"The food was crummy. And the portions were too
small."

I've heard that review before. (G)

It's not always completely irrelevant and not
always completely unjustified.

Quite possibly so. I've probably encountered it from time to time, tho probably not as often as you have.

I do a lot more of go-off-on-a-flier meals
than most people. Speaking of which, I flew
coach on United back to California just now,
and they overfed us - two large full meals and
a sandwich snack on a 10-hour flight. This made
me think of a parallel phenomenon - "The food was
crummy. And the portions were too large."

the > garlic salt in favor of garlic powder.
Garlic salt has one advantage, though -
it'll keep virtually forever.

It does lose the garlic "punch" after a while.

Which for people who use garlic powder might be
a good thing.

No, she never would have considered it. The few times she did bake (white) bread, we scarfed it down fast. She never made it on a

regular > basis, thinking that she would probably be baking multiple loaves, every > day, if we ate it at that rate all the time. I told
her that after a

short while, we'd be used to it as our "every day" bread and not go

thru > it quite so fast. She was never convinced--but did enjoy the
home made > whole wheat bread whenever she visited us.
"Kept a-runnin' out."

I always had a good supply on hand.

I was referring to the previous (your mom's)
situation.

Conveniently, I'd scheduled a late January cardiology appointment

when I > had one in July so I'm covered now with both doctors.
Yeah, my eye surgery requires similar clearance,
tough when my health care is bicoastal. Eventually
I'll just shop around for a doc who will just say yes.

Turned out, my cardiologist retired--but the office, before it closed,
sent in an OK to the orthopedic office. Got the OK from my primary care doctor last week.

How thoughtful (really).

I know, but it's not the way we are. From talking to other people in/around Wf, we've found out this one is a real pain in the......

makes > me wonder how he stays in practice.
Some people like certainty, even if it's an
unpleasant one.

Gluttons for punishment it seems.

The evil you know rather tha the evil you don't,
more like.

Our possibility of snow is pretty much out of the picture now, but

it > has been cold. Stve just came in (7:45 pm) and said it's 37 outside.
The sun will come out - tomorrow.

And we'll have a high of about 35.

How far a deviation is that from the norm?

You can't expect any organization to be able
to fine-tune its behaviors, especially if it
essentially changes every two years. The
existence of a civil service helps sometimes,
but sometimes maybe not so.

Not always what we want but have to live with.

If it keeps the peace and things running at
not too high a premium, that's about all one
can hope for.

of butter. No parsley, no wine.

Wine goes well with, not necessarily in.
Actually, a splash of sherry or port might
do some good,

If you have one or the other on hand.

Which I generally do. I'd imagine you don't!

We actually do have a bit of white on hand--bought for some cooking.

It really does do some good, doesn't it?

Don't know, I'll maybe have to do the stuffed pork chops with chicken
broth to see. They were good with the wine--stuffing had a granny smith
apple and red onion (among other things) in it. Steve said the recipe is
a keeper. Next thing is maybe a beef stew with a bit of red wine.

Yes. In my view, the improvement is worth it,
and you don't need to use so much that it comes
anywhere close to becoming an intoxicant.

Happens to me mostly in Germany, where we
generally have a good old time between my
laughable German and their laughable English.

Steve speaks fluent German, mine will get me by. A lot of Germans speak decent English so we'd have no troouble communicating.

I have to use my really bad conversational German
mostly in taverns and restaurants where there's
semi-communal seating such as we've discussed here.
In my social circles, English is almost a given,
though I wish people would tolerate Europanto as
used to be claimed language would evolve into.

Title: Dr. Oetker's Rouladen

Not the way I do it--I use bacon slices and dill pickles, no

paprika, > lemon juuice or sour cream. But, like anything else,
there's my way and > everybody else's way of doing something. (G)
I don't think everybody else's was was Dr.
Oetker's way, either.

He seems a bit of a strange bird anyway.

As strange as Kellogg and Post? I don't know
anything about him except that he had a food
business.

---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.01

Title: Bienenstich
Categories: German
Yield: 12 servings

PASTRY 4 ts Baking powder
3 1/2 oz (100g) cottage cheese, well TOPPING:
Pressed out 1 3/4 oz To 2 1/2 (50-75g)butter
4 tb Milk 3 1/2 oz (100g) sugar
4 tb Oil Packet vanillin sugar
2 tb Heaping of sugar 1 tb Milk
Pinch salt 3 1/2 oz (100g) almonds
(blanched and
7 oz (200g) flour Thinly sliced)

For the Pastry: rub the cottage cheese, if desired, through a fine sieve
and mix with the milk, oil, sugar and salt. Mix and sieve together the
flour and the baking powder and add to the mixed ingredients, a little at
a
time until slightly more than half has been used. Knead in the rest of
the
flour. Grease a round cake tin with a removable rim, 10 in. (26cm) in
diameter and roll out the pastry to fit the base.

For the Topping: melt together the butter, sugar and vanillin sugar and
add
the milk; stir in the almonds and set aside to cool. If it should be too
firm when cold, add a little milk. Spread evenly over the pastry.

OVEN: moderately hot Baking time: about 20 minutes

Alternatively the cake may be filled with buttercream, made from 1/2
packet
Oetker Pudding Powder, Vanilla Flavour, 2 well heaped tbs. sugar, 1/2
pint
cold milk and 3 1/2 oz. (100g) butter. When the cake is quite cold, cut
it
horizontally into two halves, spread the filling on the bottom half and
lay
the other on top.

Source unknown

-----
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)

On 01-28-19 10:31, Michael Loo <=-
spoke to Ruth Haffly about 875 was was overflow and <=-

Don't know, I'll maybe have to do the stuffed pork chops with chicken
broth to see. They were good with the wine--stuffing had a granny smith apple and red onion (among other things) in it. Steve said the recipe is
a keeper. Next thing is maybe a beef stew with a bit of red wine.

Yes. In my view, the improvement is worth it,
and you don't need to use so much that it comes
anywhere close to becoming an intoxicant.

In fact, on some of the cooking shows that we watch (e.g. Chopped), the
judges will make a critisism for dishes with wine where they can taste
the alcohol. OTOH -- does one really taste the alcohol itself, or the
other things that are in the wine?


MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05

Title: Shrimp A' La Peter Kaiser
Categories: Shrimp, Appetizer, Mushroom
Yield: 6 Servings

2 tb Butter
1/2 c Finely chopped onion
sm Pinch each of fresh or dried
Sage, thyme, dill and
Oregano
pn Freshly ground black pepper
1/4 ts Crushed bay leaves
1/4 ts Salt
1/4 c Dry white wine
1 sm Tomato, squeezed to release
Juices and seeds, finely
Chopped
6 lg Domestic mushrooms (about 2
oz Total), gently boiled 5
Minutes to soften, finely
Chopped
2 oz Finely chopped chantarelle
Mushrooms
Cafe de Paris Butter
12 Raw jumbo shrimp (1-1/2 to 2
oz Each) shelled but with
Tails
Left on, if desired,
Deveined, butterflied (cut
Almost in half)
Lengthwise, then opened and
Flattened out.
1/4 c Fine dry white bread crumbs
3 tb Melted butter
Paprika to taste

MMMMM-------------------CAFE DE' PARIS BUTTER------------------------
1/4 lb Softened butter
1 Egg yolk, lightly beaten
1 sm Anchovy fillet
1 sm Clove garlic, mashed
1 1/2 ts Fresh lemon juice
1/2 ts Chopped fresh parsley
1/2 ts Dry mustard
1/4 ts Freshly ground black pepper
1/8 ts Fresh or dried tarragon
Leaves
1/8 ts Worcestershire sauce
pn Fresh or dried marjoram

Melt butter over medium-high heat in a heavy saucepan. Add the
chopped onion and all herbs and spices. Saute' 2 to 3 minutes.
Swirl in the white wine, add chopped tomato and domestic and
chantarelle mushrooms. Boil gently 5 minutes or so, stirring
frequently, until most of the pan juices have evaporated. Remove
from heat and let cool.

When room temperature, stir the mushroom mixture into the prepared
Cafe' de Paris butter. Place butterflied shrimp on a lightly
buttered baking sheet and top with generous tablespoons of stuffing.
Crown with approximately 1 tsp. bread crumbs on each shrimp, drizzle
over the melted butter, and color with a small amount of paprika.
(Shrimp may be refrigerated several hours at this point.)
Bake shrimp on the top rack of a preheated 300 degree oven 15 to 20
minutes, until the shrimp is just cooked through. Serve, 2 shrimp
per person, while hot.

To make the Cafe de' Paris Butter:

Combine all ingredients in a blender or bowl. Blend or beat with
an electric mixer 2 or 3 minute, until the mixtue is soft, light, and
well combined. Refrigerate butter, covered until ready to use.

From: Hotel Triumph-Sheraton Toronto, Canada
From: Pat Stockett Date: 01-05-97
Fido-National Cooking Echo

MMMMM


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:27:12, 29 Jan 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 2019 Jan 29 02:15:06, you wrote to Michael Loo:

In fact, on some of the cooking shows that we watch (e.g. Chopped), the judges will make a critisism for dishes with wine where they can taste
the alcohol. OTOH -- does one really taste the alcohol itself, or the other things that are in the wine?

if the dishes are cooked properly, it should... alcohol boils at ~173F whereas water boils at 212F...

i remember doing an experiment in junior high (IIRC) where the teacher poured water and alchol into a flask and put it over a bunsen burner with a stopper in
the top... a thermometer went through one hole in the stopper all the way down to the liquid... the other hole had a glass tube that only went a little way into the flask... that tube fed into a spiral glass tube that was inside a larger tube which had cool water running through it... the end of the spiral tube was placed over a beaker to catch whatever came out... basically a simple distilling setup...

when the temperature reached ~173F, the liquid in the flask started bubbling and "steam" was forming in the top of the flask... the termperature stopped going up which was a big surprise to us students... the steam was exiting through the glass tube and being cooled by the water... that steam was alcohol and after some time, the steaming and bubbling in the flask stopped... at this point, the beaker was switched out for another one once all the liquid in the spiral cooling tube had drained...

as we watched, the temperature of the liquid in the flask started to rise again... it rose until it reached 212F where it stayed and the liquid in the flask started bubbling and steaming again... again the steam was cooled and condensed back into a liquid which was collected in the second beaker... almost
all of the liquid was cooked out of the flask and the fire was turned off to prevent overheating and possible breakage...

the amount of liquid in the first beaker was the same amount as the alcohol that had been mixed in with the water in the flask when the experiment started... it definitely smelled like alcohol, too... the amount of liquid in the second beaker matched the amount of water that was put in the flask at the start...

probably the most surprising thing to us students was that the temperature rose
until it reached the boiling point of the first liquid and it stayed there without rising or dropping until that liquid was all cooked out...

so, while i was writing this, i had to look up the temperatures and i found this...

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/11/alcohol-doesnt-really-cook-out-of-food-in-most-cases/
or
https://tinyurl.com/c7twpgt

i'm not so sure about their conclusions but i can see where some of the other material in food may affect if the alcohol does actually boil out or not... i would think that we'd see the same thing with the temperatures if they were measured like we did in our school experiment... basically staying at 173F for a while until all the alcohol was boiled off and then rising again...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Looking back on 2004 we have to conclude that it could have been worse.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Dale Shipp wrote to Michael Loo <=-

Don't know, I'll maybe have to do the stuffed pork chops with chicken
broth to see. They were good with the wine--stuffing had a granny smith apple and red onion (among other things) in it. Steve said the recipe is
a keeper. Next thing is maybe a beef stew with a bit of red wine.

Yes. In my view, the improvement is worth it,
and you don't need to use so much that it comes
anywhere close to becoming an intoxicant.

In fact, on some of the cooking shows that we watch (e.g. Chopped), the judges will make a critisism for dishes with wine where they can taste
the alcohol. OTOH -- does one really taste the alcohol itself, or the other things that are in the wine?

That raised an interesting question - so I did some research. The answer
I am including here is typical of the answers I found.

FROM: https://www.quora.com/What-does-alcohol-taste-like

"Walt Huber, I'm a wine maker who has (hopefully) learned how to slowly
sip and enjoy wine.

Answered Dec 4, 2017 · Author has 9.3k answers and 3.5m answer views

Pure alcohol has no taste (that human taste buds pick up). Vodka is
probably as close to alcohol by itself (with water as the only other ingredient). (Unless it is a flavored Vodka where something like a
fruit flavor has been added.) When you drink alcoholic drinks the
flavor comes from what else in included in that drink or beverage.

Because alcohol is very dehydrating (likes to suck up water) when you
put flavorless alcohol in your mouth, you will experience a "burning" sensation. The higher percent of alcohol (concentration) the "hotter"
it will seem. You can experience this mild burning when rinsing your
mouth out with mouth wash that contains alcohol."

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06

Title: Pork Chops w/Mushroom Bourbon Cream Sauce
Categories: Pork, Dairy, Wine, Booze
Yield: 4 Servings

MMMMM---------------------------SAUCE--------------------------------
2 tb Olive oil
1 lb Button mushrooms; sliced
1/4 c Chopped onions
2 lg Garlic cloves; chopped
1/2 c Dry white wine
1 c Chicken stock
1/2 c Heavy cream
1/4 c Bourbon whisky
Salt & pepper

MMMMM---------------------------CHOPS--------------------------------
1 lg Egg
2 tb Water
4 (8 oz) center-cut pork chops
All purpose flour
2 c Fresh bread crumbs
3 tb Olive oil or grapeseed oil
2 tb Minced fresh basil

Watch out. This mushroom bourbon cream sauce is so
addictive, you'll want to eat it by the cupfuls.
Mushrooms and onions browned, then cooked in wine
reduction, then a reduction of stock and Bourbon,
then cream. Basil is added at the very end. Oo la la.

This recipe is from my father's recipe collection (cut
out from magazines - can't tell which one this is from)
We've made it a few times. The one thing you might have
trouble with is getting the sauce to thicken. It takes
a strong boil to reduce all of that liquid, but it's
worth it.

Prepare the sauce. Sauté onions, garlic, and mushrooms
in 2 TB of oil in a large skillet on medium high heat
until the mushrooms are browned - about 10-15 minutes.
Add the wine, increase the heat to high, and boil down
until the liquid is reduced to almost a glaze, about 4
minutes. Add the chicken stock, and bourbon, boil until
reduced by two thirds. Add the cream and simmer several
minutes until the sauce thickens.

Prepare the pork. Whisk an egg and 2 TB water in a
shallow baking dish. Sprinkle both sides of pork chops
with salt and pepper. Dip chops into the flour, then egg
mixture, then breadcrumbs, coating completely.

Heat olive or grapeseed oil in a large skillet over
medium-high heat. Add the pork chops and cook until
brown, about 4 minutes per side. Turn the chops one
more time, lower the heat to low, cover, and cook an
additional 5 minutes.

Alternatively you can put the chops in a 400°F/205°C
oven for 5-8 more minutes.

When about to serve the pork, bring the sauce to a
simmer and add the chopped basil to it. Season to taste
with salt and fresh ground black pepper.

Serves 4.

Note: We like our pork still a little pink (and tender).
What is important is the internal temperature of the
meat, to kill any pathogens. Trichinosis hasn't been
seen in domestic pork for over 50 years, and if it were
there, it would be killed at 137°F/59°C. The California
Uniform Retail Food Facilities Law calls for pork to be
cooked to an internal temp of 145°F/63°C, the USDA
recommends 160°F/71°C. If you cook your pork to 160,
it will end up tasting like shoe leather. We generally
take it off the heat at 140. -- Elise

FROM: http://simplyrecipes.com/recipes

MM Format by Dave Drum - 15 August 2009

Uncle Dirty Dave's Archives

MMMMM

... "I just love Chinese food. My favourite dish is number 27" - Clement Atlee

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - Oshawa, ON, CA - http://tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)

Hi Michael,

"The food was crummy. And the portions were too
small."

I've heard that review before. (G)

It's not always completely irrelevant and not
always completely unjustified.

Quite possibly so. I've probably encountered it from time to time,

tho > probably not as often as you have.

I do a lot more of go-off-on-a-flier meals
than most people. Speaking of which, I flew
coach on United back to California just now,
and they overfed us - two large full meals and
a sandwich snack on a 10-hour flight. This made
me think of a parallel phenomenon - "The food was
crummy. And the portions were too large."

Flying back from where? If it was overseas, they have to feed you, but
that was quite a bit of food. How long was the flight?

the > garlic salt in favor of garlic powder.
Garlic salt has one advantage, though -
it'll keep virtually forever.

It does lose the garlic "punch" after a while.

Which for people who use garlic powder might be
a good thing.

Use more, get rid of it faster? (G)

No, she never would have considered it. The few times she did

bake > ML> > (white) bread, we scarfed it down fast. She never made
it on a > ML> regular > basis, thinking that she would probably be
baking multiple > ML> loaves, every > day, if we ate it at that rate
all the time. I told > ML> her that after a

short while, we'd be used to it as our "every day" bread and

not go > ML> thru > it quite so fast. She was never convinced--but
did enjoy the > ML> home made > whole wheat bread whenever she
visited us.

"Kept a-runnin' out."

I always had a good supply on hand.

I was referring to the previous (your mom's)
situation.

She never got it.

Conveniently, I'd scheduled a late January cardiology

appointment > ML> when I > had one in July so I'm covered now with
both doctors.

Yeah, my eye surgery requires similar clearance,
tough when my health care is bicoastal. Eventually
I'll just shop around for a doc who will just say yes.

Turned out, my cardiologist retired--but the office, before it

closed, > sent in an OK to the orthopedic office. Got the OK from my primary care > doctor last week.

How thoughtful (really).

Quite so, actually.

I know, but it's not the way we are. From talking to other

people > ML> > in/around Wf, we've found out this one is a real pain
in the...... > ML> makes > me wonder how he stays in practice.

Some people like certainty, even if it's an
unpleasant one.

Gluttons for punishment it seems.

The evil you know rather tha the evil you don't,
more like.

We didn't know when we first moved here. Wish we had, would have not
wasted our time with him and gone to the one we did have for a few years
(found after the visit to the "wrong" doctor).

Our possibility of snow is pretty much out of the picture

now, but > ML> it > has been cold. Stve just came in (7:45 pm) and
said it's 37 > ML> outside.

The sun will come out - tomorrow.

And we'll have a high of about 35.

How far a deviation is that from the norm?

About 20 degrees below normal.

You can't expect any organization to be able
to fine-tune its behaviors, especially if it
essentially changes every two years. The
existence of a civil service helps sometimes,
but sometimes maybe not so.

Not always what we want but have to live with.

If it keeps the peace and things running at
not too high a premium, that's about all one
can hope for.

Sigh!

If you have one or the other on hand.

Which I generally do. I'd imagine you don't!

We actually do have a bit of white on hand--bought for some

cooking. > ML> It really does do some good, doesn't it?

Don't know, I'll maybe have to do the stuffed pork chops with

chicken > broth to see. They were good with the wine--stuffing had a granny smith > apple and red onion (among other things) in it. Steve
said the recipe is > a keeper. Next thing is maybe a beef stew with a
bit of red wine.

Yes. In my view, the improvement is worth it,
and you don't need to use so much that it comes
anywhere close to becoming an intoxicant.

May try half a cup or so at first, up or down it accordingly.

Happens to me mostly in Germany, where we
generally have a good old time between my
laughable German and their laughable English.

Steve speaks fluent German, mine will get me by. A lot of Germans

speak > decent English so we'd have no troouble communicating.

I have to use my really bad conversational German
mostly in taverns and restaurants where there's
semi-communal seating such as we've discussed here.
In my social circles, English is almost a given,
though I wish people would tolerate Europanto as
used to be claimed language would evolve into.

But it probably never will.

Title: Dr. Oetker's Rouladen

Not the way I do it--I use bacon slices and dill pickles, no

paprika, > lemon juuice or sour cream. But, like anything else, there's my way and > everybody else's way of doing something.

(G) > ML> I don't think everybody else's was was Dr.

Oetker's way, either.

He seems a bit of a strange bird anyway.

As strange as Kellogg and Post? I don't know
anything about him except that he had a food
business.

Same here.

Title: Bienenstich
Categories: German
Yield: 12 servings

Rachel made one of those when she was taking German in high school for a
class party. Recipe came from a cook book I'd bought over there--put out
by a German lady who'd married a GI.

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Some are so educated they can bore you on almost any subject

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Hello mark.

29 Jan 19 05:50, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

i'm not so sure about their conclusions but i can see where some of
the other material in food may affect if the alcohol does actually
boil out or not... i would think that we'd see the same thing with the temperatures if they were measured like we did in our school
experiment... basically staying at 173F for a while until all the
alcohol was boiled off and then rising again...

I've been told the only way to avoid alcohol in food is to not cook with it as like you mentioned, the alcohol never completely gets out of the food. Better safe than sorry, I guess.

Later,
Sean

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Get your COOKING fix here! - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)