pathetic.

Well, to an extent you're right. There are 2 Point software apps I can find for
FTN networks. Aftershock, which I am using here, and HotdogEd. as far as I know, this one is no longer supported, and only allows a single point/node connection at a time.

HotdogEd I like better, it has more of the feel like an offline mail reader, and in theory, it's still supported. Unfortunately it was designed specifically for Fido, I believe, so does weird things with Networks that have more than single digit zones. I contacted the author about it more than once, and basically get the reply that he's to busy to work on that.

If I were better at coding, I'd like to dabble with some Linux software to try
and tweak it to work in an Android environment. But that's a long term goal at
best.

If you are on Android, maybe you can run some telnet client on Termux? You can probably have kermit work inside.

I've tried some Telnet on the Android. It's a little clunky to me but it works. Thee problem is no offline mail capabilities.


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Howdy Ogg

Or.. you could ask Stas if he would attach the Telgram bot for
the echos you desire. Then you could use Telegram Messenger
with your Android device. That could be a lot of preliminary
work for him to accommodate your different nets, but it might
inspire him to build othernet considerations in the code.

I'm actually working with Stas on that over on Fido. I ask a lot of questions to him. It would also mean a lot of work on his end getting with the various moderators and what have you on the various networks for permission to set it up.

From what I understand, it wouldn't be too difficult on the bot side of the gateway at this point for more networks. I think mostly bit would be a matter of the host system setting up the various networks and echos.

--
../|ug

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

I'm in no way answering your question, but for this particular use case, why wouldn't you just telnet in and use the BBS?

I've answered it elsewhere, but as Android is my only mobile option currently, it's doable but limited.

And honestly, I've always preferred an offline reader type option with message bases.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Charles Pierson wrote to paulie429 <=-

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/
I'm not being a dick, but... thats what the BBS is designed to do, lol.
Right???

If I had a mobile device which had a decent Telnet program an
offline reader of course. I've always preferred replying in
message bases in that fashion.

However I am considering my current situation. my only mobile
device is my phone. Telnet programs I have tried I'm not real
happy with, and I'm not for sure they have the DL capabilities
vfor Qwk packets. Nor am I familiar with any offline readers for
Android.

You said it was for a "few days"...

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's
actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

On 15 Sep 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...

If I had a mobile device which had a decent Telnet program an offline reader of course. I've always preferred replying in message bases in
that fashion.

If you dont mind plain old DOS, some dosbox packages for android like Magic DosBox have working telnet-serial emulation and can be used with traditional terminals and offline readers.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140)

Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to Arelor on Tue Sep 15 2020 10:17:45

I've tried some Telnet on the Android. It's a little clunky to me but it

works. Thee problem is no

offline mail capabilities.

There is no good option for textmode BBSing on a modern smartphone that I'm aware of. It can be accomplished, but it's not tolerable for more than a couple
of minutes. I cannot imagine reading a significant number of messages that way,
let alone posting one or playing a game. The display sucks. The input method sucks.

A purpose-built offline QWK mailer would probably be the best/most flexible solution. It would at least allow for comfortable display and editing, without lag.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

echicken wrote (2020-09-15):

There is no good option for textmode BBSing on a modern smartphone that
I'm aware of.

golded and gossiped works fine via ssh or mosh (termux) ;). for unstable connections mosh is great.


* Origin: (21:3/102)

Re: Networks
By: Oli to echicken on Tue Sep 15 2020 21:44:26

golded and gossiped works fine via ssh or mosh (termux) ;). for unstable

connections mosh is great.

My experience has been that terminal applications look like garbage on smartphone screens, and that text entry / editing is excruciating. Sure, it works, but from a usability perspective it sucks ass in a huge way.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

If that were me, I would just login to said BBS and read the FTNs. :/

...I feel bad for answering the same thing after you. :)

I suppose this does dovetail into the, "Why BBSs?" discussion fairly well. Why wouldn't we all just call into one or two other BBSs, rather than spending all the time and energy on running our own?

Because it's fun?

So, why not have an overly complicated solution for a problem that has a simple solution? It seems like it'd be entertaining to try.

I didn't really consider the idea as overly complicated. I did kind of blow off
the facts about different network numbers and the like as far as messages going
downstream.

And maybe those of us who've chosen to be sysops are a different sort, in one way or another.

I'm different for sure. But I'm also trying to figure bout ways to make a thing
I love work in the ever advancing technology world.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

If I had a mobile device which had a decent Telnet program an offline reader of course. I've always preferred replying in message bases in
that fashion.

However I am considering my current situation. my only mobile device is
my phone. Telnet programs I have tried I'm not real happy with, and I'm not for sure they have the DL capabilities vfor Qwk packets. Nor am I familiar with any offline readers for Android.

I do have a couple of old Nook devices. Ancient, from before they became Android. I recall reading somewhere that you could convert them into
Unix or other things. I might experiment with that.

Ok, Charles - I understand a bit more now. I hope you find info on your original question that helps you get the messages you want while you're away. Since I'm not so technical at the FTNs I guess I'd be stuck with a telnet client on whatever device (phone) I had - I do know that xqtr (Another Dr01d BBS) has a text-theme available that you can install on an install of
Mystic.. which allows almost any device to connect, even thru regular old telnet and get text out that is readable...

That might be one option...

Or gosh, for $50 you could use a Raspberry Pi while your away. Any television in a hotel could be connected - but this is probably an option you already
know about. I suppose my best advice is the text-theme that I mentioned
above, as that would at least allow you to view and read FTNs more easily
from any old device you have.

Sorry I'm not better informed to help out!



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

You said it was for a "few days"...

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.

LOL, in this instance I think this is the best advice given so far. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

Quoting Charles Pierson to paulie429 <=-

I do have a couple of old Nook devices. Ancient, from before they
became Android. I recall reading somewhere that you could convert
them into Unix or other things. I might experiment with that.

I used to use a cheap chromebook. Installed dosbox on it for bluewave
and somehow crammed a zmodem telnet client on it for transfering
packets. (You can also get packets emailed daily from some systems)

chromebook cost me like $120 or something CAD.

Shawn

... Zucchini: Dense, flavourless vegetable, useful as ballast.

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - telnet://tinysbbs.com:3023 (21:1/130)

On 09-15-20 09:41, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I know that's the easiest. Unfortunately, in they specific situation
I'm thinking of, I was thinking more of access with phone for tablet.
I don't know of any apps for QWK or Bluewave on such devices.

Yeah, that's not available, sadly, because QWK would be a good fit here. In my opinion, a better fit than Aftershock or HotDogEd.


... 82.6% of statistics are wrong...
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-15-20 12:12, Static wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

On 15 Sep 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...

If I had a mobile device which had a decent Telnet program an offline reader of course. I've always preferred replying in message bases in
that fashion.

If you dont mind plain old DOS, some dosbox packages for android like Magic DosBox have working telnet-serial emulation and can be used with traditional terminals and offline readers.

Still a bit clunky, but perhaps workable, if you have a Bluetooth keyboard, so you can run the phone in landscape mode. :)


... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-16-20 08:59, Tiny wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

Quoting Charles Pierson to paulie429 <=-

I do have a couple of old Nook devices. Ancient, from before they
became Android. I recall reading somewhere that you could convert
them into Unix or other things. I might experiment with that.

I used to use a cheap chromebook. Installed dosbox on it for
bluewave
and somehow crammed a zmodem telnet client on it for transfering
packets. (You can also get packets emailed daily from some systems)

I acquired a bunch of surplus Lenovo netbooks from schools. Found they run fine with Lubuntu installed, and from there it was a simple matter of adding SyncTerm and Multimail. :)

I actually do have a setup on my Android phone with MagicDOSBox, Telix and Bluewave, but it is really clunky to use. Have to use it in portrait mode, so the keyboard doesn't obscure the display. But it might be OK with a Bluetooth keyboard and running in landscape.


... Is this some conspiracy to make me look paranoid?
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Quoting Charles Pierson to paulie429 <=-

I do have a couple of old Nook devices. Ancient, from before they
became Android. I recall reading somewhere that you could convert
them into Unix or other things. I might experiment with that.

I used to use a cheap chromebook. Installed dosbox on it for bluewave
and somehow crammed a zmodem telnet client on it for transfering
packets. (You can also get packets emailed daily from some systems)

I need to go check my shed. I had a bunch of random parts and components of old machines, including a couple of old 486 towers that at one point in their history were network servers. but much of that was lost when an old willow tree lost a limb and smashed an older shed. But I believe I might have an old laptop that survived.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Yeah, that's not available, sadly, because QWK would be a good fit here.

In my

opinion, a better fit than Aftershock or HotDogEd.

It would. Actually I do like HotdogEd, other than the issues I mentioned earlier, and the fact it doesn't handle ANSI or being cable to auto generate taglines.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

If you dont mind plain old DOS, some dosbox packages for android like
Magic DosBox have working telnet-serial emulation and can be used with
traditional terminals and offline readers.

Still a bit clunky, but perhaps workable, if you have a Bluetooth

keyboard, so

you can run the phone in landscape mode. :)

I need more practice. Those emulator packages and I haven't gotten along so well.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

I acquired a bunch of surplus Lenovo netbooks from schools. Found they

run

fine with Lubuntu installed, and from there it was a simple matter of

adding

SyncTerm and Multimail. :)

When I was in school, most of the schools had Apple IIs in some flavor. My public high school felt I was enjoying myself just a little bit too much so invited me to not return after my 10th grade year. My parents enrolled me into
private Lutheran School, on a scholarship I'm sure. They used C=64s,. which was great for me, as it's what I had at home, and I never liked Apple computers
even back then.

My grandchildren wind up with iPads from school now.


I actually do have a setup on my Android phone with MagicDOSBox, Telix and

Bluewave, but it is really clunky to use. Have to use it in portrait

mode, so

the keyboard doesn't obscure the display. But it might be OK

with a Bluetooth

keyboard and running in landscape.

I have a Bluetooth keyboard my stepdaughter gave me when she got a new one. I just haven't used it much yet, because I forget to connect it.




--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Charles Pierson wrote to All <=-

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you
are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're going
to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of
the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet?
Or would you have to make a point for each Network?

You could cobble something together, but a QWK reader would be much
more seamless. Add to it that if you have any networks with activity
on them, like FSXnet, trying to keep up with a couple of days' worth
of messages can be cumbersome. With a QWK reader you can scan through
messages and enter/edit at your leisure.

I've done something similar with an Android tablet, DOSBOX and my
MultiMail environment.

When I went on trips in the '90s for work on my own, I used to love
resetting my newscan pointers a day or two ago, download a big QWK
packet, and spend time waiting in the airport and on the plane
playing catchup. Download a new packet from the hotel and read on -
it's always nice being able to have uninterrupted BBS time - it
doesn't happen very often these days, traveling with family.





... The robots can go off-script?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Quoting Charles Pierson to All at 09-14-20 16:47 <=-

I have a question for the experts around here. is it possible if you
are running a BBS, to setup a Private FTN "network'?

For example, your bbs is on say 3 or 4 different network. You're
going to be away from your system for a few days, but don't want to
delay any conversations you're participating in longer than necessary.

Could you set up a pseudo network and make a point to connect all of
the various echoes you're in to follow them on your phone or tablet?
Or would you have to make a point for each Network?

The more practical choice for a Android phone is a good NNTP client
accessing your system by NNTP. I suggest Piaohong Usenet Reader for
Android.

On a PC or Laptop a QWK Offline Reader will be the best choice for
read/reply on multiples networks.



[]'s
³
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Mauro R. Veiga Ä abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * ÄÄÄÄÄÄ
³

MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... DEVICEHIGH: Your device driver on drugs.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: Ninho do Abutre 2 - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil * (21:1/181)

You could cobble something together, but a QWK reader would be much

more seamless. Add to it that if you have any networks with activity

on them, like FSXnet, trying to keep up with a couple of days' worth

of messages can be cumbersome. With a QWK reader you can scan through

messages and enter/edit at your leisure.

Yes, I know ideally QWK would be the way to go. But there unfortunately isn't a native QWK app for Android that I've discovered yet, and I haven't had too much luck with figuring out emulators.

Currently, I can manage Fido messages through HotdogEd, but other networks only
on Aftershock, which requires manually reconfiguring my network information for
whichever network I want to read. Painful to say the least.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

The more practical choice for a Android phone is a good NNTP client
accessing your system by NNTP. I suggest Piaohong Usenet Reader for
Android.

That's something I hadn't really considered. I theoretically have an NNTP client in HotdogEd. I've used it to access some Fido before.

NNTP has just been kind of a last resort option for me because of the mass of bots spamming crap in it in the past.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 09/16/2020 8:15 am Mauro Veiga said...

The more practical choice for a Android phone is a good NNTP client
accessing your system by NNTP. I suggest Piaohong Usenet Reader for
Android.

Any throughts on a good NNTP reader for iOS?



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; arm; 12.18.3)
* Origin: The Drunken Gamer (21:4/158)

Gamgee wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.

Didn't we all sign up for electronic servitude when we got our first
mailer license?


... Is this now?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Static wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

If you dont mind plain old DOS, some dosbox packages for android like Magic DosBox have working telnet-serial emulation and can be used with traditional terminals and offline readers.

I have a cheap old Android netbook that I've always wanted to get
working as a traveling node, but it's only running Gingerbread. You
could probably find one of the 7"-10" netbooks running KitKat for
under $100 and get it working as a remote DOS box.



... Is this now?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Tiny wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

I used to use a cheap chromebook. Installed dosbox on it for
bluewave and somehow crammed a zmodem telnet client on it for
transfering packets. (You can also get packets emailed daily
from some systems)

Is there a DOSBOX for Chromebook that supports telnet to serial
passthrough?

FYI, Synchronet lets you up/download QWK packets - log on with your
credentials, and upload <bbsname>.REP to transmit replies, or
download <bbsname>.QWK, and it'll create the file on the fly.


... Is this now?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Charles Pierson wrote to Tiny <=-

I need to go check my shed. I had a bunch of random parts and
components of old machines, including a couple of old 486 towers that
at one point in their history were network servers.

486-class systems are going up in price. You may be able to make some
money on any parts you've got.



... Into the impossible
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

If you dont mind plain old DOS, some dosbox packages for android like Magic DosBox have working telnet-serial emulation and can be used with traditional terminals and offline readers.

Still a bit clunky, but perhaps workable, if you have a Bluetooth keyboard,

you can run the phone in landscape mode. :)

Hmm, this is something I can try at some point.

... I have to admit.. this is a great Tagline!
--- Wildcat! v10.0.454.10 (May 26 2020), Editor Mod v2.1
* Origin: Omicron Theta * Southaven MS * winserver.org (21:2/136)

Gamgee wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's
actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.

Odd. I never saw Gamgee's message.

It's not a must, just a thing I like to do. But to be honest 90% of my social life beyond my wife, kids and grandkids is online. I have anxiety, and group situations tend to send me into major panic attacks. I've probably spoken more with the people on here in the week or so I've been set up on this network than
I have had in person conversations in a year.

Even if I only lurk, it is my way of seeing how people I know and care about are doing.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 16 Sep 2020 at 10:23p, Charles Pierson pondered and said...

social life beyond my wife, kids and grandkids is online. I have
anxiety, and group situations tend to send me into major panic attacks. I've probably spoken more with the people on here in the week or so I've been set up on this network than I have had in person conversations in a year.

I'm glad you feel comfortable to do so Charles :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

It's not a must, just a thing I like to do. But to be honest 90% of my social life beyond my wife, kids and grandkids is online. I have anxiety, and group situations tend to send me into major panic attacks. I've probably spoken more with the people on here in the week or so I've been set up on this network than I have had in person conversations in a year.

I'm not far from where your at. If I'm around 1 or 2 people, I'm not too bad, but any more than that, I feel the panic as well.

A lot of times, I end up having to just 'suck it up' and deal with it, which is
a real pain. Usually while I'm work I can tolerate it to a point.

My wife doesn't understand why I don't like going shopping with her at places like Walmart on Christmas Eve...
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Castle Rock II - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:4/200)

My experience has been that terminal applications look like garbage on smartphone screens, and that text entry / editing is excruciating. Sure, it works, but from a usability perspective it sucks ass in a huge way.

I have to concur. Completely useless unless you've got a seperate keyboard. I tried playing a mud like that too at one stage.... you'd only do it to try it, and find a real way to play/use it afterwards.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

On 17 Sep 2020 at 01:16a, Black Panther pondered and said...

I'm not far from where your at. If I'm around 1 or 2 people, I'm not too bad, but any more than that, I feel the panic as well.

A lot of times, I end up having to just 'suck it up' and deal with it, which is a real pain. Usually while I'm work I can tolerate it to a
point.

My wife doesn't understand why I don't like going shopping with her at places like Walmart on Christmas Eve...

I don't mind dealing with groups of people at work but there are no social connections with them outside of work. Most of my social connections would be immediate family, to a lesser extent family living afar, followed by friends I have made here.

I seem to be rather lousy at keeping up connections with people in the face
to face physical world. Something I've always thought I should do/be better
at but in the end am left wondering have I been beating myself over something that is not 'bad' after all but rather just 'is'.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Quoting poindexter FORTRAN to Tiny <=-

Is there a DOSBOX for Chromebook that supports telnet to serial passthrough?

No idea I never tried. The more I think about it the more I think I
used a hacked together linux install to run syncterm, but I can't
remember.

FYI, Synchronet lets you up/download QWK packets - log on with your credentials, and upload <bbsname>.REP to transmit replies, or
download <bbsname>.QWK, and it'll create the file on the fly.

There's that too.

Shawn

... Degeneration and evolution are not the same thing.

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - telnet://tinysbbs.com:3023 (21:1/130)

Quoting Vk3jed to Tiny <=-

I acquired a bunch of surplus Lenovo netbooks from schools. Found
they run fine with Lubuntu installed, and from there it was a simple matter of adding SyncTerm and Multimail. :)

Perfect. This laptop I bought for a couple hundred a few years ago,
some dell thing that is still nice and fast and even runs most games.
Just has a small SSD which I'm sure will be replaced with a larger one
as soon as I get around to doing it.

Shawn

... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - telnet://tinysbbs.com:3023 (21:1/130)

I'm not far from where your at. If I'm around 1 or 2 people, I'm not too bad, but any more than that, I feel the panic as well.

A lot of times, I end up having to just 'suck it up' and deal with it, which is a real pain. Usually while I'm work I can tolerate it to a point.

My wife doesn't understand why I don't like going shopping with her at places like Walmart on Christmas Eve...

My wife is much the same, although on some level she does get it. She doesn't like crowded stores either, but it doesn't send her into a panic.

But she's a much more social person than I am, so that part is usually lost on her.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

I seem to be rather lousy at keeping up connections with people in the face to face physical world. Something I've always thought I should do/be better at but in the end am left wondering have I been beating myself over something that is not 'bad' after all but rather just 'is'.

It's natural to do. By and large humans are social animals. Anyone who doesn't fit into that social mindset is looked at a strange. So it can cause you to doubt yourself.

But there are many reasons why a person might not be as social as other. Introverts, social anxiety, phobias, how/where you were raised... all can affect it.

Me, I have a near perfect storm. I'm naturally very intoverted. Several times
when they did those dumb tests I remember how surprised people were that I scored that highly.

I am the oldest of 5 children, and we moved a lot when I was a kid. 5 different
schools in two states between kindergarten and the 5th grade. It kind of made it pointless to make friends, since we were just going to move on. I don't blame anyone for that. My father got out of the military shortly after I was born, and was working and going to college to make a better life for his family.

Then I developed my mental health issues along the way. They just reinforced my natural inclinations.

About the only thing I don't have is any phobia.


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 09-16-20 07:45, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

It would. Actually I do like HotdogEd, other than the issues I
mentioned earlier, and the fact it doesn't handle ANSI or being cable
to auto generate taglines.

Now do we know any BBSers who are mobile app developers? ;)


... If(crash){grab_ankles();kiss_butt_goodbye();}
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-16-20 07:59, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

When I was in school, most of the schools had Apple IIs in some flavor.
My public high school felt I was enjoying myself just a little bit too much so invited me to not return after my 10th grade year. My parents enrolled me into
private Lutheran School, on a scholarship I'm sure. They used C=64s,. which was great for me, as it's what I had at home, and I never liked Apple computers even back then.

I'm a bit the opposite. I found certain aspects of the C64 a bit illogical, and preferred the Apples. :)

I have a Bluetooth keyboard my stepdaughter gave me when she got a new one. I just haven't used it much yet, because I forget to connect it.

I know that feeling. ;)


... Accuracy is our watchword -- we NEVER make misteaks!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-16-20 18:23, Robert Wolfe wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Still a bit clunky, but perhaps workable, if you have a Bluetooth keyboard,

you can run the phone in landscape mode. :)

Hmm, this is something I can try at some point.

I'd be curious how you go. :)


... "Time for some thrilling heroics."
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Re: Networks
By: Spectre to echicken on Wed Sep 16 2020 20:14:00

I have to concur. Completely useless unless you've got a seperate

keyboard. I tried playing a mud

like that too at one stage.... you'd only do it to try it, and find a real

way to play/use it

afterwards.

I think there's a proof-of-concept honeymoon period. You find an okay app, use your textmode thing, say "gee whiz, that's neato" and play with it for a bit. You look past the flaws for a while, because it's on a phone, after all. Then, slowly, quietly, and without even realizing it, you gravitate back toward using
these tools in a more comfortable way (ie. not on a phone).

With an external keyboard, I'm sure this is all doable - especially on a tablet
- but otherwise, it's miserable. And I refuse to believe anyone who claims otherwise. :)

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

On 09-16-20 07:45, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

It would. Actually I do like HotdogEd, other than the issues I
mentioned earlier, and the fact it doesn't handle ANSI or being cable
to auto generate taglines.

Now do we know any BBSers who are mobile app developers? ;)


They're around. But they have their own projects.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

I'm a bit the opposite. I found certain aspects of the C64 a bit

illogical,

and preferred the Apples. :)

I started with Tandy, and then C64. My brother's I think all went the Apple route,. I just never took to them.



--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

On 17 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I don't mind dealing with groups of people at work but there are no
social connections with them outside of work.

I'm exactly the same way. When I started at this job a lot of people would invite me out after work for a drink, I always came up with some lame excuse
as to why I couldn't. "I can't, I have plans with my cat..." ;)

Eventually they stopped asking, which was kind of a relief. I'm not sure
why, but I've always just kind of compartmentalized the people I work with vs the people I know outside of work.

Something I've always thought I should do/be better at but in the end am left wondering have I been beating myself over something that is not
'bad' after all but rather just 'is'.

I've come to accept that about myself. I still have a handful of friends
from high school, though we live nowhere near each other anymore. That actually seems to be enough. People can just be exhausting to me...

Jay

... Shout out to the people that don't know what the opposite of in is!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

On 17 Sep 2020, Black Panther said the following...

My wife doesn't understand why I don't like going shopping with her at places like Walmart on Christmas Eve...

That's me going to Costco on any given day. Now I will only go 30 or 45 minutes before closing during the week. It's just way too peopley in there
for my comfort level.

Jay

... I want to be cremated as it is my last hope for a smoking hot body

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to Charles Pierson on Thu Sep 17 2020 20:32:00

Now do we know any BBSers who are mobile app developers? ;)

I'm capable, although it's not a thing that I normally do.

I've been pondering over the past couple of days what might be the best approach.

One thing that's crossed my mind has been to develop a standard for a BBS web API, thus clients of various kinds (mobile apps, web front-ends, even desktop applications) could talk to any compliant system. Some concepts (around organization of message and file areas) are fairly common to all BBS software and could be mapped to this standard interface. If an attempt is made to keep it as RESTful as possible, there can be some flexibility between implementations.

This has the advantage over, say QWK or NNTP, of being able to possibly expose other BBS features (eg. chat).

Now, I could just invent this "standard" on my own and implement the back-end portion on Synchronet as an example, but it'd be great if it were something that other BBS packages might get on board with. Would be curious to hear people's thoughts on it.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

Quoting Charles Pierson to Mauro Veiga <=-

The more practical choice for a Android phone is a good NNTP client
accessing your system by NNTP. I suggest Piaohong Usenet Reader for
Android.

That's something I hadn't really considered. I theoretically have an
NNTP client in HotdogEd. I've used it to access some Fido before.

NNTP has just been kind of a last resort option for me because of the
mass of bots spamming crap in it in the past.

This is in open Usenet groups. On private areas from your system
don't occur. NNTP clients are more practical on cell phone. Try
Piahong Usenet reader.



[]'s
³
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Mauro R. Veiga Ä abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * ÄÄÄÄÄÄ
³

MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: Ninho do Abutre 2 - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil * (21:1/181)

Quoting Alpha to Mauro Veiga <=-

On 09/16/2020 8:15 am Mauro Veiga said...

The more practical choice for a Android phone is a good NNTP client
accessing your system by NNTP. I suggest Piaohong Usenet Reader for
Android.

Any throughts on a good NNTP reader for iOS?

Don't used iPhone. Try NEWSTAP.



[]'s
³
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Mauro R. Veiga Ä abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * ÄÄÄÄÄÄ
³

MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... File COLDBEER.CAN not found....operator not loaded!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: Ninho do Abutre 2 - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil * (21:1/181)

On 17 Sep 20 10:32:19, Charles Pierson said the following to Vk3Jed:

I'm a bit the opposite. I found certain aspects of the C64 a bit

illogical,

and preferred the Apples. :)

I started with Tandy, and then C64. My brother's I think all went the Apple route,. I just never took to them.

I had the Tandy 1000 TL3... my first DOS computer.

Atreyu

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)

I think there's a proof-of-concept honeymoon period. You find an okay

Yeah... ahhh no. I don't normally use my phone for anything other than SMS and phone calls. In fact until I couldnt I used to buy dumb phones :) So no, it got no honeymoon out of me. Lasted barely 5 mins, even with the seperate keyboard. A phone just isn't a data entry device... tablets aren't a lot better, although they're more readable.

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

I'm capable, although it's not a thing that I normally do.

I've been pondering over the past couple of days what might be the best approach.

One thing that's crossed my mind has been to develop a standard for a BBS web API, thus clients of various kinds (mobile apps, web front-ends, even desktop applications) could talk to any compliant system. Some concepts (around organization of message and file areas) are fairly common to all BBS software and could be mapped to this standard interface. If an attempt is made to keep it as RESTful as possible, there can be some flexibility between implementations.

This has the advantage over, say QWK or NNTP, of being able to possibly expose other BBS features (eg. chat).

Now, I could just invent this "standard" on my own and implement the back-end portion on Synchronet as an example, but it'd be great if it were something that other BBS packages might get on board with. Would be curious to hear people's thoughts on it.

I had to look some of that up. I've heard the terms but I'm not exactly familiar with what they are or do. It's a fascinating concept if I am understanding bit correctly, but is an entire new API necessary?

I'll admit, I miss some of the features of BBSes in the manner I am communicating now. I enjoy Doors on occasion, probably not enough to join a league. And I miss seeing the ANSI graphics, for example.

I really wish I did understand programming better. Ideally I'd like to be able
to adapt existing BBS software to an Android platform. I realize that Android is a much stripped down Linux, so direct adaptation isn't entirely possible. But point software is possible, so I would hope that a better Telnet is possible, or out there that I just haven't seen yet. As well as some sort of mail reader.

And I'm wandering all over on this message. I'll try more later when I can focus better.

And if the average person is





--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to echicken on Thu Sep 17 2020 13:24:54

I had to look some of that up. I've heard the terms but I'm not exactly

familiar with what they are

or do. It's a fascinating concept if I am understanding bit correctly, but

is an entire new API

necessary?

For the goal that I have in mind, yes, it'd be necessary. There are existing protocols that come close to the mark, but they might not be best suited for what I'm imagining.

I'll admit, I miss some of the features of BBSes in the manner I am

communicating now. I enjoy Doors

on occasion, probably not enough to join a league. And I miss seeing the

ANSI graphics, for example.

I'm very much a textmode BBS user, but I see the utility in mobile & web interfaces for BBSs as well. Neither would ever be my primary (or even frequent) means of accessing my system, but it's a nice option to have on occasion - and when I do use it, I want it to be good.

adaptation isn't entirely possible. But point software is possible, so I

would hope that a better

Telnet is possible, or out there that I just haven't seen yet. As well as

some sort of mail reader.

When you get right down to it, cramming an 80-column terminal and a touch keyboard onto the screen of a modern phone, in an appropriate font at a readable size, just doesn't produce a good result. It's not nice to look at, and it's not nice to type into. Text entry is generally not even as good as in a typical mobile app (autocorrect, word suggestions, word deletion, etc. are usually off the table).

Telnet, SSH, etc. is possible, can be done, has been done, but the net result still stinks. It's something a system administrator might use in a pinch to do something on a server, but it's not something I can imagine using to compose a message like this one.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

On 17 Sep 20 10:32:19, Charles Pierson said the following to Vk3Jed:

I'm a bit the opposite. I found certain aspects of the C64 a bit

illogical,

and preferred the Apples. :)

I started with Tandy, and then C64. My brother's I think all went the
Apple route,. I just never took to them.

I had the Tandy 1000 TL3... my first DOS computer.

My Tandy was a Color Computer II. slightly older beast. :)

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to echicken on Thu Sep 17 2020 13:24:54

For the goal that I have in mind, yes, it'd be necessary. There are existing protocols that come close to the mark, but they might not be best suited for what I'm imagining.

Now my curiosity it up about this.

I'm very much a textmode BBS user, but I see the utility in mobile & web interfaces for BBSs as well. Neither would ever be my primary (or even frequent) means of accessing my system, but it's a nice option to have on occasion - and when I do use it, I want it to be good.

I spent years calling BBSes just long enough to exchange QWK or Blue wave packets. The message bases were what made them. But on occasion, the other stuff is fun.

When you get right down to it, cramming an 80-column terminal and a touch keyboard onto the screen of a modern phone, in an appropriate font at a readable size, just doesn't produce a good result. It's not nice to look at, and it's not nice to type into. Text entry is generally not even as good as in a typical mobile app (autocorrect, word suggestions, word deletion, etc. are usually off the table).

I know. a lot of it is wishful thinking on my part. I have ideas, occasionally I can implement them, but rarely do they turn out as pretty as I imagine.

Telnet, SSH, etc. is possible, can be done, has been done, but the net result still stinks. It's something a system administrator might use in a pinch to do something on a server, but it's not something I can imagine using to compose a message like this one.

Honestly the screen size can be bothersome, but I can manage. My main problem is the keyboard, even with a Bluetooth one. If I have a typo, and I have a lot, even on a regular computer, the backspace doesn't generally work while in Telnet. I have to arrow back, and use a delete, which isn't standard to a typical Android keyboard.

It's obvious you're looking at a much larger scale project than I was picturing,. but it has me very interested.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Charles Pierson to echicken on Thu Sep 17 2020 14:40:55

with a Bluetooth one. If I have a typo, and I have a lot, even on a

regular computer, the backspace

doesn't generally work while in Telnet. I have to arrow back, and use a

delete, which isn't standard

to a typical Android keyboard.

If you hit ctrl-h, that may send the expected backspace sequence. Some terminal
emulators have settings related to this.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

On 17 Sep 20 13:27:35, Charles Pierson said the following to Atreyu:

I had the Tandy 1000 TL3... my first DOS computer.

My Tandy was a Color Computer II. slightly older beast. :)

If memory serves, our household was very close to getting of those but the Radio Shack salesman was wise to upsell us on the 1000.

Atreyu

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)

Ah those were the days I ran my bbs on a color computer 2 then deluxe
Was a great why to learn, I ve been looking one for over a years Now 2
or deluxe.
Thanks Sam

--- Ezycom V3.00 01FB064B
* Origin: Deep Space Gateway BBS Running EZYCOM V3.0 (21:4/120)

Re: Re: Networks
By: echicken to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 17 2020 11:56 am

One thing that's crossed my mind has been to develop a standard for a BBS web API, thus clients of various kinds (mobile apps, web front-ends, even desktop applications) could talk to any compliant system. Some concepts (around organization of message and file areas) are fairly common to all BBS software and could be mapped to this standard interface. If an attempt is made to keep it as RESTful as possible, there can be some flexibility between implementations.

I've actually been working on something in the API realm lately in addition to a few other hobby projects. My reasons aren't/weren't specifically for the reasons you mentioned so much as filling some holes in some projects with more streamlined older solutions, and as such it's not really meant to be so much a master standard as an API and centralized server that I can use for many related tinkerings.
===
Underminer - The Undermine BBS
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (21:4/103)

Re: Re: Networks
By: echicken to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 17 2020 11:56 am

Now, I could just invent this "standard" on my own and implement the

back-end portion on Synchronet as an example, but it'd be

great if it were something that other BBS packages might get on board

with. Would be curious to hear people's thoughts on it.

I've been thinking of doing something like that as well - but coming from a different angle.

Its on the list "to look at", when I get some bandwidth to look at it...

...ëîåï

... Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Avon to Black Panther on Thu Sep 17 2020 08:02 pm

I don't mind dealing with groups of people at work but there are no social connections with them outside of work. Most of my social connections would b immediate family, to a lesser extent family living afar, followed by friends have made here.

I seem to be rather lousy at keeping up connections with people in the face to face physical world. Something I've always thought I should do/be better at but in the end am left wondering have I been beating myself over somethin that is not 'bad' after all but rather just 'is'.

Believe me, having no social network is very, very bad.

If you want to get a project going you need friends to help out. By that, I mean real friends, not friends who are only around when you are paying the rounds.

My own personal network is very feeble because I spent my high-school and college years trying to become a professionalñ instead of making friends via drinking and partying hard. End result is I have some nice business contacts but the amount of friends I have can be counted by the fingers of a horse - for the record, a horse has a finger for each leg.

End result is I could not, for example, build a board game asoc, because I don't have people enough to do it.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

On 09-17-20 09:23, Tiny wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Quoting Vk3jed to Tiny <=-

I acquired a bunch of surplus Lenovo netbooks from schools. Found
they run fine with Lubuntu installed, and from there it was a simple matter of adding SyncTerm and Multimail. :)

Perfect. This laptop I bought for a couple hundred a few years ago,
some dell thing that is still nice and fast and even runs most games.
Just has a small SSD which I'm sure will be replaced with a larger
one
as soon as I get around to doing it.

I do need a new laptop that I can actually do web browsing on, but the netbook is ideal for BBSing. Another good thing about BBSing is it's great for recycling old hardware. :)


... My way is not your way, it's possible that we may both be wrong.
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On 09-17-20 10:27, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Now do we know any BBSers who are mobile app developers? ;)

They're around. But they have their own projects.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. If I was, there probably would be a QWK offline reader in the Google Play store. :)


... Just in one of my moods. I think that helped
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On 09-17-20 10:32, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I'm a bit the opposite. I found certain aspects of the C64 a bit

illogical,

and preferred the Apples. :)

I started with Tandy, and then C64. My brother's I think all went the Apple route,. I just never took to them.

Tandy did have some nice machines for the time. And I was like that with the C64, I never took to it.


... Chocolate has no calories when eaten with friends
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* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-17-20 11:56, echicken wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to Charles Pierson on Thu Sep 17 2020 20:32:00

Now do we know any BBSers who are mobile app developers? ;)

I'm capable, although it's not a thing that I normally do.

Cool. :)

I've been pondering over the past couple of days what might be the best approach.

One thing that's crossed my mind has been to develop a standard for a
BBS web API, thus clients of various kinds (mobile apps, web
front-ends, even desktop applications) could talk to any compliant
system. Some concepts (around organization of message and file areas)
are fairly common to all BBS software and could be mapped to this
standard interface. If an attempt is made to keep it as RESTful as possible, there can be some flexibility between implementations.

There's pros and cons to that approach, but I do have a few questions:

1. What about legacy BBSs?

2. Can this be run offline? "Always on" doesn't meet two of my needs:
- Being isolated from the network and back end.
- Being able to read and write mail while out of mobile range.

3. How "chatty" is this likely to be? Chatty protocols can slow down downloading - a concern when in marginal mobile coverage. QWK, using a simple FTP or Zmodem transfer is extremely efficient in this regard.

This has the advantage over, say QWK or NNTP, of being able to possibly expose other BBS features (eg. chat).

That is a potential positive, though in one of my use cases, chat isn't going to work anyway! :D But while online, chat could be good.

Now, I could just invent this "standard" on my own and implement the back-end portion on Synchronet as an example, but it'd be great if it
were something that other BBS packages might get on board with. Would
be curious to hear people's thoughts on it.

Interesting, though would need to be widely adopted to be useful. Worth exploring.


... Did anybody listen to the boring parts of the evidence?
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On 09-17-20 13:01, Mauro Veiga wrote to CHARLES PIERSON <=-

This is in open Usenet groups. On private areas from your system
don't occur. NNTP clients are more practical on cell phone. Try
Piahong Usenet reader.

If that's the sole device one plans on using for BBSing, it can work well, but if you're like me and like to "device hop", NNTP is a pain, because you have to manually synchronise lastread pointers and group/area subscriptions between the newsreader and the BBS. That got old pretty quickly for me. The fact that NNTP keeps all that data client side is a pain for BBSing.

Other than the lack of server side synchronisation, NNTP was quite good as far as reading/writing messages went. But the lastread pointer and subscription issue was a deal breaker for me. :(


... Vegetarian (n.), Ancient native word meaning "lousy hunter".
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
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* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. If I was, there probably would be a

QWK

offline reader in the Google Play store. :)

I was testing out some telnet apps last night. well actually just one, because I got frustrated. it seemed to be going well connecting, at least to Castle Rock, but if I switched over to another app for even a second to check something, or reply to a message, it dropped the session.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Tandy did have some nice machines for the time. And I was like that with

the

C64, I never took to it.

Obviously, you weren't alone. Apple is still around.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga on Fri Sep 18 2020 08:41 pm

If that's the sole device one plans on using for BBSing, it can work well, b if you're like me and like to "device hop", NNTP is a pain, because you have manually synchronise lastread pointers and group/area subscriptions between newsreader and the BBS. That got old pretty quickly for me. The fact that NNTP keeps all that data client side is a pain for BBSing.

I know it does not help you, but what I do is have my NNTP client in a remote shell. That way, I can access the remote client from any other device. So I have NNTP in any machine capable of SSHing into the shell and the read/unread pointer is stored in the remote shell.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to echicken on Fri Sep 18 2020 19:36:00

1. What about legacy BBSs?

This is easy to do on Synchronet since there's already a webserver and a scripting environment that hooks into all kinds of BBS data. I'm sure it's equally simple with some other BBS packages.

For older BBSs, one would need to be able to read and write whatever datastore(s) the BBS uses (files on disk, typically) and connect all of that to
a web service. It's doable but it would depend on interested parties doing the work and I honestly doubt if that would happen.

2. Can this be run offline? "Always on" doesn't meet two of my needs:

What I'm talking about right now is just a web API. Clients that interact with it wouldn't always need to be online.

A mobile app could grab updates (new messages, etc.) when networking is available and then store stuff
locally to be read later. Or send out new messages when the network becomes available.

3. How "chatty" is this likely to be? Chatty protocols can slow down downloading - a concern when in marginal mobile coverage. QWK, using a

simple

FTP or Zmodem transfer is extremely efficient in this regard.

Probably not very chatty. If there were a persistent connection when networking
was available, it'd be idle and silent most of the time, with the client receiving updates as necesssary. This can be more efficient than having the client poll the server on a schedule.

Interesting, though would need to be widely adopted to be useful. Worth exploring.

It'd be cool if it were widely adopted, but that doesn't necessarily affect its
usefulness. If Synchronet supported it, a whole lot of BBSs could enable the feature very easily.

This is just another way of getting content into and out of a BBS. Like an offline mailer, or an NNTP client, or an FTP client, or a web interface. Not everyone needs to be using the BBS the same way for this to work.

Right now I'm thinking of three things: the API back-end, a mobile app, and a web interface that could be used with any compliant BBS software.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

My own personal network is very feeble because I spent my high-school and college years trying to become a professionalñ instead of making
friends via drinking and partying hard. End result is I have some nice

Speaking as someone who has moved more times than years over the past decade, and who has often struggled with this, I think it's something that requires effort throughout life.

It's harder during a pandemic, because I don't know that I'd be comfortable going to a board game get together or a computer club, but I'm still writing lots of messages to the people I _do_ know that are kinda-sorta close.

But hopefully I can make some new friends around here, through work or otherwise, and I hope you can find a way, too.

There are a lot of people out there who want more friends and have the time/inclination to have more people in their life.

But getting started is normally the hardest part.

Okay, hopefully that wasn't too soapboxy. I'd just prefer to think that I'll
be able to find friends despite being an adult in an unfamiliar area.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Gamgee wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's
actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.

Odd. I never saw Gamgee's message.

It's not a must, just a thing I like to do. But to be honest 90% of
my social life beyond my wife, kids and grandkids is online. I have anxiety, and group situations tend to send me into major panic
attacks. I've probably spoken more with the people on here in the
week or so I've been set up on this network than I have had in person conversations in a year.

Even if I only lurk, it is my way of seeing how people I know and
care about are doing.

Perfectly alright, and further more I must commend you on being open about it and talking about it. From my own experience with similar matters I know how hard that can be even if one chooses to do it anonymously.

Also - thanks for posting quality content like this for us to have a real, proper discussion about instead of some of the more stupid stuff from the zillionere.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)

Warpslide wrote to Avon <=-

Eventually they stopped asking, which was kind of a relief. I'm not
sure why, but I've always just kind of compartmentalized the people I
work with vs the people I know outside of work.

Totally. I have an element of user support in my job, and that's
diminished my desire to see people outside of work.

Early on in my career I had a boss who I had a good social
relationship with, but we were a bad fit professionally, and when
things went sour, I stopped the social aspect. I think that's where
it started.


... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Warpslide wrote to Black Panther <=-

On 17 Sep 2020, Black Panther said the following...

My wife doesn't understand why I don't like going shopping with her at places like Walmart on Christmas Eve...

That's me going to Costco on any given day. Now I will only go 30 or
45 minutes before closing during the week. It's just way too peopley
in there for my comfort level.

Christmas Eve is a whole different shopping beast. People are
laser-focused, the stock isn't quite so overwhelming, and it's easier
to get in - and get out. If you can find a parking place, that is.

Driving to my parent's house for Christmas Eve, we'd pass by a local
mall, and there'd be a line of cars out the offramp and spilling out
into the freeway. Invariably, it was single driver cars with a guy
sweating out last minute shopping.


NP: Pearl Jam, "Jeremy"



... Emphasize the flaws
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Perfectly alright, and further more I must commend you on being open about it and talking about it. From my own experience with similar matters I know how hard that can be even if one chooses to do it anonymously.

Possibly the semi anonymity of posting somewhere like here, the safety net of a
computer network between the audience and myself, makes things easier.

Also - thanks for posting quality content like this for us to have a real, proper discussion about instead of some of the more stupid stuff from the zillionere.

To be a man of few words in person,. I can tend to go on and on in writing.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Vk3jed wrote to Tiny <=-

I do need a new laptop that I can actually do web browsing on, but the netbook is ideal for BBSing. Another good thing about BBSing is it's great for recycling old hardware. :)

Very true. Thankfully my laptop is still good enough for an all around
machine.

Shawn

... Success is being nothing but a quote.

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - telnet://tinysbbs.com:3023 (21:1/130)

On 09-18-20 07:52, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I was testing out some telnet apps last night. well actually just one, because I got frustrated. it seemed to be going well connecting, at
least to Castle Rock, but if I switched over to another app for even a second to check something, or reply to a message, it dropped the
session.

Ouch, that's a bit nasty. :(


... Side effects may include nausea, diarrhea, anxiety, and sleeplessness.
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On 09-18-20 08:03, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Tandy did have some nice machines for the time. And I was like that
with

the

C64, I never took to it.

Obviously, you weren't alone. Apple is still around.

Unfortunately, I could never afford an Apple back then (was still in school), but there was one Commodore that I definitely wanted - the Amiga. By then, I was a poor full time uni student, so no joy on that on ether. :/


... Nougalicity - Degree to which a Snickers will stretch before breaking.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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On 09-18-20 06:20, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I know it does not help you, but what I do is have my NNTP client in a remote shell. That way, I can access the remote client from any other device. So I have NNTP in any machine capable of SSHing into the shell
and the read/unread pointer is stored in the remote shell.

Yeah, those remote shell/screen solutions aren't my cup of tea. And we're back to ugly text mode on a mobile device scenarios.


... I've got a memory for faces, but in this case I'll make an exception.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-18-20 13:49, echicken wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to echicken on Fri Sep 18 2020 19:36:00

1. What about legacy BBSs?

This is easy to do on Synchronet since there's already a webserver and
a scripting environment that hooks into all kinds of BBS data. I'm sure it's equally simple with some other BBS packages.

Yes, I don't doubt that. Synchronet is probably the ideal BBS package to build this for.

For older BBSs, one would need to be able to read and write whatever datastore(s) the BBS uses (files on disk, typically) and connect all of that to a web service. It's doable but it would depend on interested parties doing the work and I honestly doubt if that would happen.

And don't overlook the user databases, otherwise we'll have a JAMNNTPd situation of effectively having to maintain 2 configs. And you'll need the original user base to be able to save lastread pointers, so the same user can log into the BBS at a later date via telnet or whatever and continue where they left off.

2. Can this be run offline? "Always on" doesn't meet two of my needs:

What I'm talking about right now is just a web API. Clients that
interact with it wouldn't always need to be online.

A mobile app could grab updates (new messages, etc.) when networking is available and then store stuff
locally to be read later. Or send out new messages when the network becomes available.

I thought so. I personally would prefer not to be interacting with the server side in real time, and have that communication happening in the background.

3. How "chatty" is this likely to be? Chatty protocols can slow down downloading - a concern when in marginal mobile coverage. QWK, using a

simple

FTP or Zmodem transfer is extremely efficient in this regard.

Probably not very chatty. If there were a persistent connection when networking was available, it'd be idle and silent most of the time,
with the client receiving updates as necesssary. This can be more efficient than having the client poll the server on a schedule.

OK, dounds good there.

Interesting, though would need to be widely adopted to be useful. Worth exploring.

It'd be cool if it were widely adopted, but that doesn't necessarily affect its usefulness. If Synchronet supported it, a whole lot of BBSs could enable the feature very easily.

That would be a start, but it does mean the client will be far from universal. Still, as I read mail on a Synchronet BBS, I would use it.

This is just another way of getting content into and out of a BBS. Like
an offline mailer, or an NNTP client, or an FTP client, or a web interface. Not everyone needs to be using the BBS the same way for this
to work.

Depends what way you mean. Technology wise, it'll work, no doubt there. But for the bigger picture of introducing BBSs to mobile users, only some BBSs will be able to take part.

Right now I'm thinking of three things: the API back-end, a mobile app, and a web interface that could be used with any compliant BBS software.

I suspect there will need to be some sort of BBS specific layer between many BBS software packages and the web interface. But if it's modular (and documented well) enough, interested third parties might be able to write some of the missing pieces for their favourate software.


... Love is blind, marriage is the eye-opener.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-19-20 08:27, Tiny wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Vk3jed wrote to Tiny <=-

I do need a new laptop that I can actually do web browsing on, but the netbook is ideal for BBSing. Another good thing about BBSing is it's great for recycling old hardware. :)

Very true. Thankfully my laptop is still good enough for an all
around
machine.

I'm reliant on desktops, and have just ordered an upgrade to the phone. :)


... Death is nature's way of saying it's too late to play GEEK.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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On 09-18-20 07:52, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I was testing out some telnet apps last night. well actually just one,
because I got frustrated. it seemed to be going well connecting, at
least to Castle Rock, but if I switched over to another app for even a
second to check something, or reply to a message, it dropped the
session.

Ouch, that's a bit nasty. :(

Yeah, that sensitive to multitask is no bueno.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to echicken on Sat Sep 19 2020 19:11:00

And don't overlook the user databases, otherwise we'll have a JAMNNTPd

Authentication would be a service that any implementation of the API "should" provide.

In the case of legacy BBS software, the web API might be an external application that accesses the BBS data via the filesystem; it's really up to the implmentor to figure out how to make that work.

I thought so. I personally would prefer not to be interacting with the

server

side in real time, and have that communication happening in the

background.

Ideally a mobile client would prefetch stuff in some sensible manner (eg. all new messages in subscribed areas as they become available, and so on) so that it happens quietly in the background and makes content available offline. (Rather than waiting for you to tap on something to initiate a request.)

That would be a start, but it does mean the client will be far from

universal.

Still, as I read mail on a Synchronet BBS, I would use it.

The client could be a "universal" thing, or it could be a template app that sysops could repackage for use exclusively with their BBS.

Depends what way you mean. Technology wise, it'll work, no doubt there.

But

for the bigger picture of introducing BBSs to mobile users, only some BBSs

will

be able to take part.

Right, but if I pursued this, I'd only be able to do so much. Users would need to pick from the compatible systems that are available.

I suspect there will need to be some sort of BBS specific layer between

many

BBS software packages and the web interface. But if it's modular (and documented well) enough, interested third parties might be able to write

some

of the missing pieces for their favourate software.

The role of the web API would be to channel the BBS-package-specific stuff into
a standard format, so that the main stuff like messages, files, who's online, user list, bulletins, would all be available to clients in a predictable format
regardless of the back-end.

For additional features that are BBS-specific, the API could leave room for extensions, and client side features could be designed to only show up if the server supports them.

It may be impossible to do this *properly* in a universal way. Right now I'm just poindering it and wondering at what point does each BBS package diverge. For example, Synchronet message headers include a lot of useful information (about message threads, etc.) which not every other BBS may provide or be able to emulate.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
* Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (21:1/164)

On 09-19-20 06:38, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah, that sensitive to multitask is no bueno.

I'd agree, definitely a deal breaker for a telnet client!


... Error: Bad Or Missing Mouse Driver. Blame The Cat?? (Y/n)
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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On 09-19-20 12:29, echicken wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Re: Re: Networks
By: Vk3jed to echicken on Sat Sep 19 2020 19:11:00

And don't overlook the user databases, otherwise we'll have a JAMNNTPd

Authentication would be a service that any implementation of the API "should" provide.

Yep, I'd agree there.

In the case of legacy BBS software, the web API might be an external application that accesses the BBS data via the filesystem; it's really
up to the implmentor to figure out how to make that work.

Hence my reference to third parties in my last reply. ;)

Ideally a mobile client would prefetch stuff in some sensible manner
(eg. all new messages in subscribed areas as they become available, and
so on) so that it happens quietly in the background and makes content available offline. (Rather than waiting for you to tap on something to initiate a request.)

That would be ideal and solve both the responsiveness and loss of connection issues. :)

The client could be a "universal" thing, or it could be a template app that sysops could repackage for use exclusively with their BBS.

Yep, we would want "One client, many BBSs". Again, just like a QWK reader. :)

Depends what way you mean. Technology wise, it'll work, no doubt there.

But

for the bigger picture of introducing BBSs to mobile users, only some BBSs

will

be able to take part.

Right, but if I pursued this, I'd only be able to do so much. Users
would need to pick from the compatible systems that are available.

Certainly, doing on Synchronet as a proof of concept, as well to kick start it would make sense.

The role of the web API would be to channel the BBS-package-specific
stuff into a standard format, so that the main stuff like messages,
files, who's online, user list, bulletins, would all be available to clients in a predictable format regardless of the back-end.

Yep.

For additional features that are BBS-specific, the API could leave room for extensions, and client side features could be designed to only show
up if the server supports them.

It may be impossible to do this *properly* in a universal way. Right
now I'm just poindering it and wondering at what point does each BBS package diverge. For example, Synchronet message headers include a lot
of useful information (about message threads, etc.) which not every
other BBS may provide or be able to emulate.

Definitely worth pursuing, at least on Synchronet. I'd definitely use it. For some day trips, where it's not worth carting the netbook, the proposed mobile app would be useful to while away the miles (when I'm not driving, of course!), and easier on a plane as well, making use of its offline capabilities. :)

And it may go full circle and become a PC client. I also wonder if the API could be used on web forums as well, in a manner similar to Tapatalk (but with the latter's assumption that people want to read in online/interactive mode).


... The answer is "maybe" ... and that's semi-final
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Quoting Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga <=-

On 09-17-20 13:01, Mauro Veiga wrote to CHARLES PIERSON <=-

This is in open Usenet groups. On private areas from your system
don't occur. NNTP clients are more practical on cell phone. Try
Piahong Usenet reader.

If that's the sole device one plans on using for BBSing, it can work
well, but if you're like me and like to "device hop", NNTP is a pain, because you have to manually synchronise lastread pointers and
group/area subscriptions between the newsreader and the BBS. That got
old pretty quickly for me. The fact that NNTP keeps all that data
client side is a pain for BBSing.
Other than the lack of server side synchronisation, NNTP was quite
good as far as reading/writing messages went. But the lastread pointer and subscription issue was a deal breaker for me. :(

I read/wrote a lot on NNTP in the past and this feature don't
disturb me. Is a different feeling. But i prefer Bluewave or
OpenXP on BBSing. The DOS text screen give me pleasure to use. :-)

... Vegetarian (n.), Ancient native word meaning "lousy hunter".

Totally agree. :-DD



[]s ³
ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
³ Mauro R. Veiga - abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ³
ÄÄÄÄijÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ


MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... COFFEE.COM not found: (A)bort, (R)eheat, (S)nooze
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: Ninho do Abutre 2 - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil * (21:1/181)

On 09-20-20 10:16, Mauro Veiga wrote to VK3JED <=-

I read/wrote a lot on NNTP in the past and this feature don't

I found the lack of synchronisation in NNTP a pain, gave it up quickly, though the reading experience itself on mobile devices was good.

disturb me. Is a different feeling. But i prefer Bluewave or
OpenXP on BBSing. The DOS text screen give me pleasure to use.
:-)

Yes, BBSing feels better in text mode, even if it's just a console window on a graphical desktop. :)


... Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Unfortunately, I could never afford an Apple back then (was still in school), but there was one Commodore that I definitely wanted - the
Amiga. By then, I was a poor full time uni student, so no joy on
that on ether. :/

I skipped the UNI bit, just went and got a job. And I managed to buy, wait for it, an old europlus out of a school ;) As much I was a tad parochial in the apple dept, I was never over interested in the Amiga. By the time it came to look for a BBS candidate I ran with a PC...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

On 09-20-20 07:56, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Unfortunately, I could never afford an Apple back then (was still in school), but there was one Commodore that I definitely wanted - the
Amiga. By then, I was a poor full time uni student, so no joy on
that on ether. :/

I skipped the UNI bit, just went and got a job. And I managed to buy, wait for it, an old europlus out of a school ;) As much I was a tad parochial in the apple dept, I was never over interested in the Amiga.
By the time it came to look for a BBS candidate I ran with a PC...

I was well and truly on the PC bandwagon, by the time I started BBSing. :)


... If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 17 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I don't mind dealing with groups of people at work but there are no
social connections with them outside of work. Most of my social connections would be immediate family, to a lesser extent family living afar, followed by friends I have made here.

I seem to be rather lousy at keeping up connections with people in the face to face physical world. Something I've always thought I should
do/be better at but in the end am left wondering have I been beating myself over something that is not 'bad' after all but rather just 'is'.

It is a fairly common trait amongst introverts it seems =)


The question I have is this, though:

Would it be any easier/harder/about the same in terms of anxiousness if the people whom you got to know and become friends with in BBS world, were all in
a big hall together.

For me, I think it would be probably a little easier.

---
|14Best regards,
|11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

|07ÄÄ |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07ÄÄ |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07ÄÄÄ¿ |07ÄÄ |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07ÄÄ |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07ÂÄÄÙ |07ÄÄ |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07ÄÂ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07ÄÄÄÙ
|07ÄÄ |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07ÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

Re: Re: Networks
By: MeaTLoTioN to Avon on Tue Sep 22 2020 09:14 pm

Would it be any easier/harder/about the same in terms of anxiousness if the people whom you got to know and become friends with in BBS world, were all i a big hall together.

For me, I think it would be probably a little easier.

I don't know about Avon.

For me, the people I have had a solid relationship online carries as much weight as IRL friends, so I would have no problem being with them in the same room. Excluding virus issues and all that.

That said, I am not an anxious person when it comes to dealing with people. I just hate people and would rather be doing something else other than socialize for the sake of socializing, unless I find really awesome people.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Would it be any easier/harder/about the same in terms of anxiousness if the people whom you got to know and become friends with in BBS world,
were all in a big hall together.

For me, I think it would be probably a little easier.

I guess I tend to assume that most people who'd regularly participate in a discussion forum like this would wind up being at least somewhat social.

Well, among the crowd of people they already know, even if they don't know
how they look.

But I'm coming from the perspective of being moderately extroverted (probably an ambivert, technically, but I think that makes me "moderately extroverted", especially with the techie crowd.).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

I guess I tend to assume that most people who'd regularly participate in
a discussion forum like this would wind up being at least somewhat
social.

Well, among the crowd of people they already know, even if they don't
know how they look.

But I'm coming from the perspective of being moderately extroverted (probably an ambivert, technically, but I think that makes me
"moderately extroverted", especially with the techie crowd.).

I think if a conversation got onto something I knew a lot about, I could be fairly comfortable talking amongst a handful of people that I know, but when conversations turn to something I know little to nothing about, even if
people whom I know and trust are around, I tend to stealthily slide away into the background where my comfort zone is.

I think I am not at all alone in this anxiousness or introvertedness (is that even a word? Guess it is now).

---
|14Best regards,
|11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

|07ÄÄ |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07ÄÄ |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07ÄÄÄ¿ |07ÄÄ |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07ÄÄ |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07ÂÄÄÙ |07ÄÄ |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07ÄÂ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07ÄÄÄÙ
|07ÄÄ |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07ÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

I guess I tend to assume that most people who'd regularly participate in
a discussion forum like this would wind up being at least somewhat
social.

There is a difference between this and an in person social situation. While theoretically, this is a public forum, open to anyone with a connection to this
echo, there is still the illusion of a private conversation and anonymity granted by it taking place between computer screens.

I think if a conversation got onto something I knew a lot about, I could be fairly comfortable talking amongst a handful of people that I know, but when conversations turn to something I know little to nothing about, even if people whom I know and trust are around, I tend to stealthily slide away into the background where my comfort zone is.

I get that all of the time, even with family. To the extent that once I did speak at length about something, the people around had somewhat shocked expressions.

I think I am not at all alone in this anxiousness or introvertedness (is that even a word? Guess it is now).

You're definitely not alone.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

but when conversations turn to something I know little to nothing about, even if people whom I know and trust are around, I tend to stealthily slide away into the background where my comfort zone is.

That seems to make some inherent sense. Who is thrilled with a conversation that involves a topic that exposes a lack of knowledge, the have no opinion
on, is boring, etc.?

I have broad interests in general, but if people started talking about their favorite metal bands, I could probably throw in a few random words (Volbeat! Type-O Negative!) and ask questions (Is Rammstein metal, or are they
something else?), but two metal heads talking about the music would be completely lost on me, and I'd just be standing there, not gaining any useful knowledge or being able to be involved in the conversation.

And, yeah, I'd generally go away at that point, even if I was trying to stick with it. I think extroverted people would be _more_ likely to go away, because there surely are more people to talk with, and with whom they could do more speaking.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

On 09-23-20 10:41, Adept wrote to MeaTLoTioN <=-

I guess I tend to assume that most people who'd regularly participate
in a discussion forum like this would wind up being at least somewhat social.

Actually, a lot of people who take to technology are somewhat introverted, and online communication is easier for introverts to deal with.

But I'm coming from the perspective of being moderately extroverted (probably an ambivert, technically, but I think that makes me
"moderately extroverted", especially with the techie crowd.).

I'm somewhat of an ambivert as well. ;)


... Reality is for those who can't handle computers.
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--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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On 24 Sep 2020, Adept said the following...

but when conversations turn to something I know little to nothing abo even if people whom I know and trust are around, I tend to stealthily slide away into the background where my comfort zone is.

That seems to make some inherent sense. Who is thrilled with a conversation that involves a topic that exposes a lack of knowledge, the have no opinion on, is boring, etc.?

If it's a subject that is interesting, whether I know much about it or not, I will still listen, just make sure that the attention is not on me at all, if
I am asked a question or for my opinion I am quick to divert it to something someone else can talk about.

I have broad interests in general, but if people started talking about their favorite metal bands, I could probably throw in a few random words (Volbeat! Type-O Negative!) and ask questions (Is Rammstein metal, or
are they something else?), but two metal heads talking about the music would be completely lost on me, and I'd just be standing there, not gaining any useful knowledge or being able to be involved in the conversation.

Is Rammstein metal? I think they're more industrial metal, and I really enjoy listening to them from time to time. I am a bit of a muso in general so most music that I hear I enjoy, to a degree I have an eclectic taste, but more broadly I can listen to most things and get something positive out of it,
with exception for rap! LOL =)

And, yeah, I'd generally go away at that point, even if I was trying to stick with it. I think extroverted people would be _more_ likely to go away, because there surely are more people to talk with, and with whom they could do more speaking.

I would be looking for less people to talk with in general lol. I think actually I would tend to stay away on my own unless someone approached me for conversation, I generally never start them and often hope that they end
quickly when involved in them lol.

---
|14Best regards,
|11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

|07ÄÄ |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07ÄÄ |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07ÄÄÄ¿ |07ÄÄ |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07ÄÄ |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07ÂÄÄÙ |07ÄÄ |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07ÄÂ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07ÄÄÄÙ
|07ÄÄ |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07ÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

in a discussion forum like this would wind up being at least somewhat social.

Actually, a lot of people who take to technology are somewhat
introverted, and online communication is easier for introverts to deal

I mean, introverted != antisocial.

But sure, I wouldn't argue that point. I just tended to think that those who engage in communication (as opposed to going for door games and/or files), would be more likely to want some amount of social behavior.

I doubt there's anyone super extroverted here, though I did have a sysop
friend for a while who was _extremely_ extroverted. One of those extroverts
who adopts a bunch of introverts.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Is Rammstein metal? I think they're more industrial metal, and I really

...well, I should be talking to other users, and I don't want to talk your
ear off all night...

I would be looking for less people to talk with in general lol. I think

Yeah, I think most of us would, as the aspect of having to go through all
sorts of small talk just to get into a decent conversation is exhausting.

Thus closer friends are easier. Though I assume they're easier for most everyone. Just doesn't have quite as much of a novelty factor.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

I mean, introverted != antisocial.

But sure, I wouldn't argue that point. I just tended to think that those who engage in communication (as opposed to going for door games and/or files), would be more likely to want some amount of social behavior.

Actually, while it's true introverted isn't the same as antisocial, my personal
preference is minimal social activity face to face. It drains me too much.
I recently had an online conversation with someone about a CanAm Spider. He mentioned using it for grocery shopping. When I said it wouldn't work for me, because I generally have a 50lbs bag of dogfood, his reply was then i would have an excuse for a second trip. My first thought was "My God, I'd have to go
to the store again?"

I doubt there's anyone super extroverted here, though I did have a sysop friend for a while who was _extremely_ extroverted. One of those extroverts who adopts a bunch of introverts.

I know the type. They want to "fix" us.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Thus closer friends are easier. Though I assume they're easier for most everyone. Just doesn't have quite as much of a novelty factor.

I'm not so sure about that. My dad has always been a big introvert. I've never known him to have more than one or two friends at a time. I was like that when
I was younger. Now I don't even have that. Not in person.

Most of the rest of my family, are extroverted. I mean to the point that they have never met a stranger. I just can not grok that mindset.


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

it wouldn't work for me, because I generally have a 50lbs bag of
dogfood, his reply was then i would have an excuse for a second trip.
My first thought was "My God, I'd have to go to the store again?"

...that just seems odd. People actually enjoy that?

I mean, don't get me wrong -- before the pandemic changed everything, I
enjoyed going to thrift stores, trying on fun clothes at whatever store,
etc., but a second trip to the _same_ store, in the _same_ area, on the same day?

That's literally a chore. My only "enjoyment" would be if I wanted an excuse for a walk, like how I used walking to a mailbox as an excuse to get out of
the house, and would space out returning my DVD.com a Netflix Company DVDs in order to going on a close-to-daily walk.

friend for a while who was _extremely_ extroverted. One of those extro who adopts a bunch of introverts.

I know the type. They want to "fix" us.

Eh, while probably true, I think it was that he wanted to be doing something _all the time_, and if all his friends were introverts or moderately anti-social ambiverts like me, he needed to have a dozen friends just to keep his social calendar as full as he wanted.

But the world in general does seem to expect people to be extroverted, which can cause problems.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

I'm not so sure about that. My dad has always been a big introvert. I've never known him to have more than one or two friends at a time. I was like that when I was younger. Now I don't even have that. Not in person.

So, wait, one or two people, period, that he kept in contact with? Or just
one or two people he ever hung out with on any consistent basis?

Most of the rest of my family, are extroverted. I mean to the point that they have never met a stranger. I just can not grok that mindset.

Yeah, that _is_ a pretty different mindset. I like people well enough, and
will be friendly to anyone, but... if I haven't talked to them before,
they're a stranger.

This does remind me of my thing with names -- I dislike having introductory things where everyone says their name. Because I don't care. I want to learn the names after I learn the people. The name is really only there because I need a way to identify one person as being different from another.

But society dictates...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

On 25 Sep 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...

Actually, while it's true introverted isn't the same as antisocial, my personal preference is minimal social activity face to face. It drains me too much.

I'm the same way. When I first got into computers as a profession I was usually the guy in the back room, plugging away on whatever needed to be done for the day. Occasionally I go in on weekends when something I'm "playing with" would cause an outage.

Now it seems I'm still that guy in the back room but now I have to have Zoom
on and "sit in" on a bunch of calls (which I really don't need to be on) and have my focus divided on what I'm doing & this call.

I'm the same way, dealing with "people" all day is draining, and I find I really have to fight to maintain "recovery time" as more and more the 9 to 5 erodes and we're all just working all the time.

I know the type. They want to "fix" us.

And after they're done trying to "fix" us, I go home for a stress nap. ;)

Jay

... Why was the cookie sad? Because his mom was a wafer long!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

On 25 Sep 2020, Charles Pierson said the following...

Most of the rest of my family, are extroverted. I mean to the point that they have never met a stranger. I just can not grok that mindset.

One of the first times I went out for dinner with my in-laws, they just
struck up a conversation with the table next to us.

At first I wanted to melt into a puddle of embarrassment under the table, but to my surprise they started talking back! As the meal went on the other
table would occasionally talk to us and vice-versa.

This is something that I could never do, to the point it would never occur to my mind as something TO do.

Jay

... I found out I'm colour blind. The news came completely out of the green!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

My first thought was "My God, I'd have to go to the store again?"

...that just seems odd. People actually enjoy that?

I think his point was more to the riding the Spider, but still.

I mean, don't get me wrong -- before the pandemic changed everything, I enjoyed going to thrift stores, trying on fun clothes at whatever store, etc., but a second trip to the _same_ store, in the _same_ area, on the same day?

I'm much the same. Well, not so much trying on clothes, but checking out the wares at thrift stores, hardware/tool stores, or electronics stores, I could wander around looking all day.

I know the type. They want to "fix" us.

Eh, while probably true, I think it was that he wanted to be doing something _all the time_, and if all his friends were introverts or moderately anti-social ambiverts like me, he needed to have a dozen friends just to keep his social calendar as full as he wanted.

There is that. But still surprising he'd do so with a bunch of introverts.

But the world in general does seem to expect people to be extroverted, which can cause problems.

We're alien creatures to one another. It's like you cannot get into the other mindset. I mean, intellectually, you might be able to understand the idea, but you truly cannot know what it's like.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

So, wait, one or two people, period, that he kept in contact with? Or just one or two people he ever hung out with on any consistent basis?

Outside of work contacts, probably the second. From the time i was 6 or 7, I can think of 2 people not related to use he would be in social situations with,
unless it was initiated by my mother.

Most of the rest of my family, are extroverted. I mean to the point that
they have never met a stranger. I just can not grok that mindset.

Yeah, that _is_ a pretty different mindset. I like people well enough, and will be friendly to anyone, but... if I haven't talked to them before, they're a stranger.

On some level, I can understand why they are like that. I'm from a huge family.
I am the oldest of 5 kids, my mom had 4 brothers, my dad is one of 8 kids, and my grandparents came from big families. There was always lots of people around.

This does remind me of my thing with names -- I dislike having introductory things where everyone says their name. Because I don't care. I want to learn the names after I learn the people. The name is really only there because I need a way to identify one person as being different from another.

But society dictates...

I'm horrible with names. It can take a week or more of seeing someone daily for a name to click with a person.

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

This is something that I could never do, to the point it would never occur to my mind as something TO do.

I'm the same way. But even worse, it apparently overlaps into my personal life. Apparently, I tend to give blank stares when listening to people.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.7
* Origin: HOUSTON, TX (21:4/111)

Hello Adept!

** On Friday 25.09.20 - 13:50, Adept wrote to Charles Pierson:

This does remind me of my thing with names -- I dislike
having introductory things where everyone says their name.
Because I don't care. I want to learn the names after I
learn the people.

The planned introductory things are just a tool to get
everyone started in conversation - to break the ice, so to
speak - and where everyone gets an equal chance to hear from
everyone else. When it's your turn just say exactly what you
wrote above.. "I dislike these introductory things where we
say our names, becuase I don't care." ..and everyone will have
a good laugh and know that they are dealing with with someone
who can speak their mind and doesn't mind. ;) Nothing wrong
about that.


.

--- OpenXP 5.0.46
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

Here's my suggestion: Don't bother. Unplug for a few days. It's actually an enjoyable sensation to not be a slave to an electronic
device for a while. Try it and see.

Didn't we all sign up for electronic servitude when we got our
first mailer license?

Hehe, I suppose that's true. It can be nice to take a break,
though.

I'm just back online today after a 10 day (forced) break.
Hurricane Sally brought me 3 days without electricity, and then an
additional 7 days waiting for cable/internet to be restored. It
was aggravating for many reasons, but actually was kind of nice to
"get away" for a little bit. :-)



... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

On 09-25-20 10:49, Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I mean, introverted != antisocial.

True, the vast majority of people do want some form of social connection. Introverts prefer it in small doses and more one on one with a few special people, while extroverts like to be out in crowds, and have a large number of social contacts at once.

But sure, I wouldn't argue that point. I just tended to think that
those who engage in communication (as opposed to going for door games and/or files), would be more likely to want some amount of social behavior.

Social connection, yes. However, for some, technology mediated communications - everything from ham radio to social media, can be much easier than traditional social occasions like parties and clubbing. I'm a classic example in that area, where a large part of my CB and ham radio interests came from a desire to connect with people, and a few years later, after my interest in computers wanes, discovering BBSs rekindled my interest in computers. :) And these interests requiring a degree of technical knowledge was also a good fit for me. :)

I doubt there's anyone super extroverted here, though I did have a
sysop friend for a while who was _extremely_ extroverted. One of those extroverts who adopts a bunch of introverts.

Interesting, sounds like someone who needed the complementary energy of introverts.


... Birth: The first and direst of all disasters.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

...that just seems odd. People actually enjoy that?

I think his point was more to the riding the Spider, but still.

Yeah. I suppose I find that a _bit_ odd, but it seems reasonable enough. But
I think I'd rather take the additional trip in a different direction. Preferably one involving less city.

I'm much the same. Well, not so much trying on clothes, but checking
out the wares at thrift stores, hardware/tool stores, or electronics stores, I could wander around looking all day.

I've been enjoying doing that a bit in Germany -- though so far it's just
been getting some printed material and going to grocery stores. I'm still a little uncertain, what with the pandemic. Germany's numbers aren't _that_
good.

There is that. But still surprising he'd do so with a bunch of introverts.

I suppose -- but figure that much of his social group was people that he connected with through BBSs, and it's quite plausible that his selection of possible friends was _really_ introvert heavy.

These days, he runs an event-staging company, so that might lead him to be
more exposed to extroverts. But I don't really know that much about what's going on with him, nor how much the pandemic has messed things up.

We're alien creatures to one another. It's like you cannot get into the other mindset. I mean, intellectually, you might be able to understand the idea, but you truly cannot know what it's like.

Yeah. Though I get that for a variety of things. E.g., politics, even having had entirely different opinions previously, it's still hard to figure out a different mindset.

But lots beyond that -- e.g., even just a general mindset for how one
responds.

Then again, knowing this tends to lead me to trying to figure out why people are that way, rather than trying to figure out how to change them.

Though it's a struggle when others' behavior injures me in some way (e.g., be
a passenger in the car of someone who drives recklessly).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

wrote above.. "I dislike these introductory things where we
say our names, becuase I don't care." ..and everyone will have
a good laugh and know that they are dealing with with someone
who can speak their mind and doesn't mind. ;) Nothing wrong
about that.

True, true.

I dunno. I think I'd prefer an introductory thing where people talked about what living famous person they'd like to have a meal and conversation with.

Or something along that line, where generally it reveals a bit more than knowing name and location history does.

But, indeed, it is the game, and there's a way to play it to best get to know people.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

easier than traditional social occasions like parties and clubbing. I'm

I do kind of wonder about those things, as they mostly seem to be excuses to binge drink.

I mean, I learned to (generally) enjoy going dancing while sober, but that
took a fair amount of effort to get there, and still depends on a variety of considerations, like being there with friends or a significant other who
sticks around and isn't _that_ drunk.

And also it not being so crowded that one gets bumped all the time.

But I mostly did that with a significant other who, while introverted,
enjoyed it as a binge drinking event, and the drinking enabled them to enjoy the experience more, even with occasionally being bumped.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I mean, I learned to (generally) enjoy going dancing while sober, but
that took a fair amount of effort to get there, and still depends on a variety of considerations, like being there with friends or a
significant other who sticks around and isn't _that_ drunk.

A wonderful friend of mine once disappeared from the BBSes for a
couple of weeks back in the 90s. He returned with a post entitled
"Things I learned when I stopped drinking."

One of the items on the list was "I didn't realize until I stopped
drinking that I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DANCE"




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Re: Re: Networks
By: Adept to Vk3jed on Sun Sep 27 2020 11:20 am

easier than traditional social occasions like parties and clubbing. I'

I do kind of wonder about those things, as they mostly seem to be excuses to binge drink.

You can say that again.

I think going to a place in order to socialize is the wrong approach. You have to go to a place because you want to go there, and if you happen to find somebody cool there, then great,

Today I had that experience, sort of. I went to a target shooting competition because I wanted to blast targets away and have some fun burning gunpowder. There happened to be people with guns over there (duh). So at some point somebody pulled a piece of equipment from a bad and I broke in and asked "Hey dude, that looks cool, how much did it cost you?"

There you have it, social interaction you don't have to force. You start a conversation about a common interest because you were to a place in order to practice that interest.
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On 09-27-20 11:20, Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

easier than traditional social occasions like parties and clubbing. I'm

I do kind of wonder about those things, as they mostly seem to be
excuses to binge drink.

Sadly, many are, and I have no interest in that these days. I barely drink at all these days. Last drink was in early January (New Years leftovers), and the next is likely to be Christmas.

I mean, I learned to (generally) enjoy going dancing while sober, but
that took a fair amount of effort to get there, and still depends on a variety of considerations, like being there with friends or a
significant other who sticks around and isn't _that_ drunk.

I don't mind some forms of dancing (whie sober), especially formal styles like ballroom. Not that I'm good at it, but I cope with that better than nightclub styles.

And also it not being so crowded that one gets bumped all the time.

That too.

But I mostly did that with a significant other who, while introverted, enjoyed it as a binge drinking event, and the drinking enabled them to enjoy the experience more, even with occasionally being bumped.

Yeah, I used to do such things, but over it now. My interest in drinking had been dwindling since the mid 2000s, but when I got more seriously into competitive sport over the last 5 years, what remaining interest I had in drinking went away. :)


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On 09-27-20 11:12, Adept wrote to Ogg <=-

I dunno. I think I'd prefer an introductory thing where people talked about what living famous person they'd like to have a meal and conversation with.

Those ficticious ones do my head in, no thanks. ;)


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On 09-27-20 12:42, Arelor wrote to Adept <=-

I think going to a place in order to socialize is the wrong approach.
You have to go to a place because you want to go there, and if you
happen to find somebody cool there, then great,

I've done it both ways, but I found the most important thing is the place or event you are going to has to be something you're comfortable with, whether that be a hobby group, sporting club, cafe or nightclub.

Me, I am not a fan of bars and nightclubs, so I generally avoid them. I don't mind a pub in small doses, say for a meal. I do enjoy taking part in hobby and social groups, as well as some specific sports - if there's a Masters track meet within range, I'm there! :D

Today I had that experience, sort of. I went to a target shooting competition because I wanted to blast targets away and have some fun burning gunpowder. There happened to be people with guns over there
(duh). So at some point somebody pulled a piece of equipment from a bad and I broke in and asked "Hey dude, that looks cool, how much did it
cost you?"

There you have it, social interaction you don't have to force. You
start a conversation about a common interest because you were to a
place in order to practice that interest.

Indeed, and it's much better that way. :)


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"Things I learned when I stopped drinking."

One of the items on the list was "I didn't realize until I stopped
drinking that I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DANCE"

Hah! That's delightful.

That also reminds me that one of the things I've enjoyed with dancing is to look around, and attempt to imitate anyone you see doing something
interesting.

And, of course, this can go from something skilled to something
intentionally terrible.

I do wonder what drunk people are thinking, with the dance, when dancing.

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There you have it, social interaction you don't have to force. You start
a conversation about a common interest because you were to a place in order to practice that interest.

Yeah, that seems pretty solid.

And, I suppose, is why Meetup is oftentimes useful.

Though I do think that BBSs were good about having more general
conversations, but I suppose there's still various connected topics that wind up being common interests anyway.

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I dunno. I think I'd prefer an introductory thing where people talked about what living famous person they'd like to have a meal and conversation with.

Those ficticious ones do my head in, no thanks. ;)

Yeah, I don't know that there's a good solution. Especially as a one-size-fits-all sort.

But I chose that one in particular because it's fairly close to a study on increasing closeness between couples (as in, two couples becoming friends),
and they had various questions -- more on the ice breaker side of things, and more like this one, where theoretically it led people to learn something
about a person.

So, the scientifically-tested-to-be-helpful question was, "Given the choice
of anyone in the world, whom would you want as a dinner guest?"

...but I don't know how well-tested it is. And there are a variety of later, deeper questions that I just have no clue how to approach.

But, regardless, I'd still prefer most things over random names with random faces, all blurring together and soon forgotten.

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Me, I am not a fan of bars and nightclubs, so I generally avoid them. I

It kind of gives me anxiety to think about trying to order a drink at a busy bar in a nightclub.

I'm soft-spoken, inclined to let others go in front of me, etc., and the idea of pushing through a crowd for a drink...

Yeah, not my thing. Though it's also difficult to dance forever if you don't have a water source.

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Re: Re: Networks
By: Adept to Vk3jed on Mon Sep 28 2020 16:27:16

It kind of gives me anxiety to think about trying to order a drink at a

busy

bar in a nightclub.

I'm soft-spoken, inclined to let others go in front of me, etc., and the

idea

of pushing through a crowd for a drink...

That's something I always hated about busy bars. I used to just work my way toward any empty spot on the bar, and then make eye contact with the bartender,
give them a nod. Once they notice you, they'll usually add you to their mental queue.

Now I go out so rarely (even pre-pandemic) that this isn't a problem anymore. :)

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On 09-28-20 12:15, Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah, I don't know that there's a good solution. Especially as a one-size-fits-all sort.

A lot of those icebreaker situations are contrived. I prefer the old fashioned "arrive early and have a chat with whoever is there" approach. :)

But I chose that one in particular because it's fairly close to a study
on increasing closeness between couples (as in, two couples becoming friends), and they had various questions -- more on the ice breaker
side of things, and more like this one, where theoretically it led
people to learn something about a person.

So, the scientifically-tested-to-be-helpful question was, "Given the choice of anyone in the world, whom would you want as a dinner guest?"

I'm that person who really screws up the science. I think in quite different ways, and have recently discovered an imbalance that may impact this type of question. I'm also the one for creative avoidance when I sense a question is going to overload me (as that particular one would), and come up with a smart ass (and probably correct) answer like "We don't have people over for dinner that we don't know". :D

...but I don't know how well-tested it is. And there are a variety of later, deeper questions that I just have no clue how to approach.

Ironically, I can be better with those. :)

But, regardless, I'd still prefer most things over random names with random faces, all blurring together and soon forgotten.

Sometimes a little of self introduction about what a person does can create something that sticks in the mind. :)


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On 09-28-20 16:27, Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Me, I am not a fan of bars and nightclubs, so I generally avoid them. I

It kind of gives me anxiety to think about trying to order a drink at a busy bar in a nightclub.

That's just irritationg, always slow and long winded.

I'm soft-spoken, inclined to let others go in front of me, etc., and
the idea of pushing through a crowd for a drink...

Yeah, not my thing. Though it's also difficult to dance forever if you don't have a water source.

That's true, and bars don't offer a lot for non drinkers, espeially for someone like me who also avoids refined sugar, which rules out most soft drinks too. Water is always a good option for me. :)


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I'm that person who really screws up the science. I think in quite would), and come up with a smart ass (and probably correct) answer like "We don't have people over for dinner that we don't know". :D

I mean, that'd tell me something about you.

Sometimes a little of self introduction about what a person does can create something that sticks in the mind. :)

That's why I like to talk about how I'm a free-range marshmallow Peeps farmer.

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On 30 Sep 2020, Adept said the following...

Sometimes a little of self introduction about what a person does can create something that sticks in the mind. :)

That's why I like to talk about how I'm a free-range marshmallow Peeps farmer.

Yellow or Blue? ;)

Jay

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On 09-30-20 13:10, Adept wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I'm that person who really screws up the science. I think in quite would), and come up with a smart ass (and probably correct) answer like "We don't have people over for dinner that we don't know". :D

I mean, that'd tell me something about you.

LOL true. :)

Sometimes a little of self introduction about what a person does can create something that sticks in the mind. :)

That's why I like to talk about how I'm a free-range marshmallow Peeps farmer.

Go on. ;)


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On 07 Oct 2021 at 09:53p, apam pondered and said...

but it was very low traffic then - I of course forgot VKradio (actually I haven't seen anything from vk3jed in a while - hope he is ok..)

Yep same, I was wondering about him too.

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