Hey friends,

It's been an interesting year. Having spent 7 years as a business owner, selling the business, and entering the job market during COVID19 has been an interesting experience. Daily I watch my bank account reduce without a
source of income coming in, as a Sole Proprietor and/or LLC based owner does not qualify for unemployment in the state of Indiana, despite the tens of thousands paid in both business and income taxes annually for 7 years. The federal aid toward unemployment has come to a hault as of late (4 weeks now,) as a result of the frequent lack of funds the state is receiving from federal dollars. The state has to wait for the country to release funds, prior to
them paying us.

So desperately I began taking online classes for web development, and to be honest, have struggled with the pace. Complete lack of sleep, and
information being taught at such a fast pace that it's hard to take each
puzzle piece and complete assignments on time. I had a 95% in the class
until today, when I had to perform a white board and my brain drew a blank to syntax and terminology. This dropped my score to a 62%, and now get to start the class over again.

The good news is that my daughter is visiting from California, I'll be
meeting her for the first time. I'll have two weeks off prior to the next class starting, so I'll have un-interupted time to spend with her.

It's very frustrating to have the extensive experience I do, and to compete against people half my age. At 49, I'm finding it difficult to get the jobs I'm more then qualified for. And, I sometimes question if it's just not too late to reinvent myself; to think I can start a career in the tech industry. Maybe it's best to keep it a hobby. I dunno.

I've considered starting another business, however I draw a blank as to what
I can or should start with what state policies are doing to small business owners across the country.

I'm writing to vent I suppose. I surely look forward to a better day
tomorrow.

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

It's very frustrating to have the extensive experience I do, and to
compete against people half my age. At 49, I'm finding it difficult to
get the jobs I'm more then qualified for. And, I sometimes question if
it's just not too late to reinvent myself; to think I can start a career
in the tech industry. Maybe it's best to keep it a hobby. I dunno.

I'll never forget the one "Mall Job" that I applied for back when I was around 20 years old. At the time, I was working full time in IT at a large organization but on a 3-day per week work schedule (long days). Being young and having that extra time on my hands wasn't a good thing, so I wanted a second "fun job".

I applied at the local Electronics Boutique (which is now EB Games) in the mall. Just wanted to do it for fun as I never had a job like that before.

My application showed I already had lots of IT experience, was making 3 times the wage at EB Games, and the manager that I interviewed with apparently didn't
like the fact I was making more than him at my full time job. I told him it wasn't about the money, I just wanted to work there being I love geeky stuff. Ended up not getting the job, which ironically was the lowest paying job I never got. :) He couldn't get past why I would want to work there even though
I insisted it was because I wanted to for enjoyment.

It is odd how sometimes too much experience, and age can play a factor in the hiring process. Even though it should be about hiring "the best person for the
job", which is a broad statement, I do think there are other factors that are taken into consideration by some - even though they shouldn't. That is typically done by poor hiring managers and probably not a person you would want
to report to, anyway.

Hope you get things settled down with work as the options right now are no where near what they were just 6 months ago. Most companies I know are not hiring at all, in fact many are getting ready for layoffs and have been doing furloughs for months. Some sectors are doing great (anything to do with landscaping, outside work or construction) since none of them were shutdown and
in fact, got more work than normal. And of course the government sector, which
never shuts down and continues to get paid no matter what.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

I'll never forget the one "Mall Job" that I applied for back when I was around 20 years old. At the time, I was working full time in IT at a large organization but on a 3-day per week work schedule (long days). Being young and having that extra time on my hands wasn't a good thing,
so I wanted a second "fun job".

Funny you bring that up. I applied to be a Pizza Hut General Manager. I
hate the food industry, would have been a major step down from my past
careers; however I had good general management experience on my resume. They chose someone with "more experience." I thought 24 years in retail was
enough. lol!

Hope you get things settled down with work as the options right now are
no where near what they were just 6 months ago. Most companies I know
are not hiring at all, in fact many are getting ready for layoffs and
have been doing furloughs for months. Some sectors are doing great (anything to do with landscaping, outside work or construction) since
none of them were shutdown and in fact, got more work than normal. And
of course the government sector, which never shuts down and continues to get paid no matter what.

I've noticed that. Yet they keep their old job postings open. I applied for
a District Management Position at game stop; I get weekly reminders that a District Management Position is open at Game stop -- for 6 months now. Yeesh.

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

ironically was the lowest paying job I never got. :) He couldn't get past why I would want to work there even though I insisted it was
because I wanted to for enjoyment.

I found it difficult to get minimum-wage employment due to having a CS
degree, because they'd assume I'd immediately find something better.

It's reasonable enough to figure that, but given the turnover in minimum-wage employment, it seems like it'd be no riskier than all the other people such places invariably hire.

My thought, when typing this, is that people make a story for each person
they interview, and they choose the story that most appeals.

I know, based on what research is out there (it'd be nice if there were
more), that interviewing is generally not all that helpful for finding the
best person for the job.

It'd be nice if there were something better, but it generally seems like "ability on the job" and "ability at interviewing" are two skills that don't have all that much to do with each other.

...but now I think I'm digressing pretty far. Eh. Personally, I'm more
hopeful about escaping the US fairly soon, but I should probably just do an update post like some people have been doing.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

On 14 Jul 2020, Adept said the following...

I found it difficult to get minimum-wage employment due to having a CS degree, because they'd assume I'd immediately find something better.

I was unemployed last year, for about 6 months. My resume listed both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resume, I was
getting 4-6 interviews per week.

I'm not sure if they thing you'll try to take over the company, or leave the first chance you get, but it is very annoying...


---

Black Panther(RCS)
Castle Rock BBS

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)

On 14 Jul 2020, The Godfather said the following...

Hey friends,

It's been an interesting year. Having spent 7 years as a business owner, selling the business, and entering the job market during COVID19 has
been an interesting experience. Daily I watch my bank account reduce without a source of income coming in, as a Sole Proprietor and/or LLC based owner does not qualify for unemployment in the state of Indiana, despite the tens of thousands paid in both business and income taxes annually for 7 years. The federal aid toward unemployment has come to a hault as of late (4 weeks now,) as a result of the frequent lack of
funds the state is receiving from federal dollars. The state has to
wait for the country to release funds, prior to them paying us.

Ugh, man... I also own a very small business, and have been able to keep it going thru Covid. I hate hearing your issues with income help. SMH, murica.

So desperately I began taking online classes for web development, and to be honest, have struggled with the pace. Complete lack of sleep, and information being taught at such a fast pace that it's hard to take each puzzle piece and complete assignments on time. I had a 95% in the class until today, when I had to perform a white board and my brain drew a
blank to syntax and terminology. This dropped my score to a 62%, and
now get to start the class over again.

Jesus H... don't be afraid to supplement your learning with all the new
fangled tools we have. Youtube is great, and can teach better than some
classes (Just for fun) that I've taken. The point is retaining the
knowledge... doesn't matter where you actually get it from. -Also, if yer learning JS or similair, you'll be writing some badass Mystic mods when
you're done. :P lulz... perks.

The good news is that my daughter is visiting from California, I'll be meeting her for the first time. I'll have two weeks off prior to the
next class starting, so I'll have un-interupted time to spend with her.

What!!!! Thats awesome man... my two kids live in California, with Mom.. and I'm trying to iron out a visit soon. I know what its like to be away from the littles... congratulations! I don't know your situation, but I do know that
the moments ya'll get together and enjoy time; the best. CAN'T WAIT to hear
how it went, brother. :P Happy for you... nothing as good as family. :)

It's very frustrating to have the extensive experience I do, and to compete against people half my age. At 49, I'm finding it difficult to get the jobs I'm more then qualified for. And, I sometimes question if it's just not too late to reinvent myself; to think I can start a career in the tech industry. Maybe it's best to keep it a hobby. I dunno.

I've considered starting another business, however I draw a blank as to what I can or should start with what state policies are doing to small business owners across the country.

Just make sure you remain open to ANYTHING... I mean; most of my life I've
done the same sales, small business stuff that I know - but a lot of people
get the best breaks from somewhere they weren't thinking about... make sure you've eyes wide open and be ready to pop on the opportunity, idea, THING, chance... whenver it shows its damn face! And when it does, crush it and be successful like you know you can. What was your last biz? Can you do it better,stronger,faster,smarter,NOW?


pAULIE42o
.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

I was unemployed last year, for about 6 months. My resume listed both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resume,
I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.
I'm not sure if they thing you'll try to take over the company, or leave the first chance you get, but it is very annoying...

I don't list my degrees, just the school I attended. My problem is my experience: Territorial Business Manager, Director of Training, Director
of HR, District Manager, General Manager, etc... if I leave that stuff out, I show a gap in employment. I've been told to "dumb it down," however I'm unclear how I remove and explain a gap within employement that was not true
and or dumb it down .. But I'm about ready to replace each with "Team
leader," "assistant manager" "sales associate" just to not intimidate someone new to their perceived powerful position.

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

Ugh, man... I also own a very small business, and have been able to keep it going thru Covid. I hate hearing your issues with income help. SMH, murica.

It's ok for now, felt good to vent ;) However be aware, if owning your own business is your only source of income, and you sell it, getting a job for a corporation is difficult as apparently they perceive me as being one who will get the "itch" again and not be long term -- which isn't entirely false.

Jesus H... don't be afraid to supplement your learning with all the new fangled tools we have. Youtube is great, and can teach better than some classes (Just for fun) that I've taken. The point is retaining the knowledge... doesn't matter where you actually get it from. -Also, if yer learning JS or similair, you'll be writing some badass Mystic mods when you're done. :P lulz... perks.

I am starting over part time, the full time I felt as disorganized and
rushed. We spent 2 weeks on Java Script fundamentals, basics like grammar, functions, loops, etc... then only 3 days on DOM, Async, and API. I don't start back up until August 10th, so I'll have all of that time to play with
the cool stuff. I found fantastic youtube videos to help me with the "cool stuff," and see it relatively easy to translate over to python once I learn
it (so I can write my own Mystic mods ..) I'll have time to practice and play around with those now. The part time course will have different instructors who, to my understanding, don't get side tracked by stupid zoom chat comedy, who are not late to class every day, and who structure their workshop time so that within breakout groups we are all working on the same projects. The guy
I had was the opposite. "Workshops" were to be structured with specific
goals and for students to work together to solve problems. For this guy, he used it as an excuse to do "busy stuff" that had nothing to do with class.
So we would sit on zoom for 4 hours at time with zero chat nor conversation working on other things, yet had to stay on zoom to prove attendance (smh). The white boarding was to be this thursday; he spring it on us last last
Monday that it would be the following day. Literally all of us had stayed
up all night the that Sunday finalizing our Netflix replica site. I made a decision to sleep over study basic terminology and syntax. Then .. two days after the white boarding, he made the point value of the exercise worth twice that of the replica site most of us spent 40 hours working on -- we were not allowed to use bootstrap (smh again ..) We also had 6 assignments due that
"if turned in early he'd provide feedback and allow us time to fix," which he never did, matter of fact I have still have access to grading. This
particular class is over on Friday, he has yet to grade these assignments (worth four times that of the white boarding). I felt I wasn't getting the true value of the class and the way the program works; you have to start over PRIOR to the end of the first certification, otherwise it's several thousands of dollars to start over AFTER. So since grading had not occured, with 3
days left, combined with the lack of time on DOM, Async, and API's, I ceased the moment -- unhappily. However, I'm relieved I get to do so part time as
an 8 hour class day followed by 4-6 hours of homework each evening, is not ideal for a father of 4, whom also needs a job. SO .. feeling much better about it today. The reason I chose an academy was simply for "proof of performance," and the interactive "guidance" from classmates and occasionally instructors. Otherwise I think it would be harder to prove I possess the knowledge as opposed to simply copying anothers profile website ;)

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

learning JS or similair, you'll be writing some badass Mystic mods when you're done. :P lulz... perks.

Wait, what? How does JS help?

I've programmed a bit in Python2.7 for Mystic (an interstitial set of
random lightning bolts on my BBS, as well as a half-functional Go program),
and I think the Mystic scripting language uses Pascal, since that's what
Mystic is written in.

Is there something else you're talking about? Am I missing something?

Mind you, even if there's not something in JS that I'm unaware of,
programming at all certainly makes it easier to think about how to create a program, even if you don't know the syntax of a language.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resume,
I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.

Yeah, I did the same thing -- once I took the Master's degree off, I got the next job, and the interview feel was effectively, "Okay, I'm asking you these questions, but I've clearly already decided to hire you."

But it might've just been a different location. I didn't test the same number you did.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

(smh again ..) We also had 6 assignments due that "if turned in early he'd provide feedback and allow us time to fix," which he never did, matter of fact I have still have access to grading. This particular

That really does sound like a not-good teacher.

I do wonder how they choose the people they do, if they pay them enough,
etc.. I'm kinda surprised I haven't ended up in that sort of role (I tend to wind up in teaching roles regardless of the topic. And, I mean, I guess I
_did_ end up in that sort of role multiple times, but never teaching a class with assigned homework.), but I assume that most people in that sort of role are probably people who aren't all that far beyond where you are, and likely don't have much of a teaching background.

But then there are the surprises, and those who just excel at it, or spend
tons of time making it great, and it's a great experience.

Regardless, I hope it goes better for you the second time.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: The Godfather to paulie420 on Tue Jul 14 2020 10:56 pm

play with the cool stuff. I found fantastic youtube videos to help me with the "cool stuff," and see it relatively easy to translate over to python once I learn it (so I can write my own Mystic mods ..) I'll have

Well if you use Synchronet, you could put that javascript knowledge to use straight away!

I too am (trying to) improving my JS skills - havent really played with JS that
much before, but I think I've improved considerably as a result of writing my Ansitex interface to synchronet (which is how videotex used to work, but I'm making it available with ANSI first).

Its slow going, but I've got it functional (use register, login, page rendering
and interbbs page distribution) - I'm working on online editing now...

Got a way to go, but its fun chipping away at it...

If anybody wants a play, you can get to it here: https://alterant.leenooks.net/2019/01/21/ansitex/

Or directly at alterant.leenooks.net:24

...ëîåï

... All great discoveries are made by mistake.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Well if you use Synchronet, you could put that javascript knowledge to
use straight away!
I too am (trying to) improving my JS skills - havent really played with
JS that much before, but I think I've improved considerably as a result
of writing my Ansitex interface to synchronet (which is how videotex
used to work, but I'm making it available with ANSI first).

Its slow going, but I've got it functional (use register, login, page rendering and interbbs page distribution) - I'm working on online
editing now...

Got a way to go, but its fun chipping away at it...

If anybody wants a play, you can get to it here: https://alterant.leenooks.net/2019/01/21/ansitex/

Or directly at alterant.leenooks.net:24

Thanks Deon! I now have the time to create a second BBS. The Underground is mostly complete other then small details buried in sub menu's that still need basic customizing. So .. I wanted to try another software program as well with a different board name (name tbd,) and would prefer one that does use
Java Script (or support it,) and maybe even put it on one of my rasberry
pi's. I'll give your BBS a call today to check it out ;)

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

Funny you bring that up. I applied to be a Pizza Hut General Manager. I hate the food industry, would have been a major step down from my past careers; however I had good general management experience on my resume. They chose someone with "more experience." I thought 24 years in retail
was enough. lol!

Changing careers can be challenging, I'm sure. Never done it myself but I can certainly see how that can be more difficult with age.

I've noticed that. Yet they keep their old job postings open. I applied
for a District Management Position at game stop; I get weekly reminders that a District Management Position is open at Game stop -- for 6 months now. Yeesh.

There is also the "we have to post the job to officially interview 3 people" even though the decision on who is getting the job is really already done well before the interviews. Just have to follow the procedures for HR. Or you are the external candidate selected and an internal last minute person ends up with
the job.

Have seen lots of those types of things. In reality, relative experience and knowing people are the top two ways to land the opening.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

It's reasonable enough to figure that, but given the turnover in minimum-wage employment, it seems like it'd be no riskier than all the
other people such places invariably hire.

Every hiring manager is different. My top criterias are: aptitude, experience, and personality. All are essential to formulate what works best for the team I see being the best.

I also like to ask questions about hobbies to see if people are really passionate about technology vs. just doing it 9-5.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

I was unemployed last year, for about 6 months. My resume listed both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a
single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resume,
I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.

Often times it is good to have several resumes, all worded differently depending on the role you are after. For instance, I would use a vastly different resume if going for a purely technical role vs. management. If management, would change the achievements to focus on those aspects.

It is difficult to summarize your entire career in 1-2 pages, especially when many people really have multiple roles in the organization.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

That really does sound like a not-good teacher.

I do wonder how they choose the people they do, if they pay them enough,

I spent 15 years within adult education (Director of training/HR) and can say that too often people are put into training roles because of their depth of knowledge, and not their understanding of educating others. That was the case with this instructor. I also think they had not fully learned how to best utilize zoom's features. I would have: shut the chat feature off during lecture and utilized the hand raising feature, utilized the other TWO instructors on the call to manage breakout rooms for those stuck and needing help getting caught up and or getting various software working (VS, node, powershell or whatever someone was using, github, etc. etc. etc.) Lastly, I would have had pre assigned break out rooms for the 4 hour work shops, where each of the three major projects were worked as groups, with an instructor in each room to answer questions -- 3 groups -- 3 rooms. These were minor adjustments that would have made a world of difference in the groups ability
to learn and retain the information. Lastly, I would have started each day with a review of terminology and js rules.

So .. no harm. I'm just starting over with two new instructors, on their
part time program. I really want the most out of the program, and could not when up until 1-3am every morning trying to complete assignments after an already full time day. Maybe when I was in my 20's, but not at 49 with 4 kiddos, 3 of which are under 12. So .. I'm confident this next go around
will be a much better schedule for me, AND, I'll have plenty of time to watch
a few youtubers I feel do a great job explaining js.

-tG

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Underground [@] theunderground.us:10023 <-port (21:1/165)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: The Godfather to alterego on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:00 am

still need basic customizing. So .. I wanted to try another software program as well with a different board name (name tbd,) and would prefer one that does use Java Script (or support it,) and maybe even put it on one of my rasberry pi's. I'll give your BBS a call today to check it out ;)

Synchronet is very different to Mystic, so if you try it dont get alarmed about
it, since in many respects its very different. Rob has put a lot of work to make setting it up easier.

Installing on the Pi will mean you need to compile it - which can be a task for
the first time. So if you want to try it in docker on the Pi (which is how I run it), you can get up and running pretty quickly. All you need to do is install docker (its easy, and I have instructions on my web site), and then I'll give you a bash script to run synchronet.

Once you get comfortable with it you can venture on doing your own builds and tweaks if you are uncomfortable with docker.

Enigma is also javascript (IIRC) - so that's another option to try - which I havent yet myself...

...ëîåï

... One of the minor pleasures in life is to be slightly ill.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

I am starting over part time, the full time I felt as disorganized and rushed. We spent 2 weeks on Java Script fundamentals, basics like grammar, functions, loops, etc... then only 3 days on DOM, Async, and
API. I don't start back up until August 10th, so I'll have all of that time to play with the cool stuff. I found fantastic youtube videos to help me with the "cool stuff," and see it relatively easy to translate over to python once I learn it (so I can write my own Mystic mods ..)
I'll have time to practice and play around with those now. The part
time course will have different instructors who, to my understanding, don't get side tracked by stupid zoom chat comedy, who are not late to class every day, and who structure their workshop time so that within breakout groups we are all working on the same projects. The guy I had was the opposite. "Workshops" were to be structured with specific goals and for students to work together to solve problems. For this guy, he used it as an excuse to do "busy stuff" that had nothing to do with
class. So we would sit on zoom for 4 hours at time with zero chat nor conversation working on other things, yet had to stay on zoom to prove attendance (smh). The white boarding was to be this thursday; he spring
it on us last last Monday that it would be the following day. Literally all of us had stayed up all night the that Sunday finalizing our Netflix replica site. I made a decision to sleep over study basic terminology
and syntax. Then .. two days after the white boarding, he made the
point value of the exercise worth twice that of the replica site most of us spent 40 hours working on -- we were not allowed to use bootstrap
(smh again ..) We also had 6 assignments due that "if turned in early he'd provide feedback and allow us time to fix," which he never did, matter of fact I have still have access to grading. This particular
class is over on Friday, he has yet to grade these assignments (worth
four times that of the white boarding). I felt I wasn't getting the
true value of the class and the way the program works; you have to start over PRIOR to the end of the first certification, otherwise it's several thousands of dollars to start over AFTER. So since grading had not occured, with 3 days left, combined with the lack of time on DOM, Async, and API's, I ceased the moment -- unhappily. However, I'm relieved I
get to do so part time as an 8 hour class day followed by 4-6 hours of homework each evening, is not ideal for a father of 4, whom also needs a job. SO .. feeling much better about it today. The reason I chose an academy was simply for "proof of performance," and the interactive "guidance" from classmates and occasionally instructors. Otherwise I thin

Well, that guy sounds like a douche. :P Its kinda funny; logging on to your board... I guess I really did go down the different type of life path. :) My world IS pretty mafioso... so I tend to disagree - i always say knowledge
over how you got it is the way to go.... but I understand that in the normal world that might be the way that gets the position... MY types of positions
are more suited for your board; and it sounds like the capo is actually straight laced. :P

Hey!!! Glad that yer gonna met yer daughter tho - hope that the part time
round goes better, and know that you have a bunch of cats and mamas on the boards that will listen and hear ya when needed.

pAULIE42o
.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

Wait, what? How does JS help?

Is there something else you're talking about? Am I missing something?

So I know that enigma.5 and synchronet use JS.. (Jeez, I THINK!!) - and have written .sh scripts to do some things that you can do in python...

Listen, its probably me being wrong - don't mind little ole Paulie. :P

pAULIE42o
.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

On 15 Jul 2020, Adept said the following...

Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resu I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.

Yeah, I did the same thing -- once I took the Master's degree off, I got the next job, and the interview feel was effectively, "Okay, I'm asking you these questions, but I've clearly already decided to hire you."

But it might've just been a different location. I didn't test the same number you did.

Jeez man, that sucks... as stated, I run a small biz; and yea, when hiring I have looked over some applications/resumes with high levels of education. But why? Well- I just figured that the people wouldn't be a good fit for the hustler/salesmen positions I was hiring for. I hire high school kids, 18-20 years old; so I guess I just figured that I'd be wasting both of our time.

Its probably much smarter to communicate the job better, and allow the applicant to decide for themselves. But I have a hard time doing that; when I wanna hire 'wacky and crazy rockstars who love snowboarding and big buck$$' - lulz.

pAULIE42o
.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

That really does sound like a not-good teacher.
I do wonder how they choose the people they do, if they pay them enough, etc.. I'm kinda surprised I haven't ended up in that sort of role (I
tend to wind up in teaching roles regardless of the topic. And, I mean,
I guess I _did_ end up in that sort of role multiple times, but never teaching a class with assigned homework.), but I assume that most people in that sort of role are probably people who aren't all that far beyond where you are, and likely don't have much of a teaching background.

Even the colleges have been slacking - they hire less and less full-time; always trying to stay away from tenure. And you can really see it in the professors who actually do the teaching.

This whole country has been cutting corners for a long time - its just now, after a decade or so, we all get to see the fruits of that labor.

pAULIE42o
.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: American Pi BBS (21:2/150)

Re: What a week already ..
By: Adept to Weatherman on Tue Jul 14 2020 10:30 pm

It'd be nice if there were something better, but it generally
seems like "ability on the job" and "ability at interviewing" a
two skills that don't have all that much to do with each other.

Totally this.

The fact lots of human resources people come from the management
universe, in which soft skills are king, does not help either.
This people will reject a security guard because he is big and
bald and scary and his smile is not warm enough, regardless of his
actual ability to prevent troubles during his watch.

These are the people who will ask you if you know Angular and node
and PHP and don't have a clue what is the role of these
technologies in the firm. At all. It gets ridiculous. Like they
reject valid server admins because they don't know the most recent
Java in depth when their actual job would involve no Java at all.

So much freaking cry.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I also like to ask questions about hobbies to see if people are really passionate about technology vs. just doing it 9-5.

I think that works for the rockstar-level coder, but I imagine a
lot of people who are passionate about technology are less passionate about doing it after spending 8 hours doing so.

Certainly doesn't hurt, though.

But, regardless, this is all anecdote, not data, on the usefulness of interviews.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Adept wrote to Weatherman <=-

I found it difficult to get minimum-wage employment due to having a CS degree, because they'd assume I'd immediately find something better.

It's reasonable enough to figure that, but given the turnover in minimum-wage employment, it seems like it'd be no riskier than all the other people such places invariably hire.

I think it's more about not being able to effectively manage the
person than them being a flight risk.




... Abandon normal instruments
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Black Panther wrote to Adept <=-

I was unemployed last year, for about 6 months. My resume listed both
my Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my
resume, I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.

Interesting - I keep my A.A. degree on my resume to keep the bots
happy. Doesn't contribute much to my field given my work experience
since school.

I'm not sure if they thing you'll try to take over the company, or
leave the first chance you get, but it is very annoying...

My latest job searching pet peeve was with two words - "Hands-On". I
managed technical teams ranging from 1-2 people to 50 people
nationwide. I'd interview at smaller companies for
manager/director-level positions and the red-flags were all around
how hands-on I could be.

Mind you, I have always been a point of escalation - when they can't
figure something out, they come to me. I write end-user
documentation, and I wrote the knowledge base the techs used. I'm not
the manager they assumed I'd be.

Their solution was to put me in a group interview with the techs
who'd be working for me (and wanted another tech to help out with the
workload) or to Google "Technical Interview Questions" and ask me the
same questions over and over again.

One company went on to move 40 miles farther away, and the other was
acquired by Google, so it could have gone either way.




... Abandon normal instruments
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Weatherman to Adept on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:17 am

I also like to ask questions about hobbies to see if people are really passionate about technology vs. just doing it 9-5.

I've hired a few people in my time, and I take this as one of the most important attributes.

I've had graduates apply for jobs, that on paper were brilliant, but in the interview really couldnt spell "unix" (I jest) - and since I was hiring for technology jobs, I was looking for people who really had the skills. IMHO those
that are passionate have better diverse skills then those that have just completed a degree and have often just learnt from a text book.

...ëîåï

... A pnp transistor will be an npn.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Their solution was to put me in a group interview with the techs
who'd be working for me (and wanted another tech to help out with the workload) or to Google "Technical Interview Questions" and ask me the
same questions over and over again.

What is really fun is when you start getting asked textbook questions vs. real world scenerios. People that are textbook smart wouldn't survive a day where I
work. You have to think on the fly and all over the place.

Some people like to take deep dives into textbook questions like default administrative distance for routing protocols. Or spanning tree port states. That is all fine and great, but I'm more interested in real world scenarios and
how you would go about troubleshooting, designing, or fixing the issue.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

I've hired a few people in my time, and I take this as one of the most important attributes.

I've had graduates apply for jobs, that on paper were brilliant, but in
the interview really couldnt spell "unix" (I jest) - and since I was
hiring for technology jobs, I was looking for people who really had the skills. IMHO those that are passionate have better diverse skills then
those that have just completed a degree and have often just learnt from a text book.

I feel the same way, and it comes into play. People that are engineers and don't have a PC at home, or don't have any interesting tech projects they like to tinker with tells me they are not passionate about the field. I want passionate people because they continue to learn on their own, don't need to be
sent to school, and do it because they enjoy it.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

That really does sound like a not-good teacher.

I do wonder how they choose the people they do, if they pay them enough,

I don't know how it works anywhere else in the world, but here in Oz I discovered you have to be "qualified to teach", that is qualified in teaching.
This is no big surprise in itself, but what it then allowed you to teach was a little mind bending. You can in fact teach ANYTHING. Not the whole course but portions within any course yes.

I had the employment boffins trying to enroll me into a teaching course and I said, but the only qualification I have is painting why would I want to teach that? And thats how the above info turned up. So people that are teaching here may know NOTHING about the material they're teaching, and better yet have no interest in it either.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Black Panther to Adept on Tue Jul 14 2020 07:29 pm

I was unemployed last year, for about 6 months. My resume listed both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees on it. For 4 months, I didn't have a single interview. After deciding to remove the schooling from my resume, I was getting 4-6 interviews per week.

So maybe I should remove my BA, and just list my AA and see what happens.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

So maybe I should remove my BA, and just list my AA and see what

happens.

So whats an AA?
Alcoholics Anonymous?
Anonymous Alcoholics?
Automated Amputee?
Abandoned Adjective?
Abortive Aanachronism?
Angry Anglophile?
Apoplectic Apothecary?

I'm runnig out of A's for now

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]

--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Weatherman wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

Some people like to take deep dives into textbook questions like
default administrative distance for routing protocols. Or spanning
tree port states. That is all fine and great, but I'm more interested
in real world scenarios and how you would go about troubleshooting, designing, or fixing the issue.

I always asked a question that revolved around "You get a report that application X isn't working. How would you gather information to
determine the cause?"

I'd get some great questions from interviewees. The best?

"Was the report from Sam in Marketing? The guy with 100 icons on his
desktop and never reboots?"



... Twist the spine
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

alterego wrote to Weatherman <=-

I've had graduates apply for jobs, that on paper were brilliant, but in the interview really couldnt spell "unix" (I jest)

I had a recruiter tell me their client wanted someone who was an
expert in "TC and PIP".




... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: poindexter FORTRAN to alterego on Thu Jul 16 2020 07:43 am

I had a recruiter tell me their client wanted someone who was an
expert in "TC and PIP".

<chuckle>

What's funny about the graduates, is I was a mature age graduate (once), and when I did a unit called "PCs and LANs" (or something like that) - and this was
around 2002 - the lecturer was not only just reading from the text book, but when somebody asked her about something that she has just read - she didnt know
the answer (or gave the wrong one).

For half the sessions that I did show up for that topic, I used to jump in and correct her repeatidly.

So now when I interview somebody for a job, and they tell me they got distinctions for their IT subjects, I take it with a grain of salt.

...ëîåï

... The trouble with facts is that there are so many of them.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Adept to Weatherman on Wed Jul 15 2020 07:34 pm

I also like to ask questions about hobbies to see if people are really

passionate about technology vs. just doing it 9-5.

I think that works for the rockstar-level coder, but I imagine a
lot of people who are passionate about technology are less passionate about

doing it after spending 8 hours doing so.

Certainly doesn't hurt, though.

But, regardless, this is all anecdote, not data, on the usefulness of

interviews.

This is weird, but a lot of people who is not passionate is very fit for the job.

For example, I have to cover for the reception staff here quite often. I hate people. I don't understand people. I would strangle most customers.

When I am the one doing the service, every customer rates me 5 stars when doing
the quality quiz. Some only want to deal with me and not with the others.

I am also a bit sore about this passion assesment thing because last time I was
to an interview for an IT possition it was quite obvious I was the only one who
cared for
the firm and the projects being carried out, not to mention I was the only person in the group with a story of assembling hardware for jobs in his own house and a lot of
this stuff bosses like. I am still wondering why they dumped me, because insiders have told me the ones who they hired sucked hard.


--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I'd get some great questions from interviewees. The best?

"Was the report from Sam in Marketing? The guy with 100 icons on his desktop and never reboots?"

Lol! It seems all organizations have a Sam. :) We had a guy that would report his PC was slow and had hundreds of windows open (would never close a single email). He used to say that is how he remembered to work on them - by leaving the windows open. His screen was complete chaos.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

Hello Weatherman!

** On Thursday 16.07.20 - 21:15, Weatherman wrote to Poindexter Fortran:

I'd get some great questions from interviewees. The best?

"Was the report from Sam in Marketing? The guy with 100 icons on his
desktop and never reboots?"

Lol! It seems all organizations have a Sam. :) We had a guy that would report his PC was slow and had hundreds of windows open (would never close a single email). He used to say that is how he remembered to work on them - by leaving the windows open. His screen was complete chaos.

All that is probably a consequence of people let to their own devices and
not made aware of the alternative ways to do things.

I know a person that insisted (and still does to some extent) on having shortcut icons to every website that she is interested in. As a result,
the desktop screen is horrendous.

BUT.. she simply wasn't made aware how to use the Favorites feature in a browser.

--- OpenXP 5.0.45
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

I found it difficult to get minimum-wage employment due to having a C degree, because they'd assume I'd immediately find something better.

I think it's more about not being able to effectively manage the
person than them being a flight risk.

In what way would higher-educated people be harder to manage?

I'm genuinely struggling to even think of a moderately reasonable argument,
so I assume I'm missing something.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

this stuff bosses like. I am still wondering why they dumped me, because insiders have told me the ones who they hired sucked hard.

Your entire story had me going, "what is everyone else's perspective on
this?", because, yeah, the details you gave don't make a lot of sense.

Though if you were the only one like you in the given circumstances, perhaps that was a large part of why they chose other options.

But, yeah, odd.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Adept to Arelor on Fri Jul 17 2020 04:40 am

this stuff bosses like. I am still wondering why they dumped me,

because insiders have told me the ones who they hired sucked hard.

Your entire story had me going, "what is everyone else's perspective on this?", because, yeah, the details you gave don't make a lot of sense.

Though if you were the only one like you in the given circumstances, perhaps

that was a large part of why they chose other options.

But, yeah, odd.

I have the strong suspicion that a person I know, who works for the firm, talked trash about me to human resources and that is why they didn't get me.

That's only a theory of mine, which I have built on circumpstantial clues and hints, but there is reasonable doubt about it so it is nothing but a theory.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

All that is probably a consequence of people let to their own devices and not made aware of the alternative ways to do things.

I know a person that insisted (and still does to some extent) on having shortcut icons to every website that she is interested in. As a result,
the desktop screen is horrendous.

BUT.. she simply wasn't made aware how to use the Favorites feature in a browser.

True, in many cases it is a training issue. In other cases, some people are stuck in their ways of doing things and don't want to change.

This was never so evident until loads of people were forced to work remote and use video. Lots of crash courses in technology, processes, etc going on there.

- Mark
ÿÿÿ
--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)

That's only a theory of mine, which I have built on circumpstantial
clues and hints, but there is reasonable doubt about it so it is nothing but a theory.

I mean, there could be a dozen different ways that one person ends up irritating another, from your example to completely random things or just straight up, "their nose reminds me of my ex" sort of deals.

But, yeah, your situation seems odd without there being some dislike felt by someone.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Adept to Arelor on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:21 pm

That's only a theory of mine, which I have built on circumpstantial clues and hints, but there is reasonable doubt about it so it is

nothing but a theory.

I mean, there could be a dozen different ways that one person ends up

irritating another, from your example to completely random things or just straight up, "their nose reminds me of my ex"

sort of deals.

But, yeah, your situation seems odd without there being some dislike felt by

someone.

Maybe,

but the interview team seemed very positive to all through it. Something must have happened after the interview that changed their minds.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

BUT.. she simply wasn't made aware how to use the Favorites feature in a browser.

But the favourites "feature" is attrocious..... never found one I like to use.... I end up creating a local page of links first...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Re: Re: What a week already ..
By: Spectre to Utopian Galt on Thu Jul 16 2020 04:39 pm

So maybe I should remove my BA, and just list my AA and see what

happens.

Associates degree. Pre-BA degree.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Hello Spectre!

** On Friday 17.07.20 - 15:28, Spectre wrote to Ogg:

BUT.. she simply wasn't made aware how to use the Favorites feature in a
browser.

But the favourites "feature" is attrocious..... never found one I like to use.... I end up creating a local page of links first...

I probably meant "Bookmarks". Are they the same thing? The person didn't even realize they could use History if needed in a pinch.

I still see people using Google to enter a full url instead of using the
url box.

--- OpenXP 5.0.45
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

In what way would higher-educated people be harder to manage?

I'm genuinely struggling to even think of a moderately reasonable argument, so I assume I'm missing something.

A poor manager on shaky ground thinks of a skilled, intelligent
contributor as a threat instead of an asset.



... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Associates degree. Pre-BA degree.

I don't think I've ever heard of that one before...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

I probably meant "Bookmarks". Are they the same thing? The person didn't

I dunno, but the number of times I find ANYTHING in either of those locations or can get any kind of real display of history, is far outweighed by the ease of just searching it again... seems kind of wasteful and pointless in a way... but cest la vie...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

A poor manager on shaky ground thinks of a skilled, intelligent contributor as a threat instead of an asset.

Ah, okay. So half afraid that if the potential hire stuck around all that
long, their job would be under threat, because it makes them much more replaceable.

Yeah, that angle did not occur to me at all. Thanks.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Associates degree. Pre-BA degree.

I don't think I've ever heard of that one before...

I tend to think of them as things you get at a community college.

And, honestly, not necessarily Pre-BA. E.g., I did my undergrad, then went to culinary school for a year, and had I gone for another year it would've been
an associates degree.

But I have no idea how US-centric all that is. I spent a year in Germany, and
I never particularly understood their educational system, despite getting the general gist of things in various areas.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)