03-26-18 10:11 Daryl Stout wrote to HOLGER GRANHOLM about Re: High ASCII Characters
Howdy! Daryl, Holger, et al,

@MSGID: <5AB95C1F.1840.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <5AB8C4CF.1836.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
Holger,

That's because Windows Notepad can't recognize the high ascii
characters.

That is not true. I can write a text file in PCDOS or OS/2 and read all
the accented (high-ASCII) characters in Notepad and its siblings in
various versions of Windows, as well as print them out from those pgms.

Then, Ed must have a different setting with Notepad, or it won't show them within MultiMail.

I was reading XP's Help and Support pages to see how to make the Band-Aid graphic in Notepad and read something about the Character Map.

I looked in Character Map for the Characters I could use to make an image
of a Band-Aid in Notepad and found two of them I could use.
In the Grid, I found the Full Block character is U + 2588
and the Light Shade Character is U + 2591

Using Notepad I held the Alt Key and entered 2588 on the Keypad a total
of 5 times. (I only entered the digits, I didn't type the letter U first).

Next I held the Alt Key and entered 2591 a total of 5 times.

Again I keyed in the Code Alt 2588 5 times.

What I saw on the screen looked like the image that was in the Johnson and Johnson Tagline I used in a message some time ago.

The word Band-Aid is a brand name for a Adhesive Bandage the Johnson &
Johnson Company sells in the U.S.A.

Sorry for the confusion, Holger, I thought the word Band-Aid was a common
word that everyone knew.

The editor that MultiMail DOS uses is called MS-DOS Editor, Version 2.0.026, Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1995.

It doesn't show the same character(s).
It shows ...............

On my screen the character Alt 2588 looks like a small capital L letter,
and the character Alt 2591 looks like it is Heart shaped but the top is flat, it looks more like a Triangle with the pointed end at the bottom.

I'm wondering if everyone sees the same thing that I see on my screen.
Let Me know. Thanks.

73 de Ed W9ODR . .


... After a snowstorm everybody's lawn looks the same.
--- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
* Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)

03-27-18 09:45 Holger Granholm wrote to Daryl Stout about Re: High ASCII Characters
Howdy! Holger,

@MSGID: <5ABB67CC.1842.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
In a message on 03-26-18 Daryl Stout said to Holger Granholm:

Hi Daryl,

That's because Windows Notepad can't recognize the high ascii
characters.

That is not true. I can write a text file in PCDOS or OS/2 and read
and printout all those high-ASCII characters from Notepad.

Then, Ed must have a different setting with Notepad, or it won't
show them within MultiMail.

B4 Ed can read the PC8 characters they have passed through Fidonet and
the QWK-processing program at his host as well as his QWK-reader.

-SNIP-

Re: the OS/2 of MultiMail that You use, MR/2 2.30 as seen in Your Tagline:

.. 200-year old champagne and beer, found on the Aland Islands.
-- MR/2 2.30

I was wondering if MultiMail had released a newer version of their DOS
or Windows program, so I looked and saw the latest version shown on their
page was v. 0.49 .

Since I've been using MM v. 0.50 for DOS or Windows that seemed funny to me
not to see any later version than v. 0.49 in their list.

I looked around some of the pages and saw a message William McBrine wrote
about a newer OS/2 version of MultiMail.

https://sourceforge.net/p/multimail/mailman/multimail-announce/

His message was posted on 2003-05-09 17:44:50 .
Subject: MMail-ann: Fix for OS2 port of MultiMail

I have seen You write about being comfortable with the MM version that
You've been using but I thought to write You about the newer version
in case You may want to investigate it for Yourself.

Now I'm going to go look to see when I D/L'd the 0.50 versions of MM.
Not seeing them on the Official Page has Me wondering.......

73 de Ed W9ODR . .


... A horse may go freely to water, but a pencil must be lead.
--- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
* Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)

In a message on 04-10-18 Ed Vance said to Holger Granholm:

GE Ed,

That is not true. I can write a text file in PCDOS or OS/2 and read
and printout all those high-ASCII characters from Notepad.

Then, Ed must have a different setting with Notepad, or it won't
show them within MultiMail.

I haven't set any settings in Notepad and don't know if that's possible.

Re: the OS/2 of MultiMail that You use, MR/2 2.30 as seen in Your
Tagline:

-- MR/2 2.30

That is NOT any form of MultiMail but a totally different QWK-reader.
I do have MultiMail for OS/2 installed, but rarely use it but I have
tested it.

I was wondering if MultiMail had released a newer version of their
DOS or Windows program, so I looked and saw the latest version shown
on their page was v. 0.49 .

So was I, so I threw out a question about it and was told that there is
no official new version (v0.50) but an unofficial version 0.50 is avail-
ble somewhere.

I looked around some of the pages and saw a message William McBrine
wrote about a newer OS/2 version of MultiMail.

Since MultiMail for OS/2 isn't very important for me, I don't bother.

I have seen You write about being comfortable with the MM version
that You've been using but I thought to write You about the newer
version in case You may want to investigate it for Yourself.

You are mixing apples and pears. MM isn't the same as MR but there is a MUltiMail version for OS/2 and that is the one I have installed but not
using regularly.


GN es CU AGN, Sam, OH0NC

aka Holger


.. "State Of The Art" is technospeak for "unproven"
-- MR/2 2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

04-12-18 09:37 Holger Granholm wrote to Ed Vance about Re: High ASCII
haracters
Howdy! Holger, GM

@MSGID: <5AD07FDD.1853.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
In a message on 04-10-18 Ed Vance said to Holger Granholm:

GE Ed,

That is not true. I can write a text file in PCDOS or OS/2 and read
and printout all those high-ASCII characters from Notepad.

Then, Ed must have a different setting with Notepad, or it won't
show them within MultiMail.

I haven't set any settings in Notepad and don't know if that's
possible.

Re: the OS/2 of MultiMail that You use, MR/2 2.30 as seen in Your
Tagline:

-- MR/2 2.30

That is NOT any form of MultiMail but a totally different QWK-reader.
I do have MultiMail for OS/2 installed, but rarely use it but I have tested it.

Ah!, O.K. , I made a mistake thinking MR/2 was the OS/2 version of MM.
Still learning............ Thanks!.

I was wondering if MultiMail had released a newer version of their
DOS or Windows program, so I looked and saw the latest version shown
on their page was v. 0.49 .

So was I, so I threw out a question about it and was told that there is
no official new version (v0.50) but an unofficial version 0.50 is
avail- ble somewhere.

Thank You for clearing up why I couldn't see MM v0.50 on the Official
MultiMail page.

I looked around some of the pages and saw a message William McBrine
wrote about a newer OS/2 version of MultiMail.

Since MultiMail for OS/2 isn't very important for me, I don't bother.

I have seen You write about being comfortable with the MM version
that You've been using but I thought to write You about the newer
version in case You may want to investigate it for Yourself.

You are mixing apples and pears. MM isn't the same as MR but there is a MUltiMail version for OS/2 and that is the one I have installed but not using regularly.

Yep! I'm guilty of mixing Kenwood gear up with either Clegg or
Central Electronics gear.
I sit corrected. Thanks Again!

73 de Ed W9ODR . .

... Keyboard not found...THINK F1 to Continue.
--- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
* Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)

Ed,

Yep! I'm guilty of mixing Kenwood gear up with either Clegg or
Central Electronics gear.

At least you know Kenmore (from Sears) isn't amateur radio related.


Daryl

===
þ OLX 1.53 þ This tagline is restricted to day VFR use only.
--- SBBSecho 3.04-Win32
* Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)

In a message on 04-10-18 Ed Vance said to Daryl Stout:

Hi Ed,

Then, Ed must have a different setting with Notepad, or it won't show them within MultiMail.

I don't know of any settings in Notepad and I don't know if you can
specify what editor you want to use in MM.

Since my reply yesterday I have checked all versions of Multimail I have
and even installed MMDOS since I didn't have that version installed.

In all versions of MultiMail now known to me you can choose the editor
you want to use. Just edit the file named MMAIL.RC bottom line of the
first page.

OTOH, it may not affect what you read on the screen before you start
replying to a message. But remember: Pressing the 'a' key gives you a
view of ANSI graphics and back to normal press 'q'.


73 de Sam, OH0NC

aka Holger


.. Am I going to die, doctor? Trust me, it's the last thing you'll do.
-- MR/2 2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On 2018 Apr 10 06:58:00, you wrote to Daryl Stout:

I'm wondering if everyone sees the same thing that I see on my screen.
Let Me know. Thanks.

the U+2345 stuff is UNICODE... it is not CP437 which you are used to... CP437 is being forcibly left in the dirt and everything is moving to UNICODE (aka UTF-8)...

the reason you see the differences that you do is because those characters that
you used to make the band aide are not in the same location in UTF-8 as they are in CP437... CP437 is derived from a byte, 8 bits... because of that, CP437 is limited to only 256 characters... UTF-8 is four bytes, 32bits, and has 1112064 code points... not characters... each code point can be a character on its own or it can be combined with other code points to make other characters...

an example would be something like the o with the rooftop (aka circumflex SHIFT-6)... in CP437 you see it as ALT-147... in UTF-8 it is U+00F4... how you would type that on your keyboard, i don't know... the old ALT codes we used to use are going away and all the characters are moving /except/ for the letters and basic symbols...

look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437

i hope you will see the majik... in the chart, you have the character (on top),
the unicode value (in the middle) and the alt value (on the bottom)...

eg: “
00F4
147

i cannot use the ALT codes any more... now, on my linux, i have to use what is known as "composing"... to make this character, i have to use my "compose key" and then the two characters "o" and "^"... they are composed together to make the final “ character... on my system, when reading these messages, i'm forcing
things into CP437 but these characters like this i see as two characters... in this case, the tilde "~" and the capital "S"... i don't see the "o" with the rooftop unless i switch to unicode instead of CP437...

eventually, all of these fancy things like the bandaid and frame characters we're used to seeing in the old DOS CP437 world will be harder to do... especially since much of it is simply being dropped and no one has yet created a convertor to convert these characters to the UTF-8 equivelent... there are a few BBSes doing this conversion in code so the old CP437 style screens can be used... they are actually transmitting the UTF-8 characters instead of the CP437 characters... it would be nice to have a conversion program that does the
same thing and converts the actual screens... the thing is, right now, i don't know how that would affect the ANSI color and cursor positioning codes... probably not but...

hope this helps... i still have to work really hard to wrap my head around it...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Don't get so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2018 Apr 13 09:26:00, you wrote to Holger Granholm:

That is NOT any form of MultiMail but a totally different QWK-reader.
I do have MultiMail for OS/2 installed, but rarely use it but I have
tested it.

Ah!, O.K. , I made a mistake thinking MR/2 was the OS/2 version of MM. Still learning............ Thanks!.

yeah, the multimail one would be MM/2 IIRC...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I'm not a complete idiot...several parts are missing.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

In a message on 04-18-18 mark lewis said to Ed Vance:

Ah!, O.K. , I made a mistake thinking MR/2 was the OS/2 version of MM. Still learning............ Thanks!.

yeah, the multimail one would be MM/2 IIRC...

Wrong! The OS/2 version is named MMOS2..., the dots representing the
version number. The one I have in the BBS is named MMOS2049.ZIP


Have a nice day,

Holger


.. Taglines: More interesting than the garbage above.
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On 2018 Apr 19 10:03:00, you wrote to me:

Ah!, O.K. , I made a mistake thinking MR/2 was the OS/2 version of
MM. Still learning............ Thanks!.

yeah, the multimail one would be MM/2 IIRC...

Wrong! The OS/2 version is named MMOS2..., the dots representing the version number. The one I have in the BBS is named MMOS2049.ZIP

right... i was talking about what would be on the tear line... that's generally
different than the zip file name or what may be hidden behing a control line...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

In a message on 04-22-18 mark lewis said to Holger Granholm:

Good morning Mark,

yeah, the multimail one would be MM/2 IIRC...

Wrong! The OS/2 version is named MMOS2..., the dots representing the version number. The one I have in the BBS is named MMOS2049.ZIP

right... i was talking about what would be on the tear line...
that's generally different than the zip file name or what may be
hidden behing a control line...

There's a saying, "A loved child has many names".

You can say that for MultiMail too. All versions have the MM.EXE and
MM.RC (settings) files but then in the directory it's installed in you
find the MMOS2.TXT, MMDOS.TXT and MMWIN.TXT that are unique for the
different operating systems.


Have a good day,

Holger


.. <Ctrl><Alt><Del> to read the next message
-- MR/2 2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On 2018 Apr 23 09:15:00, you wrote to me:

yeah, the multimail one would be MM/2 IIRC...

Wrong! The OS/2 version is named MMOS2..., the dots representing the
version number. The one I have in the BBS is named MMOS2049.ZIP

right... i was talking about what would be on the tear line...
that's generally different than the zip file name or what may be
hidden behing a control line...

There's a saying, "A loved child has many names".

You can say that for MultiMail too. All versions have the MM.EXE and
MM.RC (settings) files but then in the directory it's installed in you find the MMOS2.TXT, MMDOS.TXT and MMWIN.TXT that are unique for the different operating systems.

but we're not talking about file or product names, holger... we're talking about whatever little signage they may put on the tear line...

.. <Ctrl><Alt><Del> to read the next message
-- MR/2 2.30

like this one above (with two dashes instead of three)... if you were using multimail for OS/2, it could easily be
--- MM/2 some.version.number

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2

and this one from your PCBoard...

* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

that's all that's being said... nothing else... tag line not withstanding... it
was already selected by the program before anything was written ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... My idea of an agreeable person is one who agrees with me. - Benj Disraeli ---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

In a message on 04-25-18 mark lewis said to Holger Granholm:

Good morning Mark,

but we're not talking about file or product names, holger... we're
talking about whatever little signage they may put on the tear
line...

OK, I was talking about the name of the program for different operating systems.

.. <Ctrl><Alt><Del> to read the next message
-- MR/2 2.30

like this one above (with two dashes instead of three)... if you
were using multimail for OS/2, it could easily be
--- MM/2 some.version.number

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2

Anything is possible.

and this one from your PCBoard...

* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

that's all that's being said... nothing else... tag line not withstanding... it was already selected by the program before
anything was written ;)

Correct, the Origin: line is set and permanent until I want to change
it but the tag line I can choose from the file containing a lot of tag
lines although I get an optional tag line suggestion when I start a
reply.


Have a nice day,

Holger


.. Fame is... being known by more people than you know.
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On 2018 Apr 26 09:03:00, you wrote to me:

but we're not talking about file or product names, holger... we're
talking about whatever little signage they may put on the tear
line...

OK, I was talking about the name of the program for different
operating systems.

yup... it took me a minute to see that but we're ok now :)

[...]

that's all that's being said... nothing else... tag line not
withstanding... it was already selected by the program before
anything was written ;)

Correct, the Origin: line is set and permanent until I want to change
it but the tag line I can choose from the file containing a lot of tag lines although I get an optional tag line suggestion when I start a
reply.

ummm... i was talking about my tag line in that post ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Apparently we have crossed two non-insulated wires, again.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

In a message on 04-27-18 mark lewis said to Holger Granholm:

Good morning Mark,

OK, I was talking about the name of the program for different
operating systems.

yup... it took me a minute to see that but we're ok now :)

Yeah.....

Correct, the Origin: line is set and permanent until I want to change

ummm... i was talking about my tag line in that post ;)

... Apparently we have crossed two non-insulated wires, again.

Shit happens ;o)


Have a wonderful day,

Holger


.. Without geometry, life is pointless.
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)