Moondog wrote to ryan <=-

Still pisses me off he got away with it. The Garand complied to all previous laws regarding importation and ownership.

And, it's a beautiful rifle!




... Turn it upside down
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Yep, all true.
I'll still take the old one.

After reading the posts from you both, I am thinking two would be
best... one for regular shooting, and the other for historical
display (and sometimes shooting!). <grin>

Sounds like the perfect solution! ;-)

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.



... Forbidden fruit is responsible for many a bad jam.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: M1
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Tue Jun 02 2020 07:55 am

Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Yep, all true.
I'll still take the old one.

After reading the posts from you both, I am thinking two would be best... one for regular shooting, and the other for historical
display (and sometimes shooting!). <grin>

Sounds like the perfect solution! ;-)

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

... Forbidden fruit is responsible for many a bad jam.

In the mid 1950's when the 7.62x51 nato cartidge came out, it used modern
ball shaped propellants that allowed it to match the performance of the existing .30-06 ammo. New manufactured .30-06 runs at a higher pressure
range and is about 100fps faster than the government loads. There is some surplus ammo made by other countries that fielded the Garand out there, but I haven't looked into it. I have .308 and .30-06 dies and load my own.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

I've read on the interweb that commercial ammo with bullet weights of 150 grains or less (although Hornady has a 168 grain load that is Garand friendly) is suitable for feeding to your Garand. I have purchased quite a bit of M2 equivalent ammo from http://www.ammogarand.com and had good results with it. They are also a good source for bandoleers, en bloc clips, slings and some other odds and ends M1.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-


... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

DUMAS WALKER wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Yep, all true.

I'll still take the old one.

After reading the posts from you both, I am thinking two would be
best... one for regular shooting, and the other for historical display (and sometimes shooting!). <grin>

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without worrying
about something happening to it, while I also admire them for the
history element.

As of RIGHT NOW, I have no interest in the M1, but I can SURELY appreciate
the historical appeal! I'm in the market for an SKS for that very reason.
:-)

And I read an article today about Brownell's M16 Proto - but that's too
much for me to spend. :-)




... Taglines void where prohibited.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Omicron Theta * Memphis, TN * winserver.org

Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

In the mid 1950's when the 7.62x51 nato cartidge came out, it
used modern ball shaped propellants that allowed it to match the performance of the existing .30-06 ammo. New manufactured .30-06
runs at a higher pressure range and is about 100fps faster than
the government loads. There is some surplus ammo made by other
countries that fielded the Garand out there, but I haven't looked
into it. I have .308 and .30-06 dies and load my own.

Nice. I hope to get around to reloading one day... probably not
till I retire though.

I have shot quite a bit of the surplus Greek HXP ammo for the
Garand that the CMP sells. Seems to be good stuff.


... I'll be unstoppable when I get started.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

I've read on the interweb that commercial ammo with bullet
weights of 150 grains or less (although Hornady has a 168 grain
load that is Garand friendly) is suitable for feeding to your
Garand. I have purchased quite a bit of M2 equivalent ammo from http://www.ammogarand.com and had good results with it. They are
also a good source for bandoleers, en bloc clips, slings and some
other odds and ends M1.

Good info, thanks. Wasn't aware of that website but will be
checking it out.

I have shot quite a bit of the surplus Greek HXP ammo that the CMP
sells for the Garand, and it seems to work well.



... Rehab is for quitters.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to DUMAS WALKER <=-

As of RIGHT NOW, I have no interest in the M1, but I can SURELY
appreciate the historical appeal! I'm in the market for an SKS
for that very reason. :-)

SKS's are a lot of fun, and relatively cheap to shoot for fun.

The good thing is that the ammo will also fit the AK-47 when you
get one of those, and the Ruger Mini-30 when you get that. ;-)



... Unregistered taglines subject to confiscation!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: M1
By: Weatherman to Gamgee on Tue Jun 02 2020 11:29 pm

Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

I've read on the interweb that commercial ammo with bullet weights of 150 grains or less (although Hornady has a 168 grain load that is Garand friendl is suitable for feeding to your Garand. I have purchased quite a bit of M2 equivalent ammo from http://www.ammogarand.com and had good results with it. They are also a good source for bandoleers, en bloc clips, slings and some other odds and ends M1.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-

... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960

Bullet weight makes no diffeernce. It's the powder charge that determines the
pressure. 147-150 grain fmj is standard combat bullet, and some allied nations produced tons of it at the mil spec "Garand friendly" pressure.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: M1
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DUMAS WALKER on Tue Jun 02 2020 07:36 am

DUMAS WALKER wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Yep, all true.

I'll still take the old one.

After reading the posts from you both, I am thinking two would be best... one for regular shooting, and the other for historical display (and sometimes shooting!). <grin>

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire them for the history element.

As of RIGHT NOW, I have no interest in the M1, but I can SURELY appreciate the historical appeal! I'm in the market for an SKS for that very reason. :-)

And I read an article today about Brownell's M16 Proto - but that's too
much for me to spend. :-)

... Taglines void where prohibited.

For a little more than a chi-com SKS you could part together an M4 clone
AR15. The barrel is the biggest cost, and sometimes I have found Mossberg bar rels for $100. A rifle can be built for under $500 easily, however this may involve parts made overseas of questionable tolerances and quality.

I like the Brownells retro models as well, but feel their asking prices are a touch on the high side. After the 2012 Middletown shooting, parts in general dried up, and all the cheap retro A1 and A2 receivers and hardware became valauble and dried up as well. My brother bought a surplus Air Force M16
spare parts kit for $349 IIRC all it need was a lower receiver and fire control group. The buffer, buffer spring and bolt carrier group may have been left out too.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: M1
By: Gamgee to Moondog on Wed Jun 03 2020 10:37 am

Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

In the mid 1950's when the 7.62x51 nato cartidge came out, it
used modern ball shaped propellants that allowed it to match the performance of the existing .30-06 ammo. New manufactured .30-06
runs at a higher pressure range and is about 100fps faster than
the government loads. There is some surplus ammo made by other countries that fielded the Garand out there, but I haven't looked
into it. I have .308 and .30-06 dies and load my own.

Nice. I hope to get around to reloading one day... probably not
till I retire though.

I have shot quite a bit of the surplus Greek HXP ammo for the
Garand that the CMP sells. Seems to be good stuff.

... I'll be unstoppable when I get started.

I hear good things about the Greek surplus

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Moondog wrote to Weatherman <=-

Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which
is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

I've read on the interweb that commercial ammo with bullet weights of 150 grains or less (although Hornady has a 168 grain load that is Garand friendl is suitable for feeding to your Garand. I have purchased quite a bit of M2 equivalent ammo from http://www.ammogarand.com and had good results with it. They are also a good source for bandoleers, en bloc clips, slings and some other odds and ends M1.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-

Bullet weight makes no diffeernce. It's the powder charge that determines the
pressure. 147-150 grain fmj is standard combat bullet, and some
allied nations produced tons of it at the mil spec "Garand friendly" pressure.

I see, so the inertial mass makes no difference in the chamber pressure profile nor does the bearing surface of the heavier weight bullet. You've an amazing grasp of physics. Guess all my reloading manuals showing reduced powder loads for heavier weight bullets are no good and should be thrown out the window. As I understand it, the issue is not the actual peak chamber pressure, but rather when it occurs in relation to the bullet's path down the barrel. I shall recognize you as the all-knowing, omniscient god of all things reloading, yet will still defer to the judgement of those who have owned, shot, and loaded for the revered M1 Garand rifle.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-

... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

Re: Re: M1
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jun 07 2020 01:59 am

Moondog wrote to Weatherman <=-

Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

I think that because I would want one I could shoot without
worrying about something happening to it, while I also admire
them for the history element.

Good points. Just as an FYI, they do make special ammo just for
an "original" (or partly original such as one from the CMP), which is slightly less "hot" than current commercial .30-06 ammo. I
don't think there are any safety issues with an older one if you
are careful to use that type of ammo.

I've read on the interweb that commercial ammo with bullet weights of 150 grains or less (although Hornady has a 168 grain load that is Garand frie is suitable for feeding to your Garand. I have purchased quite a bit of equivalent ammo from http://www.ammogarand.com and had good results with They are also a good source for bandoleers, en bloc clips, slings and som other odds and ends M1.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-

Bullet weight makes no diffeernce. It's the powder charge that determines the
pressure. 147-150 grain fmj is standard combat bullet, and some allied nations produced tons of it at the mil spec "Garand friendly" pressure.

I see, so the inertial mass makes no difference in the chamber pressure prof nor does the bearing surface of the heavier weight bullet. You've an amazin grasp of physics. Guess all my reloading manuals showing reduced powder loa for heavier weight bullets are no good and should be thrown out the window. I understand it, the issue is not the actual peak chamber pressure, but rath when it occurs in relation to the bullet's path down the barrel. I shall recognize you as the all-knowing, omniscient god of all things reloading, ye will still defer to the judgement of those who have owned, shot, and loaded the revered M1 Garand rifle.

Regards,
-==*>Weatherman<*==-

... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.

Forgive me for my choice of words.

You are correct in terms of powder speed and initial pressure curve being critical with an M1 gas system. Again, my choice of how pressure was applied wasn't properly phrased.

The point I started with was relying solely on the bullet's weight to
determine if a round was safe to use was a poor decision, as ammo loaded with modern (post WWII) powders may be fine in any other rifle than an M1. The
M1's gas system was designed around using a 147-173 grain proijectile pushed
by a mid range powder such as IMR 4895. I use powders such as IMR 3031 and BL C-2 which would be fine in lighter bullets in a .30-06, however they would be
a bit too fast for an M1. IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 are much better choices.

Even amongst similar speed powders the pressure curve is not equal. The origi nal M16 ran like a top when ran with a powder such as IMR 3031, but when McNamera's whiz kids thought they'd save money by substituting it with a surplus powder from recycled poweder from tearn down ammo (BLC-2
equivalent)the bolt carrier group would cease to unlock. Changing the buffer design resolved it's sensitivity to the pressure curve.

By the way, thank you. I do appreciate the corection.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net