• Message Editor

    From Alterego@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Friday, November 22, 2019 07:24:25
    So I had a message (in another echo), that I went to reply to, but I couldnt quote the message.

    It was long these lines:

    ###
    a few chars
    <star> origin: a text line

    message paragraph that ran over several lines

    <triple dash> and a text line
    <star> Origin: normal origin line.

    ###
    You can translate <star> to * and <triple dash> as appropriate.

    The first <star> origin was on the boundary (ie: no space before the *), and the quote text only let me quote "> a few chars", not "message paragraph...". (Infact "message paragraph" was not in the quote window at all.

    While I know that <star> Origin should be the last thing on the message, in this case it was not proceeded with a space, and there was more text lines after it before the triple dash.

    I tested both slyedit and fseditor and both exhibited the same.

    I'm wondering if you can do some more validation that the first <star> origin is not the end of the text?
    ...ëîå*

    ... Diets are for those who are thick and tired of it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Alterego on Thursday, November 21, 2019 14:14:45
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Alterego to Digital Man on Fri Nov 22 2019 07:24 am

    So I had a message (in another echo), that I went to reply to, but I couldnt quote the message.

    It was long these lines:

    ###
    a few chars
    <star> origin: a text line

    message paragraph that ran over several lines

    <triple dash> and a text line
    <star> Origin: normal origin line.

    ###
    You can translate <star> to * and <triple dash> as appropriate.

    The first <star> origin was on the boundary (ie: no space before the *), and the quote text only let me quote "> a few chars", not "message paragraph...". (Infact "message paragraph" was not in the quote window at all.

    While I know that <star> Origin should be the last thing on the message, in this case it was not proceeded with a space, and there was more text lines after it before the triple dash.

    I tested both slyedit and fseditor and both exhibited the same.

    I'm wondering if you can do some more validation that the first <star> origin is not the end of the text?

    Take a look at the original message using smbutil or the 'H' operator command from the "Reading" prompt. How many data fields (aka dfields) are listed and what are their lengths?

    The separator used while importing message text is the tear-line: "<NL>--- " or
    "<NL>---<NL>" where <NL> is CR, LF, or CRLF. The tear-line itself should be part of the "tail" of the message along with everything else that follows it, while everything before the tear-line is considered the "body". You can only quote the *body* text of a message.

    <start> origin itself is not parsed a body/tail separator (e.g. in SBBSecho).

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #17:
    DCE = Data Communications Equipment (or Deuce, Stephen Hurd)
    Norco, CA WX: 62.4øF, 62.0% humidity, 0 mph WNW wind, 0.03 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Rampage@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Thursday, November 21, 2019 19:05:17
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Thu Nov 21 2019 14:14:45


    The separator used while importing message text is the tear-line: "<NL>--- "
    or "<NL>---<NL>" where <NL> is CR, LF, or CRLF.

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Alterego@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Friday, November 22, 2019 11:07:09
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Thu Nov 21 2019 02:14 pm

    Take a look at the original message using smbutil or the 'H' operator command from the "Reading" prompt. How many data fields (aka dfields) are listed and what are their lengths?

    header offset 002420h
    header length 385
    number 19
    thread_id 19
    thread_first 20
    data offset 007000h
    data field[0] TEXT_BODY, offset 0, length 17
    data field[1] TEXT_TAIL, offset 17, length 438

    IE: "Tail" is 438 bytes...

    "body". You can only quote the *body* text of a message.

    That I thought - my point being, for this message, the body of the message ended up in the tail. I thought because of the "asterisk Origin" beginning on new line.

    smbutil r19 tqw_sug shows this:
    ###
    Date : Thu Nov 21 2019 09:14 am UTC-5:00

    2 (Linux/64)

    X Origin: Stellar Darkness BBS, Toronto, Canada (1337:3/118)

    anyone would be agreeable towards creating an area for virtualization related ...

    YYY Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    X Origin: Stellar Darkness BBS, Toronto, Canada (1337:3/118)
    ###

    (I've changed asterisk to "X", and dash to "Y" so that nothing messes with this
    message. "..." indicates I've truncated the middle of the message.)
    ...ëîå*

    ... To know the world one must construct it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Alterego on Friday, November 22, 2019 08:53:01
    "body". You can only quote the *body* text of a message.

    That I thought - my point being, for this message, the body of the
    message ended up in the tail. I thought because of the "asterisk
    Origin" beginning on new line.

    smbutil r19 tqw_sug shows this:
    ###
    Date : Thu Nov 21 2019 09:14 am UTC-5:00

    2 (Linux/64)

    X Origin: Stellar Darkness BBS, Toronto, Canada (1337:3/118)

    Do these corrupted messages/dupes show up again?

    I had no problems to quote them in Golded.


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Rampage on Friday, November 22, 2019 08:58:09

    The separator used while importing message text is the tear-line:
    "<NL>--- " or "<NL>---<NL>" where <NL> is CR, LF, or CRLF.

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does
    not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were
    without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR

    Since when do tear lines look like this in Fidonet? The "--- " is not the same as the "-- \n" in Internet emails. Put the signature before the tear line or ommit the tear line altogether.

    2. Tear Line
    This line is near the end of a message and consists of three
    dashes (---) followed by an optional program specifier.
    This is used to show the first program used to add Echomail
    compatible control information to the message. The tear line
    generated by Conference Mail looks like:

    --- <a small product-specific banner>

    http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0004.001


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Rampage on Friday, November 22, 2019 19:36:00
    On 11-21-19 19:05, Rampage wrote to Digital Man <=-

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)


    )\/(ark

    ---
    ^^^
    Hmm, looks like a tearline to me. :P


    ... Recovering Taglinestealaholic. Please do not tempt.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Rampage on Friday, November 22, 2019 09:31:43
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Rampage to Digital Man on Thu Nov 21 2019 07:05 pm

    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Thu Nov 21 2019 14:14:45


    The separator used while importing message text is the tear-line: "<NL>--- " or "<NL>---<NL>" where <NL> is CR, LF, or CRLF.

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    Sure and SBBSecho supports that too.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #23:
    David St. Hubbins: I envy us.
    Norco, CA WX: 60.5øF, 71.0% humidity, 1 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Alterego on Friday, November 22, 2019 09:35:49
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Alterego to Digital Man on Fri Nov 22 2019 11:07 am

    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Thu Nov 21 2019 02:14 pm

    Take a look at the original message using smbutil or the 'H' operator command from the "Reading" prompt. How many data fields (aka dfields) are listed and what are their lengths?

    header offset 002420h
    header length 385
    number 19
    thread_id 19
    thread_first 20
    data offset 007000h
    data field[0] TEXT_BODY, offset 0, length 17
    data field[1] TEXT_TAIL, offset 17, length 438

    IE: "Tail" is 438 bytes...

    "body". You can only quote the *body* text of a message.

    That I thought - my point being, for this message, the body of the message ended up in the tail. I thought because of the "asterisk Origin" beginning on new line.

    smbutil r19 tqw_sug shows this:
    ###
    Date : Thu Nov 21 2019 09:14 am UTC-5:00

    2 (Linux/64)

    X Origin: Stellar Darkness BBS, Toronto, Canada (1337:3/118)

    anyone would be agreeable towards creating an area for virtualization related ...

    YYY Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    X Origin: Stellar Darkness BBS, Toronto, Canada (1337:3/118)
    ###

    (I've changed asterisk to "X", and dash to "Y" so that nothing messes with this
    message. "..." indicates I've truncated the middle of the message.)

    Was there a space before the start ("X") on that first Origin line? If os, then
    that's a malformed echomail message. It should not have multiple origin lines.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #52:
    PET = Personal Electronic Transactor (Commodore computer)
    Norco, CA WX: 60.5øF, 71.0% humidity, 1 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Oli on Friday, November 22, 2019 14:14:08

    On 2019 Nov 22 08:58:08, you wrote to Rampage:

    The separator used while importing message text is the tear-line:
    "<NL>--- " or "<NL>---<NL>" where <NL> is CR, LF, or CRLF.

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does
    not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were
    without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR

    Since when do tear lines look like this in Fidonet?

    tearlines in FTN always have been three dashes... the above was written on my SBBS and gated to this echo so it carries a QWK tear line and a QWK origin line... don't get them mixed up with FTN ones ;)

    The "--- " is not the
    same as the "-- \n" in Internet emails.

    no one is talking about email/news tearlines ;)

    Put the signature before the tear line or ommit the tear line
    altogether.

    not sure what this is about...

    2. Tear Line
    This line is near the end of a message and consists of three
    dashes (---) followed by an optional program specifier.
    This is used to show the first program used to add Echomail
    compatible control information to the message. The tear line
    generated by Conference Mail looks like:

    --- <a small product-specific banner>

    http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0004.001

    exactly... and note that it doesn't say that it is mandatory ;)

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... How does this work? Is there an orientation?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Tony Langdon on Friday, November 22, 2019 14:16:42

    On 2019 Nov 22 19:36:00, you wrote to Rampage:

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does
    not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were
    without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    )\/(ark

    ---
    ^^^
    Hmm, looks like a tearline to me. :P

    note the use of the phrase" "were without"... plus this is not my old FD/RA/FE system... this is sbbs...

    also note that i've not (yet?) hacked sbbsecho to remove tearlines and their contents when it scans messages out ;) ;) ;)

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... We have sex for a purpose. Last night she used me to time an egg.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Digital Man on Friday, November 22, 2019 14:18:50

    On 2019 Nov 22 09:31:42, you wrote to Rampage:

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does
    not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were
    without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    Sure and SBBSecho supports that too.

    supports no tearlines when processing inbound messages or supports removing tearlines and their contents completely from local messages being scanned out?

    )\/(ark

    Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set
    them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
    ... We have dust bunnies for pets!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Alterego@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Saturday, November 23, 2019 08:31:27
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Fri Nov 22 2019 09:35 am

    Was there a space before the start ("X") on that first Origin line? If os, then that's a malformed echomail message. It should not have multiple origin lines.

    No there wasnt, that's why I posted this, thinking their may be a bug somewhere..

    Although that makes me think - if somebody wants to mess with SBBS, do they just type asterisk, space, "Origin: " on a new line and that will mess with SBBSecho?
    ...ëîå*

    ... Why risk a hangover? Stay Drunk!!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Friday, November 22, 2019 17:00:04
    Re: Message Editor
    By: mark lewis to Digital Man on Fri Nov 22 2019 02:18 pm


    On 2019 Nov 22 09:31:42, you wrote to Rampage:

    remember, too, that in FTN tear lines are optional... the spec does
    not say they are mandatory... in fact, all posts from my BBS were
    without tearlines since the '90s at least ;)

    Sure and SBBSecho supports that too.

    supports no tearlines when processing inbound messages or supports removing tearlines and their contents completely from local messages being scanned out?

    Supports inbound messages with no tearlines.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #64:
    SMB = Synchronet Message Base (e.g. smblib)
    Norco, CA WX: 65.1øF, 42.0% humidity, 2 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Alterego on Friday, November 22, 2019 17:02:56
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Alterego to Digital Man on Sat Nov 23 2019 08:31 am

    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Fri Nov 22 2019 09:35 am

    Was there a space before the start ("X") on that first Origin line? If os, then that's a malformed echomail message. It should not have multiple origin lines.

    No there wasnt, that's why I posted this, thinking their may be a bug somewhere..

    Although that makes me think - if somebody wants to mess with SBBS, do they just type asterisk, space, "Origin: " on a new line and that will mess with SBBSecho?

    It wouldn't be a big "mess". Most folks wouldn't even notice except if they were to reply to such a message and tried to quote the body text (as you saw).

    The syntax for Origin is "<NL> * Origin: ", so without that space before the asterisk, it's not a valid origin line (and won't be parsed as such by SBBSecho). Perhaps it's just a display issue? Maybe look closer at the message using smbutil r?

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #42:
    ISDN = Integrated Services Digital Network
    Norco, CA WX: 65.1øF, 42.0% humidity, 2 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Alterego@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Saturday, November 23, 2019 13:24:57
    Re: Message Editor
    By: Digital Man to Alterego on Fri Nov 22 2019 05:02 pm

    SBBSecho). Perhaps it's just a display issue? Maybe look closer at the message using smbutil r?

    Yes, I do look at it with smbutil.

    So back to the original item I posted, the message renders fine - however when I quote it to reply, I can only quote what was before the asterisk "Origin:" line text.

    On that original message, I agree, it was not a proper origin line, since there
    was no space between NL and asterisk.

    However, I'm wondering why it was imported with "most of the message" in the TAIL instead of being in the BODY.

    Anyay, I posted this, in case this might be something you want to diagnose... ...ëîå*

    ... Feed the wolf as you will; he will always look to the forest.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Alterego on Saturday, November 23, 2019 08:48:41
    However, I'm wondering why it was imported with "most of the message"
    in the TAIL instead of being in the BODY.

    We had this problem before in FSX_NET and the messages were dupes from previous
    messages. IIRC Avon suspected a corrupt JAM base.

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to mark lewis on Sunday, November 24, 2019 18:21:00
    On 11-22-19 14:16, mark lewis wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    ---
    ^^^
    Hmm, looks like a tearline to me. :P

    note the use of the phrase" "were without"... plus this is not my old FD/RA/FE system... this is sbbs...

    Technically, this message was in the past to me at the time, and it is YOUR BBS. :D

    also note that i've not (yet?) hacked sbbsecho to remove tearlines and their contents when it scans messages out ;) ;) ;)

    Haha OK. :)

    So why do you not want tearlines but want a mile long sig? :D


    ... Help Conserve the Earth - it's the only planet with chocolate.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)