Hello All!

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

Any advice?

;-)

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hello Karel!

07 Dec 20 13:27, you wrote to all:

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

Any advice?

Don't! ;-) Slackware and Devuan are excellent alternatives that don't force systemd on you.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Good ${greeting_time}, Karel!

07 Dec 2020 13:27:28, you wrote to All:

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

Staying happy with a fresh sysVinit-based ALT build.

Any advice? ;-)

Possibly you have to try using that PoS yourself...


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... :wq!
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Karel wrote:

Hello All!

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

Any advice?

There's nothing wrong with that "systemd crap". The only problem is people who don't take time to understand how powerful it can be.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Re: systemd
By: Karel Kral to All on Mon Dec 07 2020 01:27 pm

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

I had a quick play with systemd on debian. It works well. It's possible to start a service like binkd or a BBS as a regular user rather than root.

Any advice?

My OS, slackware still doesn't ship systemd and I am fine without it but I am not a systemd hater.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Computers run on faith, not electrons.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello Nigel!

07 Dec 20 10:59, you wrote to me:

There's nothing wrong with that "systemd crap". The only
problem is people who don't take time to understand how
powerful it can be.

You are right.

It is not only systemd. dnf, firewalld, and some other things.

But I am not so correct reference guy. I was not happy even leaving ipfwadm that time :-)

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hello Karel!

07 Dec 20, Karel Kral wrote to All:

Any advice?

;-)

Yes. Stop wasteing our time and let's do something useful.

For example teach me if it's wasteing or wasting? I do write looking and watching but with "e" if it's boeing. What's the rule of that??

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hi! Kai,

On 12/07/2020 08:52 PM, you wrote to Karel Kral:

Any advice?

;-)

Yes. Stop wasteing our time and let's do something useful.

For example teach me if it's wasteing or wasting? I do write looking and watching but with "e" if it's boeing. What's the rule of that??

If your question is genuine then I recommend asking it in the ENGLISH_TUTOR echo. Otherwise, continue as you are as the visual humour is quite entertaining. ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Yikes! Who swiped me origin!?! (3:640/1384.125)

Hello Nigel!

07 Dec 20 10:59, Nigel Reed wrote to Karel Kral:

There's nothing wrong with that "systemd crap". The only problem is people who don't take time to understand how powerful it can be.

Well, I don't care much about its power. It's obviously the wrong tool for me, made for scenarios I don't have here. So all it does is bringing in new bugs, new problems, new issues to waste my time. There is no benefit.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 7:04AM up 48 days, 18:05, 8 users, load averages: 0.25, 0.43, 0.41

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: All carefully conceived (2:240/12)

Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

Hello Nigel!

07 Dec 20 10:59, Nigel Reed wrote to Karel Kral:

There's nothing wrong with that "systemd crap". The only problem is
people who don't take time to understand how powerful it can be.

Well, I don't care much about its power. It's obviously the wrong tool
for me, made for scenarios I don't have here. So all it does is
bringing in new bugs, new problems, new issues to waste my time. There
is no benefit.

Systemd isn't that bad. It's much better than Lennart's pulseaudio, now THAT sucks.

I moved to Systed with Fedora in 2013 or so, and really, the only four notable differences was the system booted a little faster, shut down a lot faster, the commands to start a service were slightly different, and the message log was accessed through journalctl.

It may nor may not be your thing. I'm usually sensetive to changes away from traditional tried and true software (ie, Gnome 3, pulseaudio, snap/flatpak), but systemd was not that a big deal.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Hello Dennis!

08 Dec 20, Dennis Katsonis wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Well, I don't care much about its power. It's obviously the wrong
tool for me, made for scenarios I don't have here.

Systemd isn't that bad.

People are reading but not understanding. It is that bad _for him_.

It's much better than Lennart's pulseaudio, now THAT sucks.

Come on, what kind of comparision is that? The ~1100K of a candle fire doesn't hurt that much because the sun is much hotter?

I moved to Systed with Fedora in 2013 or so,

And that's great. If it fits to your needs then enjoy using it.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Dennis!

08 Dec 20 21:54, Dennis Katsonis wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Systemd isn't that bad. It's much better than Lennart's pulseaudio,
now THAT sucks.

Tell me about it. OSS always worked fine for me. So did JACK.

I moved to Systed with Fedora in 2013 or so, and really, the only
four notable
differences was the system booted a little faster, shut down a lot faster, the
commands to start a service were slightly different, and the message
log was
accessed through journalctl.

As I said, this wholly depends on your use case. If you're running a notebook, I totally see the benefit. However, I have mainly servers and a few workstations to maintain. These are not booted for days, weeks or even months, and they hardly ever change their network settings. If they boot, hardware detection alone might take minutes, so I absolutely don't care about saving a few seconds afterwards during boot.
On the other hand, from day one I had a hard time making systemd *not* causing race conditions and actually wait for things that are required during boot on these machines, especially network connections and remote mounts.

but systemd was not that a big deal.

Your mileage may vary.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 1:16PM up 49 days, 17 mins, 8 users, load averages: 0.12, 0.19, 0.24

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Tall orders to fulfil (2:240/12)

Hello Karel!

07 Dec 2020 13:27, Karel Kral wrote to All:

Moving to Centos 8.x with all that systemd crap.

Any advice?

;-)

gentoo, pentoo, funtoo


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.12-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Alan!

07 Dec 2020 09:18, Alan Ianson wrote to Karel Kral:

I had a quick play with systemd on debian. It works well. It's
possible to start a service like binkd or a BBS as a regular user
rather than root.

----- binkd-1.1.ebuild begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2020 Gentoo Authors
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

# now edited with nano 2.3.2 :)
#
# 2. http://www.corbina.net/~maloff/binkd/
# ftp://happy.kiev.ua/pub/fidosoft/mailer/binkd/
# The mirrors:
# ftp://fido.thunderdome.us/pub/mirror/binkd/
# ftp://cube.sut.ru/pub/mirror/binkd/
# http://binkd.spb.ru
#
# Documentation:
# English manual for binkd 0.9.2
# http://www.doe.carleton.ca/~nsoveiko/fido/binkd/man/
# (c) Nick Soveiko <nsoveiko@doe.carleton.ca>
# Russian manual for binkd 0.9.9
# http://binkd.grumbler.org/binkd-ug-ru.htm.win.ru
# (c) Stas Degteff 2:5080/102@fidonet
# FAQ
# http://binkd.grumbler.org/binkdfaq.shtml

EAPI=7

inherit eutils

DESCRIPTION="Binkd daemon for ftn over ip" HOMEPAGE="http://www.corbina.net/~maloff/binkd/"
RESTRICT="mirror" SRC_URI="ftp://happy.kiev.ua/pub/fidosoft/mailer/binkd/snapshot/binkd-1.1.tar.gz"
LICENSE="GPL-2"
SLOT="0"
KEYWORDS="amd64 x86"
IUSE="aso bwlim +bzip2 doc ntlm perl proxy +zlib"
DEPEND="bzip2? ( >=app-arch/bzip2-1.0.6 ) zlib? ( >=sys-libs/zlib-1.2.3-r1 ) perl? ( dev-lang/perl )"
RDEPEND="${DEPEND}"

#S=${WORKDIR}/${P}
S=${WORKDIR}/binkd-1.1

src_configure() {
# we make the configure work
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/Makefile.dep" "${S}"
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/Makefile.in" "${S}"
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/configure" "${S}"
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/configure.in" "${S}"
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/install-sh" "${S}"
cp "${S}/mkfls/unix/mkinstalldirs" "${S}"
# now run configure
local myconf=
use proxy && myconf="--with-proxy"
use ntlm && myconf="${myconf} --with-ntlm"
use aso && myconf="${myconf} --with-aso"
use bwlim && myconf="${myconf} --with-bwlim"
use perl && myconf="${myconf} --with-perl"
# disable zlib if not enabled in use flags
if ! use zlib; then
myconf="${myconf} --without-zlib"
fi
# disable bzip2 if not enabled in use flags
if ! use bzip2; then
myconf="${myconf} --without-bzip2"
fi
econf ${myconf} || die "econf failed"
}

src_compile() {
# compile it
emake || die "emake failed"
}

src_install() {
# install conf.d
newconfd "${FILESDIR}"/binkd.confd binkd
# install init.d
newinitd "${FILESDIR}"/binkd.initd binkd
# make DESTDIR=${D} install || die
dobin binkd
# install docs
doman binkd.8
}
----- binkd-1.1.ebuild ends -----

----- binkd.confd begins -----
# /etc/conf.d/binkd: config file for /etc/init.d/binkd

# Options to pass to the binkd daemon.
# See the binkd(8) man page for more info.

# dont use root
# BINKD_USER="xpoint"

# change xpoint to what user dir is home dir
# BINKD_CFG="/home/xpoint/fido/config/binkd.conf"

# pid file must be in homedir
# BINKD_PID="/home/xpoint/fido/binkd.pid"

# options to run as daemon
# dont add mr here !

BINKD_OPTIONS="-CD"
----- binkd.confd ends -----

----- binkd.initd begins -----
#!/sbin/openrc-run

depend() {
need net localmount
use dns logger clock wlan
after bootmisc hostname
}

start() {
ebegin "Starting binkd"
start-stop-daemon --start --user ${BINKD_USER} --exec /usr/bin/binkd --pidfile ${BINKD_PID} -- ${BINKD_OPTIONS} ${BINKD_CFG}
eend $?
}

stop() {
ebegin "Stopping binkd"
start-stop-daemon --stop --user ${BINKD_USER} --exec /usr/bin/binkd --pidfile ${BINKD_PID}
eend $?
} ----- binkd.initd ends -----

i learned a lesson some years ago :)


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.12-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Alexey!

11 Dec 2020 02:02, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Benny Pedersen:

This example wasn't intended for idiots. However, nothing prevents
idiots to implement it in their usual manner.

thanks

As binkd is supposed to be run by different users, it has nothing to
do with openrc or any other init scripts.

it have

It seems like you are trying to look even more stupid than you really are. Rather you don't: someone may believe you.

remember be nice


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.13-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hallo Benny!

remember be nice

Heh, heh. Good luck with that.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

... Sibb æfre ne mæg wiht onwendan, þam ðe wel þenceð.
Kinship can never in any way be set aside, for one who thinks rightly.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.0(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello Maurice!

13 Dec 2020 14:37, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

remember be nice

Heh, heh. Good luck with that.

i will


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.0-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

-={ Datum en tijd in Ashkhabad, Turkmenistan: wo 16 dec 2020 6:20:25 +05 }=-

Hallo Benny!

i will

You will what?

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

... Cyning sceal on healle beagas dælan.
A king in the hall should deal out rings.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.0(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello Maurice!

15 Dec 2020 17:20, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

i will

You will what?

as previous there is no inteligent life in here :)

question: how to connect to 2:5030/786

i know its related to brokken dnssec, but not how to solve


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.0-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Good ${greeting_time}, Benny!

16 Dec 2020 04:54:34, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

question: how to connect to 2:5030/786
i know its related to brokken dnssec, but not how to solve

I know there's no such node in the nodelist.346 as of 11-Dec-2020


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Hello Alexey!

16 Dec 2020 16:20, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Benny Pedersen:

question: how to connect to 2:5030/786
i know its related to brokken dnssec, but not how to solve

I know there's no such node in the nodelist.346 as of 11-Dec-2020

thanks, link will be unsubscribed here, wish just Pavel had telled me on facebook :/

dns to elvete.com is still aktive and dnssec brokken


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.0-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Kai!

07 Dec 20 20:52, you wrote to me:

Yes. Stop wasteing our time and let's do something useful.

For example teach me if it's wasteing or wasting? I do write looking
and watching but with "e" if it's boeing. What's the rule of that??

Actually fighting that idea of journalctl. OK, nice, new, complex, holistic...

There is usualy one need: to keep logs for certain amount of time (based on SLA, based on law, etc.) Looks to me that design focused to zillion switches how to influence/keep disk space, but how to achieve that I have 100% of time frame logged is not so easy. Shall I try to calculate disc space? Shall I rather put there all space to be sure?

From man: "...Normally, time-based deletion of old journal files should not be required as size-based deletion with options such as SystemMaxUse= should be sufficient to ensure that journal files do not grow without bounds..."

Looks like I am not normal ;-)

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hello Karel!

Sunday December 20 2020 09:25, you wrote to Kai Richter:

....

Actually fighting that idea of journalctl. OK, nice, new, complex, holistic...

There is usualy one need: to keep logs for certain amount of time
(based on SLA, based on law, etc.) Looks to me that design focused to zillion switches how to influence/keep disk space, but how to achieve
that I have 100% of time frame logged is not so easy. Shall I try to calculate disc space? Shall I rather put there all space to be sure?

From man: "...Normally, time-based deletion of old journal files
should not be required as size-based deletion with options such as SystemMaxUse= should be sufficient to ensure that journal files do not
grow without bounds..."

Look at logrotate which is the normal product to control journal files in /var/log



Vincent

--- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.17/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)

Hello Vincent!

20 Dec 20 14:05, you wrote to me:

Look at logrotate which is the normal product to control journal files
in /var/log

The issue is that in default journalctl is not creating standard files in /var/log/journal to be rotated as usual (which was my behaviour before).

My understanding was that "vacuum" is done by journald itself.

But OK, I will figure it somehow...

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hello Karel!

Monday December 21 2020 12:05, you wrote to me:

Hello Vincent!

20 Dec 20 14:05, you wrote to me:

Look at logrotate which is the normal product to control journal
files in /var/log

The issue is that in default journalctl is not creating standard files
in /var/log/journal to be rotated as usual (which was my behaviour
before).

My understanding was that "vacuum" is done by journald itself.

But OK, I will figure it somehow...

I do not like using journalctl to read such logs so I allow a command to run to
use the older method and that way I can just look at an individual log file.

So I run logrotate for all including all server functions including mysql, db2,
oracle, http, ftp, BBS and the mainframe VM's along with the various security applications.


Vincent

--- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.17/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)

Hello Vincent!

22 Dec 20 16:17, you wrote to me:

I do not like using journalctl to read such logs so I allow a command
to run to use the older method and that way I can just look at an individual log file.

Me neither. But I do not want to resign. There must be something what I am missing - why people accepted systemd logging.

It is like SElinux. Most of howtos are starting "1) disable selinux...". But I rather play 2-3 hours more to find out what is wrong there and fix it (audit2allow, etc.) - and keep that nice function up and running.

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)